F2P or SUB poll speak your mind

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Originally Posted by Plzbanme

All the gear is balanced with low level and high level. You think players will a lot of gear shell out money but the people that have this gear have been playing for a while and are high skill. And 25 dollars will get you half a set of armor or a low level gun. Their prices for that kind of stuff are high. If you went up against me you would get your *** handed to you on a silver platter, server 3 different ways to Sunday. It is not the gear, it is the in the player. The only reason there are rank is to keep you play and give the reward of leveling up.

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No, the rank is there to restrict free players and to force them into paying insane amounts of cash to unlock better gear earlier, get real. The gear might seem balanced when you compare it one by one, indeed most of those are sidegrades, however when you consider the fact that every gun and armor consists of many parts in that game, and that each and every part has their own stats, you end up constructing guns with some insane firepower and RoF.

Not to mention the fact that last time I checked, the damn robot was beefy as hell, there was no chance against him in 1v1.

And like I've said before-starter gear is only good for pub-stomping, which I hope you're still enjoying. However if you'd run into a player with equal skill, but better, fully customized gear, you'd get decimated, plain and simple. You may say whatever you like, but when skill is matched, the difference in gear decides the outcome(and sometimes luck).

I posted this on another thread, but I think it fits perfectly here as well:


I have NEVER seen a non-sub game to be worthwhile in the long run. The reason B2P and F2P games sound too good to be true is because they ARE!!

The ultimate difference is that MMOs require a lot of constant new content updates in order to stay interesting not become stale and boring. I have never seen a company to be able to provide lots of new frequent content updates without a subscription model.

Even if you look at GW2, - a buy to play game, most people have stopped playing because there is not much to do at the end. And even then, GW2 is not a good game for comparison because it is mostly focused around PvP, while Defiance will have its focus towards cooperative PvE (from what I understand).

Games with a focus on PvE NEED frequent content updates. Yes, playing a game regularly and not having to pay for frequent content sounds awesome. Too bad no company has managed to pull it off yet (developers dont work for free you know).

Even games that have a dual model (either pay optional subscription or pay for DLCs individually) dont have good content updates. For example, The Secret World follows that model and its montly content updates are tiny, at best.

World of Warcraft on the other hand, is releasing a TON of content constantly. I dont even have time to go through everything and they are preparing to release yet another Raid with a ton of bosses. Not to mention many new zones, quests, etc. I dont particulatly like WoW, but with all the B2P and F2P mmo crap that is out there, i dont have many options.

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Originally Posted by deusex2

No, the rank is there to restrict free players and to force them into paying insane amounts of cash to unlock better gear earlier, get real. The gear might seem balanced when you compare it one by one, indeed most of those are sidegrades, however when you consider the fact that every gun and armor consists of many parts in that game, and that each and every part has their own stats, you end up constructing guns with some insane firepower and RoF.

Not to mention the fact that last time I checked, the damn robot was beefy as hell, there was no chance against him in 1v1.

And like I've said before-starter gear is only good for pub-stomping, which I hope you're still enjoying. However if you'd run into a player with equal skill, but better, fully customized gear, you'd get decimated, plain and simple. You may say whatever you like, but when skill is matched, the difference in gear decides the outcome(and sometimes luck).

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The game is free, it isn't going to be like a normal game for mp. The point of a free to play game is to like you try it before letting for put money into, if you want to play free, you can. But they need to make money some where, and for blacklight it is pretty damn fair. Let's say you play 2 hours a day for a week. You earn 125 per round on average, and game last about 10 minutes, and you can get 5 games an hour in. You earn 1250 per day which means you can rent 10 parts for a day or save for later. If you wait to the end of the week, you have 8750, which is enough to prem buy 2-3 parts or rent 5-7 parts for a week. Grants you now have a kickass custom gun. Or you can prem-buy a high grade premade which is made out of top rank parts and there you are on level with the top rank people in terms of gear. The problem here isn't the game, it is you. You have no idea what it takes to make a game, and keep updates going. They make you pay in time and you want to get everything right a way, which is how it works in B2P game. They have to be give somewhere and you just don't want any. And that robot guy, is weak as crap at med to long range, each hero has a best uses distance if you want to fight him in it, go right a head.

