On free to play

I thought I should start this off with a video on a free to play game called firefall.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpBiNHPfjKw

The market for free to play game is starting to change from pay to win to play to win. Games like Team Fortress 2, Blacklight and Firefall for one are really showing that free to play is truly good for every one. One of the best parts of free to play is that you can just come with out having to spend money on a game that you may not like. This mean there is no wall between the devs and potential pay customers, and studies have soon that when a player starts to buy stuff on the market they are very like to keep on buying and this could mean big bucks out of each player more than 60 if they play long enough.

Now pay to win has harmed the name of free to play and free to play game don't have to be pay to win in order to make money. All pay to win games in up doing the same thing, selling power which is unacceptable. Item of power include but are not limited to exp increase(you buy 1000 exp), weapons which free players can't get their hands on in a reasonable amount of time. Armor can be the same way as weapons too or buying super ammo. Now there are items that can be sold in market, exp boost(you gain 15% more exp), cosmetic items are a good sell too! Basically anything that saves you time or makes you look good. I believe defiance would make a great free to play game if it is done right. Also player must have access to all areas, and not put into their own little area, mix free and paying members.

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Originally Posted by Plzbanme

I thought I should start this off with a video on a free to play game called firefall.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpBiNHPfjKw

The market for free to play game is starting to change from pay to win to play to win. Games like Team Fortress 2, Blacklight and Firefall for one are really showing that free to play is truly good for every one. One of the best parts of free to play is that you can just come with out having to spend money on a game that you may not like. This mean there is no wall between the devs and potential pay customers, and studies have soon that when a player starts to buy stuff on the market they are very like to keep on buying and this could mean big bucks out of each player more than 60 if they play long enough.

Now pay to win has harmed the name of free to play and free to play game don't have to be pay to win in order to make money. All pay to win games in up doing the same thing, selling power which is unacceptable. Item of power include but are not limited to exp increase(you buy 1000 exp), weapons which free players can't get their hands on in a reasonable amount of time. Armor can be the same way as weapons too or buying super ammo. Now there are items that can be sold in market, exp boost(you gain 15% more exp), cosmetic items are a good sell too! Basically anything that saves you time or makes you look good. I believe defiance would make a great free to play game if it is done right. Also player must have access to all areas, and not put into their own little area, mix free and paying members.

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But free 2 play has horrible mechanics. I've played the Firefall beta and holy crap is it repetitive. I have disliked subscriptions but I rue f2p and especially p2w. I don't have to explain p2w since everyone knows where that road leads. However the reason f2p doesn't work is that the gameplay can never compare to a subscription game. A subscription game will always hold the highest refinement in any MMO. But now b2p is gaining popularity In the gaming industry. B2P I feel is the way to go. It allows an enormous set of income in the start and allows intervals of money to come at the time developers need it most(Expansions). As well players don't need to pay for an extensive fee of $15 a month. Finally, you do know its set in stone that Defiance is going for a B2P or sub format right?

First of Firefall is still in beta stages, so it's too early to judge weather or not it's doing fine, despite being f2p.

Second, Firefall's PvP is allegedly designed for esports(just like Team Fortress1/2) so there supposed to be balance and skill based combat. Whereas Defiance is not designed for e-sports, so there are plenty of ways this could get wrong right off the bat.

Thirdly, "if done right..." Well it's harder than it seems, especially with companies getting greedier and greedier, although yeah. I agree that having only cosmetics/xp/cash-boosters in the item shop is a good model. Problem is-it's never only that. It always ends up being more and more crap. I mean look at PS2-it's basically pay2win.

P.S. Yeah, I've played Firefall Beta and there was nothing to do other than gathering resources for craft and pvp.

Firefall is fun, yes. Yes, it's free, yes there's boosters you can purchase to help support the game. It has a closed sandbox feel to it, the graphics are not on par with defiance (altho still good). The PRIMARY focus of Firefall is pvp. Defiance focuses on feel and immersion, without losing pixel perfect shooting. Firefall has major balancing issues between their battleframes. Firefall has a total of 3 roles, with a differant way of tailoring those roles. Firefall has a major lack of weapon options. Defiance has full range of weapon options, as well as customizations.

Firefall does not have an open pvp option. Defiance does. Firefall requires LOTS of hours of gameplay to progress just a small amount. Defiance has a larger "curve" so you are progressing faster, without hitting the "cap" too soon.

Gameplay wise: In Firefall, each battleframe has about 3 abilities you use, with about 7 to choose from. Defiance has almost 30-40 abilities to choose from after you put in the same play hours as firefall, with about 4-5 abilities in the field.

Firefall has 7 encounters (so far), the bugs, the chosen squads, chosen mechs, chosen ships, elemental effects (twister), broken thumpers, and the melding. Defiance has... tons more (cant even think of a spot to start with).

Dont get me wrong, I love firefall, I will be playing it (I still do in beta), but defiance is where I will throw my money, be it via a sub, or micro transactions, or both.

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Originally Posted by Paladin

But free 2 play has horrible mechanics. I've played the Firefall beta and holy crap is it repetitive. I have disliked subscriptions but I rue f2p and especially p2w. I don't have to explain p2w since everyone knows where that road leads. However the reason f2p doesn't work is that the gameplay can never compare to a subscription game. A subscription game will always hold the highest refinement in any MMO. But now b2p is gaining popularity In the gaming industry. B2P I feel is the way to go. It allows an enormous set of income in the start and allows intervals of money to come at the time developers need it most(Expansions). As well players don't need to pay for an extensive fee of $15 a month. Finally, you do know its set in stone that Defiance is going for a B2P or sub format right?