Except that every damn lvl1 can unlock everything so long as he pays real cash, which is pretty much p2w. As for robot, he has(or had) highest available armor in-game which wasn't attainable with regular gear, available for everyone. And on top of that, thanks to the legal-wallhack, every player can see each other, so every player decides the conditions of engagement.

On top of that-congrats! you've worked for a week and got yourself a gun, for a week. Now keep working in order to gain enough money to maintain the gun, oh and you can forget about renting any other gear. Now if you want to permanently buy a gun-no problem, but you just have to be max level in order to gain access to all the required parts...And in the meanwhile you have to keep renting premade guns, hoping to somehow save some for that perma-gun.

And then there's gear and all other equipment aside from guns and you have to rent those too, while leveling up and struggling against cash sink, that is rented guns.

Get it now? What you're saying is good and makes sense in theory, in reality you have overcome tons cash sinks or come in terms with the fact that you have to use inferior gear all the way until you level up enough to be able to actually buy the damn parts. Which will take an unreasonable amount of your time. or you can simply pay real money and get it right off the bat.

So yeah, it's a pay2win where you either slave away for your gear or you simply buy it with real money.

I'm willing to give you that Blacklight p2w is the least insulting one from all other p2w rental systems out there, but no matter how you spin it and no matter how much you talk about skill-fact remains it's a p2w game.

And don't give me that "well they have to earn money somehow" crap! There are tons of other ways to do it, without turning the game into p2w. Heck they could've made fortune in cosmetics alone in that game! But no-they have to treat free players as slaves.

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Originally Posted by deusex2

Except that every damn lvl1 can unlock everything so long as he pays real cash, which is pretty much p2w. As for robot, he has(or had) highest available armor in-game which wasn't attainable with regular gear, available for everyone. And on top of that, thanks to the legal-wallhack, every player can see each other, so every player decides the conditions of engagement.

On top of that-congrats! you've worked for a week and got yourself a gun, for a week. Now keep working in order to gain enough money to maintain the gun, oh and you can forget about renting any other gear. Now if you want to permanently buy a gun-no problem, but you just have to be max level in order to gain access to all the required parts...And in the meanwhile you have to keep renting premade guns, hoping to somehow save some for that perma-gun.

And then there's gear and all other equipment aside from guns and you have to rent those too, while leveling up and struggling against cash sink, that is rented guns.

Get it now? What you're saying is good and makes sense in theory, in reality you have overcome tons cash sinks or come in terms with the fact that you have to use inferior gear all the way until you level up enough to be able to actually buy the damn parts. Which will take an unreasonable amount of your time. or you can simply pay real money and get it right off the bat.

So yeah, it's a pay2win where you either slave away for your gear or you simply buy it with real money.

I'm willing to give you that Blacklight p2w is the least insulting one from all other p2w rental systems out there, but no matter how you spin it and no matter how much you talk about skill-fact remains it's a p2w game.

And don't give me that "well they have to earn money somehow" crap! There are tons of other ways to do it, without turning the game into p2w. Heck they could've made fortune in cosmetics alone in that game! But no-they have to treat free players as slaves.

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That armor only applies to the head, if you don't know. You can keep saying it is pay to win but my math say it ain't. I have also done test with friends with balance and it came out that the balance was in fact better than the new CODs. You have no idea how effective or for that matter ineffective cosmetics are at getting money. Less than 1 percent(.06%) of players would buy anything from the store because it isn't helpful in any space or form. They have to make money, cosmetics have never worked for any game, but tf2 and it only works there because you can get money out of the game. Now you can keep saying it is pay to win or you can put some effort in to your gaming or drop some cash.
Now I can see that you just want to fight it out now. So /ignore

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Originally Posted by Plzbanme

That armor only applies to the head, if you don't know. You can keep saying it is pay to win but my math say it ain't. I have also done test with friends with balance and it came out that the balance was in fact better than the new CODs. You have no idea how effective or for that matter ineffective cosmetics are at getting money. Less than 1 percent(.06%) of players would buy anything from the store because it isn't helpful in any space or form. They have to make money, cosmetics have never worked for any game, but tf2 and it only works there because you can get money out of the game. Now you can keep saying it is pay to win or you can put some effort in to your gaming or drop some cash.
Now I can see that you just want to fight it out now. So /ignore

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Oh is that so? I wonder if guys at Riot Games know about it? Damn they better change their f2p model ASAP if they don't want to bankrupt...

Other then that, I'm glad you're ignoring me, because arguing with fanboy like you is pretty pointless, so keep having fun with p2w game.

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Originally Posted by deusex2

Oh is that so? I wonder if guys at Riot Games know about it? Damn they better change their f2p model ASAP if they don't want to bankrupt...

Other then that, I'm glad you're ignoring me, because arguing with fanboy like you is pretty pointless, so keep having fun with p2w game.

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http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wik...f_Legends_Wiki

Except LoL character skins generate a friggin fortune as well. Now please go back to ignoring me.

i'd prefer a sub, for me imo i like that i set it up and can walk away i don't feel like i'm being nickel and dimed by the game i'm trying to play/support. i also don't like the in your face nature of F2P or B2P+CS. Sub mmo's seem much less about the various ways to get money meanwhile the other 2 models are constantly in your face about buy this or buy that.

With every F2P/B2P game i have played in the mmo space (STO, SWTOR, GW2, etc) all you see is cash shop stuff, those with lockboxes are especially bad at this. They keep it in your face with your loot that you should give them money to access your chance at something. Some games are worse than others, STO is worse than GW2 in the lock boxes category but SWTOR easily wins at making you feel like you are second class if you don't sub (so whats the point other than to get money out of subs too).

Overall i like the simplicity of subs. i like how everyone that subs is an equal member of the community. Every update is about the game and adding content and features to it. not flavor of the month cash grab thing. I pay them once a month and everyone can get back to making the game better and we can focus on the game not how the company is going to get its next paycheck.

I play on PC i can't speak to the experiences of console players.

SO just have the game F2P with the ability to SUB. like I said before I play DDO and have always been a prem player i own almost all of the game and earn store points while playing, I have spent like $200.00 +or- and if I would have sub'd I would have paid more and would not own it it would go away when I stop paying but this way I can put money in when I am able to being the only working person in a family of four this model works well for someone like me. Now I do think someone that SUB's should have a bit of an advantage so I am not taking away from it, just don't take away from others this is why I feel that everyone is going F2P in some way so as to not take away from their player base. change is always going to happen.

It's a hard decision. I always preferred the other players in subscription-based games over the other players in free-to-play games and I definitely preferred that everything was always available through ingame means.


On the other hand, with free-to-play you have more freedom to decide when to play. You don't have to worry about paying the 15€ a month although you don't play a single second in that month. You just jump in and out whenever you like. (which also takes away from some of the game feeling, since the community of free-to-play games seems to be less serious about the games)


My last point would be, that I doubt that a subscription based MMO could be very successful in todays world, with all the high quality free-to-play games popping up these days.

Eve Online and World of Warcraft seem to be the only big subscription-based games that are left and successful.
All the others either converted to some form of free to play or are virtually dying.

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Originally Posted by maxztt

It's a hard decision. I always preferred the other players in subscription-based games over the other players in free-to-play games and I definitely preferred that everything was always available through ingame means.


On the other hand, with free-to-play you have more freedom to decide when to play. You don't have to worry about paying the 15€ a month although you don't play a single second in that month. You just jump in and out whenever you like. (which also takes away from some of the game feeling, since the community of free-to-play games seems to be less serious about the games)


My last point would be, that I doubt that a subscription based MMO could be very successful in todays world, with all the high quality free-to-play games popping up these days.

Eve Online and World of Warcraft seem to be the only big subscription-based games that are left and successful.
All the others either converted to some form of free to play or are virtually dying.

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f2p games die extremely fast, because they're nothing mroe then pay to win

WoW I am sorry that you guys have had bad times with F2P games but I have played a lot of F2P and have found that there is good and bad in all game how many sub games have failed people should look at a game for what IT is and not if it is F2P or SUB, open your eyes to the world around you.

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Originally Posted by Thayl Ruttgar

SO just have the game F2P with the ability to SUB.

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Let me explain to you how games with optional Sub work.