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Free to play has little to do with the mechanics of gameplay, it only effect game play but changing the pace at which you do it at, and the max money you can get out of each player. Blacklight is the best in terms of store for free to play. You can rent a part for a day after one or two, ten minute games. I mean look at that game and say something bad about in terms of looks or options, heck it is a better game than COD. You say b2p is gaining popularity but you see it was the whole market up until about half a dozen years ago, Free 2 play is moving in and is here to stay. And nothing is written stone, a game like this could have people coming on the in the tens of thousands on launch day if they went free to play and not pay to win.

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Originally Posted by Shadinaxx

Firefall is fun, yes. Yes, it's free, yes there's boosters you can purchase to help support the game. It has a closed sandbox feel to it, the graphics are not on par with defiance (altho still good). The PRIMARY focus of Firefall is pvp. Defiance focuses on feel and immersion, without losing pixel perfect shooting. Firefall has major balancing issues between their battleframes. Firefall has a total of 3 roles, with a differant way of tailoring those roles. Firefall has a major lack of weapon options. Defiance has full range of weapon options, as well as customizations.

Firefall does not have an open pvp option. Defiance does. Firefall requires LOTS of hours of gameplay to progress just a small amount. Defiance has a larger "curve" so you are progressing faster, without hitting the "cap" too soon.

Gameplay wise: In Firefall, each battleframe has about 3 abilities you use, with about 7 to choose from. Defiance has almost 30-40 abilities to choose from after you put in the same play hours as firefall, with about 4-5 abilities in the field.

Firefall has 7 encounters (so far), the bugs, the chosen squads, chosen mechs, chosen ships, elemental effects (twister), broken thumpers, and the melding. Defiance has... tons more (cant even think of a spot to start with).

Dont get me wrong, I love firefall, I will be playing it (I still do in beta), but defiance is where I will throw my money, be it via a sub, or micro transactions, or both.

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Firefall is still being made and they made it in sections, they just finished up the PvP stuff to a good point and now they are working on PvE. The Devs have said they want to have it equal parts PvP and PvE in order to get as many people playing as possible.

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Originally Posted by Plzbanme

Free to play has little to do with the mechanics of gameplay, it only effect game play but changing the pace at which you do it at, and the max money you can get out of each player. Blacklight is the best in terms of store for free to play....And nothing is written stone, a game like this could have people coming on the in the tens of thousands on launch day if they went free to play and not pay to win.

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Actually yes it does, the income directly affect the tools used to create a game. During Anime Expo 2012 the developers behind Firefall went and had this huge truck to give people a chance at the beta. I asked them about how difficult it is to make a game in par with other MMOS like WoW which use a sub system. They said that it really is a challenge because of the limits of their resources, but that's why they use a f2p system because they don't have the money to create a game that would warrant a sub. Bringing subscription in allows a game to be created and refined over and over again. This can be seen in WoW where the system kept on evolving even though the nostalgic hated the new systems-_-. But what I do agree with you is that subs scare away many players that's why a b2p is the better option. Also I really hope your wrong on that last part because then I wasted $100 on defiance limited edition for nothing:P

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Originally Posted by Paladin

Actually yes it does, the income directly affect the tools used to create a game. During Anime Expo 2012 the developers behind Firefall went and had this huge truck to give people a chance at the beta. I asked them about how difficult it is to make a game in par with other MMOS like WoW which use a sub system. They said that it really is a challenge because of the limits of their resources, but that's why they use a f2p system because they don't have the money to create a game that would warrant a sub. Bringing subscription in allows a game to be created and refined over and over again. This can be seen in WoW where the system kept on evolving even though the nostalgic hated the new systems-_-. But what I do agree with you is that subs scare away many players that's why a b2p is the better option. Also I really hope your wrong on that last part because then I wasted $100 on defiance limited edition for nothing:P

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I am going to need a source for this, need for my research stuff page.

I'm all for f2p and b2p games. I don't like subscription games all that much. Especially tiered subscription such the system used for Sony's games. They separate their player between those who can spend money and those who don't are cannot pay money. Nothing worse then gathering friends to do an some events together and find out they're not allowed to join you because they don't have the premium membership or vise versa.

The biggest problem I see with f2p is that companies tend to turn to pay to win style items in their cash shops to keep profits going. While f2p is growing and can work, I agree that buying the initial game and large expansions are a good way to ensure the game companies can control a steady profit margin while keeping the game from becoming a pay to win cash fest that so many people hate.

I'm all for b2p games as long as their is some sort of demo/trial. I do not like to cough up money for a game until I've decide if the game is even worth playing. The only problem I have is not all my friends can join me in playing the game. Not everyone has extra money to spend. That's the plus to f2p games.

Does anyone actually have any knowledge if Trion's actually going for F2P or Sub?

Important for me (although will prob give it a go anyway... depending on beta)

F2P is the biggest misconception in the gaming world. It's not there to help the players. F2P was made because companies like Zynga realized people are stupid and will buy small items, more often, equaling a larger total purchase. It is only a better value if a player spends no money, and if they spend no money they shouldn't be playing the game in the first place IMO.

With Defiance you can clearly see that SyFy has a LOT invested in this game. Not only is it going to tie into the show, but the quality of the game is well above the F2P model.

The only people who advocate for F2P, are the people who can't afford to play in the first place. They want whales, people like myself who are willing to spend money on a game, to fund the game for them while they get to play for free. This game needs a sub. At worst it needs to be B2P, buy 2 play like GW2 (and even that game could of been so much better had it had a sub focus).

I was impressed with Trion as a company when it came to Rift. Seeing what they have done with this game just puts them in MMO god status.