Optional Sub also nessecitates that content updates are optional to buy. As such, it is easy to guess that most people will not pay for a Sub or most of the optional content updates.

Since content updates are optional, seven things must ultimately happen:
1) Content updates are kinda of minor and boring because they are optional and cannot be an intergral part of the game.
2) Many people are not going to get them.
3) People who dont experience frequent content updates will eventually get bored and leave.
4) The cost for the development of new content falls increasingly on the small number of Subcriptions.
5) Less funding means smaller and smaller content updates.
6) More people leave due to the lack of new content.
7) Game becomes fully a free to play mess (cash shop with tiny new content updates).

This is not new. Us veteran gamers have seen these thing happen again and again. Sadly, the only AAA MMOs that are able to pull off the necessary frequent content updates which keep people engaged are subscription only MMOs. There is a reason for that and sadly developers do no work for free.

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Originally Posted by Black_wraith

f2p games die extremely fast, because they're nothing mroe then pay to win

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I really wish people would stop perpetuating this ignorance. Not all F2P games are P2W.

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Originally Posted by lycrates

Let me explain to you how games with optional Sub work.

Optional Sub also nessecitates that content updates are optional to buy. As such, it is easy to guess that most people will not pay for a Sub or most of the optional content updates.

Since content updates are optional, seven things must ultimately happen:
1) Content updates are kinda of minor and boring because they are optional and cannot be an intergral part of the game.
2) Many people are not going to get them.
3) People who dont experience frequent content updates will eventually get bored and leave.
4) The cost for the development of new content falls increasingly on the small number of Subcriptions.
5) Less funding means smaller and smaller content updates.
6) More people leave due to the lack of new content.
7) Game becomes fully a free to play mess (cash shop with tiny new content updates).

This is not new. Us veteran gamers have seen these thing happen again and again. Sadly, the only AAA MMOs that are able to pull off the necessary frequent content updates which keep people engaged are subscription only MMOs. There is a reason for that and sadly developers do no work for free.

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Actually, from my experience with DCUO:

1)Mostly true, however some provide optional(and very often OP classes). Those very quickly become mandatory for everyone.

2)True

3)Kinda true, those people get bored with the game itself in general and are bound to leave sooner or later, new content or not. But later on, same kind of people pops in anyway, with no dedication and no intention to stay for long. They're there either to troll people or to kill few hours of their free time before moving on to the next f2p. It's one of reasons why I like p2p-it scares those people away.

4)Well, if the game ends up f2p, it's because of low number of subs and that number doesn't go up when the game turns f2p(especially since subs don't get all that much more for being subs). The game starts earning money on DLCs and other items, being bought by those people that come in, throw away few bucks and leave.

5)Usually, but mostly smaller content updates means that the devs become greedy. Why sell something a whole, when you can sell it piece by piece, for the same price as a whole thing? That's the problem with most of DLCs these days.

6)True, but some leave because they don't like getting ripped-off by DLCs.

7)That happens always, sooner or later, but always with f2p games. For the same reasons stated in #5

Also you've forgotten one more thing:

8)Optional subs/DLCs alienate gaming population. It's like all those fancy new maps that cost 10$ and have nobody playing on those, because very few people actually have that DLC.

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Originally Posted by lycrates

Let me explain to you how games with optional Sub work.

Optional Sub also nessecitates that content updates are optional to buy. As such, it is easy to guess that most people will not pay for a Sub or most of the optional content updates.

Since content updates are optional, seven things must ultimately happen:
1) Content updates are kinda of minor and boring because they are optional and cannot be an intergral part of the game.
2) Many people are not going to get them.
3) People who dont experience frequent content updates will eventually get bored and leave.
4) The cost for the development of new content falls increasingly on the small number of Subcriptions.
5) Less funding means smaller and smaller content updates.
6) More people leave due to the lack of new content.
7) Game becomes fully a free to play mess (cash shop with tiny new content updates).

This is not new. Us veteran gamers have seen these thing happen again and again. Sadly, the only AAA MMOs that are able to pull off the necessary frequent content updates which keep people engaged are subscription only MMOs. There is a reason for that and sadly developers do no work for free.

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There are ways of having optional content without it being mediocre. For instance, using Trion for example, Storm Legion is considered optional for the Rift platform, but I would not call it even remotely mediocre. You can play WoW as any of the previous expansions without the newest ones. You just dont have access to the greatest stuff, the increased level caps, dungeons, etc. SWTOR also has the option of F2P or sub, but with their first expansion not quite out yet, we cant say if it's "optional" or not. They do have a mall system for certain things, that subs get a monthly "allowance" of the premium currency that is given them based on their monthly sub rate.

However, I do prefer subs, dont have to do this thing where I have to play the game for x amount of time just to have access to content that is right in front of my face. I will be playing for x amount of time regardless, to "level up" and get geared, practice, etc. However, I dont want to have to run some sort of time sink scam just to use something for free. Not my style, I will pay what it's worth to show my appreciation for the hard work people have put into making a good product.

I still disagree since like I said before everything is going this way and soon will be the standard I think you need open your eyes to the world and see that change is here and we need to make the most of it instead of make it sound horrible. I am sorry you are so one sided on this and can't see that we need to make it work not the DEV's. So if F2P WE need to buy content WE need to advertise this game and WE need to make it happen.

There are several "free" games I play, some good, some bad, some medium. I dont think "free" games is the change that is needed. What's wrong with currency exchange (paying for a product you want)? It's been done for over 2 thousand years, and seems to work well enough.

Here's the thing, compare what you are proposing to say, a gas(petrol) company. I dont want to pay for fuel anymore, so let's goto Shell, and tell them we aren't gonna pay for fuel by the gallon/litre anymore. However, because we want to use their fuel, we'll sport a sticker on our vehicle, and advertise for them. Also, if they put out merchandise, and maintenance items for our cars, I'll buy my maintenance from them, and whatever other "swag" I feel like getting from them. They will, I garauntee it, laugh you out of their meeting room. This busniess plan does not benefit them. In the online gaming industry, we (as the players/consumers) have a bit more authority than a fossil fuel company. However, it's still a service that requires manpower to run. Funding the manpower takes money. The free to play market is nice, but it's designed to cater to those willing to spend the most on it. ON a balanced, benevolant dev base, the sub is hte BEST way to go, for equality. May not be the most convieniant route, but it's the most equal.

Again I have said I did not start this F2P thing but I do use it and do not think it is going anywhere, to compare online gaming to Fuel is not the same thing something that is luxury or something that is manditory not a comparison. but I do understand what you mean just wrong way to say it. F2P is here and staying if you like it or not look at almost all the SUB based games that started this year where are they now some form of F2P most of which SUCK. I play DDO and other games and do like the way they run it and do like the amount of content they are putting out and being able to get points from play as well as pay for them I play with almost all SUB players and keep up with them so this game is not PAY to WIN. I am sorry but please understand I get what you are saying but it is just not that way anymore so we as the players have to make it work and just PLAY FOR FUN which is what all games should be.

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Originally Posted by Thayl Ruttgar

F2P is here and staying if you like it or not look at almost all the SUB based games that started this year where are they now some form of F2P most of which SUCK.

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Its true that a lot of Subscription games of 2011 and 2012 sucked big time. The reason was not the subscription model though. It was because those games were nowhere near Primetime quality.
Lets look at them really quick:

Tera: Combat and graphics where excellent. Beyond that there was nothing there. It was so bad, that I would have to call that game a "money-rab" instead of a real and complete game.

SWTOR: Released with terrible bugs and missing key features. It was also created using the cheap "Hero" engine. Ultimately it was just a lower quality version of WoW so it was no suprise that it went F2P

The Secret World: Not a polished game (not by a long shot) and nowhere near ready for primetime. I kinda of feel sad for them because Funcom really put a lot of love into making it.

Overall all the new MMORPGs for 2011/2012 where all a huge disappointent. At this point I am pretty sure that their business model from the very beginning was the following:

1) Invest barely enough for an incomplete, unpolished game.
2) Hype it up.
3) Recover the investment and make a profit from selling the boxed game.
4) Charge a Subscription.
6) Fire almost all developers, but maintain a skeletal development team to periodically release small content patches in order to string customers along as long as possible.
5) After most suckers..err.. customers leave, turn the game into F2P and continue milking it until it dies.
6) Rince and repeat.

I think that is a fair description of the laterst MMO models. Great for the companies, terrible for the gamers. Only Rift and WoW have been different, but now I hear that Rift has fired almost all of its development team casting doupts into the quality of future updates.

I hope Defiance will be different, but the nature of the payment model will dictate if this is a game that Trion Worlds shows an interest in investing for the long haul or to just cash in and move on.

I think the largest problem in MMO's lately, is that they push for a xmas release, doing alot of hype there and launching an incomplete game just to meet a deadline for xmas. Trion hasnt ever bought into holiday hype and the result is devs that arent fried out in coding around the clock during an already stressful holiday season.

F2P is a great modal, dont get me wrong, but Subs arent obsolete either, and therefore, dont need ALL games to reformat to a F2P system. My main point (comparing gas to game wasnt the best, but I was cooking dinner, so slightly distracted) is that subs keep everyone having an equal shot at greatness. Dont make a marketting system where someone that never leaves their beanbag in front of their xbox/ps3/pc and is the ayatolla of all shooters the ones that profit the most from a f2p system. Or, alternately, someone that drops the price of a new house into the game and it's mall system, the one no-one knows, but cant touch because of teh glowy boomstick of leet walletness they possess. (extreme scenarios, but you KNOW where I'm coming from on this).

I agree, 2011-2012 MMOs were all sorts of floppy. Defiance is a compeletly differant machine, Trion has a good track record of free AND paid for games (altho short list), and we even have a hybrid model mentioned for defiance. It was said that the game is a luxury. All luxuries I've ever experianced were paid for, either by myself, or someone else, but never by the person(s) providing the luxury (unless you count a demo).

OK Now I am with you I understand that a SUB might make money right off the start but I still think that a F2P model will sutain the game better in todays economy. Take me for instance I work two jobs and some work on the side when ever I can. I work my main job in our local ER and a second job at one of the plants around town as a Security/EMT I make enough money for myself, my wife and two children and I am more than happy to buy content and other store items but a SUB just does not work for me. I am sure I am not the only one this will effect and some that can SUB can also buy content so keep the numbers high I say.

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Originally Posted by Thayl Ruttgar

OK Now I am with you I understand that a SUB might make money right off the start but I still think that a F2P model will sutain the game better in todays economy. Take me for instance I work two jobs and some work on the side when ever I can. I work my main job in our local ER and a second job at one of the plants around town as a Security/EMT I make enough money for myself, my wife and two children and I am more than happy to buy content and other store items but a SUB just does not work for me. I am sure I am not the only one this will effect and some that can SUB can also buy content so keep the numbers high I say.

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Man that's a lot of work! out of curiosity how much do you spend monthly on f2p games?

Most of the time not much like I said I do work but the way my schedule works makes it better you would have to know my schedule to understand but I put in when I can.

F2P there is no free it seems that the serious gamers will get nickle and dime so they can enjoy the game in its entirety. I would like SUB and I get the all the bells and whistle that goes with it. But if both is to exist hopefully SUB have all access to events and activities and F2P limited.

If I have to break out my credit credit every time to keep up with the events and activities, defiance will be a short lived experience for me.

I really think think they should look at DDO's model that would great. everyone should check it out and talk to players on there that do both.

heres an option go buy to play and have a cash shop, this way you avoid the spammers and somewhat negate hackers by making it more pricey when they get banned while drawing in the f2p crowd by having that one time basic price and cash shop. If thats not your cup of tea then go subscription but be warned most sub games iv seen are struggling nowadays so it may be a bad idea.


You have to weight the options

F2P:

pro's:

- High starter playerbase
- Usually easy to pick up and play
- Game usually has a longevity

Cons:

- hackers plague these games as theres no way to keep them out
- they can fail if the cash shop items are useless or too highly priced
- the lack of starter funds because the game is initially free can make updates or expansions take awhile to come out


B2P (w/ cashshop)

Pro's:

- High starter playerbase
- Usually easy to pick up and play
- Game usually has a longevity
- the starter money gives the producer and devs alittle breathing room
- The initial price deters some of the hardcore hacking you see in f2p games

Cons:

- they can fail if the cash shop items are useless or too highly priced
- the f2p diehards of videogames hate paying for games and may revolt



Sub's

Pro's:

- buy the game and the sub and you get all content
- usually with this type of game hacking is minimal
- when a game is in its early stages this allows devs/producers the largest amount of breathing room

Cons:

- high base price for the average user especially console users (xbl + monthly fee + base game cost)
- Sub based games lately have taken a downward spiral and most seem to be going f2p or bankrupt

My money is on buy to play it has the best of both worlds

one other thing id like to add in, Planetside 2 is a F2p game is being to suffer from population issues. So its pretty safe to say none of these will work in the long run. both ideas will kill the game one slow one quick.

In my opinion, I would safely suggest the Buy to Play model with an optional subscription fee would be the most ideal. A subscription could increase exp gain, in-game currency and possibly even add monthly funds of cash shop currency for the subscriber. I would also suggest a Lifetime subscription to be made available for those who really enjoy the game.

The main reason to utilize the Buy to Play model is due to various console players (mainly the 360 users) already having to subscribe to even utilize the online services of said consoles. Having an additional subscription fee to play the game may cause console gamers to think twice about purchasing the game.

Secondly, I would say the overall Guild Wars style model has been working out a lot better for the companies switching to it. The company can acquire initial funds from customers purchasing the game and the cash shop increases the income based on the sustained player base.

To me, required subscription fees ideally work, but they also may have a minor psychological effect on customers. These subscriptions fees can cause people to feel like they need to play the game for a large amount of hours during the subscription time, otherwise they feel they wasted money. Overall, the longevity of a game's life is based on sustaining a player base.

Required subscription fees can negate the sustainability of a large player base by causing burnouts for a portion of the player base. Many players will easily burn out on the content, get bored and remove his or her subscription before the first month's paid subscription timer is up. Those fees also do not cater as much to casual players as much since a majority of casual players tend to have a limited amount of time to enjoy a game. I am fairly positive that a large majority of casual gamers enjoy their video games but shun the idea of paying $10-15 a month for a game they can only play at an average of an hour a day.

Sidenote: Someone mentioned The Secret World earlier in this thread. The Secret World seems to me that it is actually thriving more now that it went into the Buy to Play model. I log in and I now see a large community of players in that game on the various servers I have characters on rather than it being somewhat deserted. I personally have a lifetime subscription to TSW due to the fact that I like the type of mythological lore they added into the game through various means.

It'll likely be B2P w/ cash shop and DLC packs. You're not gonna get console players to pay monthly subs.

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Originally Posted by Swag

It'll likely be B2P w/ cash shop and DLC packs. You're not gonna get console players to pay monthly subs.

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Unfortunately, I am pretty sure you are right. If this was a subscription game, Trion would have released that information already. When you make a subscription game you have to build it around that concept, it is not something you can do last minute.

I think its too bad. From my experience, non-subscription games do not have large content updates and they always seem to die off after 6-12 months. Also, having optional DLCs also means that new content is going to be very secondary in nature and not integral to the game, which is a shame.

I think Defiance will be like Guild Wars 2: Lots of people playing it in the first few months and then moving on because there is little new engame progression content. I am definately going to playing it. I was just hoping for a more long-term subscription game with lots of frequent new content to keep us busy.

I am also looking for a game that I can play for a while. I hope they have enough content at launch to really make the game last. Nothing worst than a game high on promises but low on content so the game launch looks more like a beta.

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Originally Posted by Nucleotides

I am also looking for a game that I can play for a while. I hope they have enough content at launch to really make the game last. Nothing worst than a game high on promises but low on content so the game launch looks more like a beta.

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yea me too if theres a lot of things to do (fun instances not guild wars2 instances, open world bosses, crafting, pvp,) paying won't be a problem

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Originally Posted by wee

yea me too if theres a lot of things to do (fun instances not guild wars2 instances, open world bosses, crafting, pvp,) paying won't be a problem

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Lol I did the very first one you can while leveling and havent been back. I only do wvw at this point and praying for VB to choose me. I don't think a lot of things are going to be instances in this game. It really seems like they want you to pvp while you do anything but we will see what they decide. Just need to not make the "classic" MMO mistake of not having endgame at launch.