On free to play

I thought I should start this off with a video on a free to play game called firefall.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpBiNHPfjKw

The market for free to play game is starting to change from pay to win to play to win. Games like Team Fortress 2, Blacklight and Firefall for one are really showing that free to play is truly good for every one. One of the best parts of free to play is that you can just come with out having to spend money on a game that you may not like. This mean there is no wall between the devs and potential pay customers, and studies have soon that when a player starts to buy stuff on the market they are very like to keep on buying and this could mean big bucks out of each player more than 60 if they play long enough.

Now pay to win has harmed the name of free to play and free to play game don't have to be pay to win in order to make money. All pay to win games in up doing the same thing, selling power which is unacceptable. Item of power include but are not limited to exp increase(you buy 1000 exp), weapons which free players can't get their hands on in a reasonable amount of time. Armor can be the same way as weapons too or buying super ammo. Now there are items that can be sold in market, exp boost(you gain 15% more exp), cosmetic items are a good sell too! Basically anything that saves you time or makes you look good. I believe defiance would make a great free to play game if it is done right. Also player must have access to all areas, and not put into their own little area, mix free and paying members.

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Originally Posted by Plzbanme

I thought I should start this off with a video on a free to play game called firefall.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpBiNHPfjKw

The market for free to play game is starting to change from pay to win to play to win. Games like Team Fortress 2, Blacklight and Firefall for one are really showing that free to play is truly good for every one. One of the best parts of free to play is that you can just come with out having to spend money on a game that you may not like. This mean there is no wall between the devs and potential pay customers, and studies have soon that when a player starts to buy stuff on the market they are very like to keep on buying and this could mean big bucks out of each player more than 60 if they play long enough.

Now pay to win has harmed the name of free to play and free to play game don't have to be pay to win in order to make money. All pay to win games in up doing the same thing, selling power which is unacceptable. Item of power include but are not limited to exp increase(you buy 1000 exp), weapons which free players can't get their hands on in a reasonable amount of time. Armor can be the same way as weapons too or buying super ammo. Now there are items that can be sold in market, exp boost(you gain 15% more exp), cosmetic items are a good sell too! Basically anything that saves you time or makes you look good. I believe defiance would make a great free to play game if it is done right. Also player must have access to all areas, and not put into their own little area, mix free and paying members.

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But free 2 play has horrible mechanics. I've played the Firefall beta and holy crap is it repetitive. I have disliked subscriptions but I rue f2p and especially p2w. I don't have to explain p2w since everyone knows where that road leads. However the reason f2p doesn't work is that the gameplay can never compare to a subscription game. A subscription game will always hold the highest refinement in any MMO. But now b2p is gaining popularity In the gaming industry. B2P I feel is the way to go. It allows an enormous set of income in the start and allows intervals of money to come at the time developers need it most(Expansions). As well players don't need to pay for an extensive fee of $15 a month. Finally, you do know its set in stone that Defiance is going for a B2P or sub format right?

First of Firefall is still in beta stages, so it's too early to judge weather or not it's doing fine, despite being f2p.

Second, Firefall's PvP is allegedly designed for esports(just like Team Fortress1/2) so there supposed to be balance and skill based combat. Whereas Defiance is not designed for e-sports, so there are plenty of ways this could get wrong right off the bat.

Thirdly, "if done right..." Well it's harder than it seems, especially with companies getting greedier and greedier, although yeah. I agree that having only cosmetics/xp/cash-boosters in the item shop is a good model. Problem is-it's never only that. It always ends up being more and more crap. I mean look at PS2-it's basically pay2win.

P.S. Yeah, I've played Firefall Beta and there was nothing to do other than gathering resources for craft and pvp.

Firefall is fun, yes. Yes, it's free, yes there's boosters you can purchase to help support the game. It has a closed sandbox feel to it, the graphics are not on par with defiance (altho still good). The PRIMARY focus of Firefall is pvp. Defiance focuses on feel and immersion, without losing pixel perfect shooting. Firefall has major balancing issues between their battleframes. Firefall has a total of 3 roles, with a differant way of tailoring those roles. Firefall has a major lack of weapon options. Defiance has full range of weapon options, as well as customizations.

Firefall does not have an open pvp option. Defiance does. Firefall requires LOTS of hours of gameplay to progress just a small amount. Defiance has a larger "curve" so you are progressing faster, without hitting the "cap" too soon.

Gameplay wise: In Firefall, each battleframe has about 3 abilities you use, with about 7 to choose from. Defiance has almost 30-40 abilities to choose from after you put in the same play hours as firefall, with about 4-5 abilities in the field.

Firefall has 7 encounters (so far), the bugs, the chosen squads, chosen mechs, chosen ships, elemental effects (twister), broken thumpers, and the melding. Defiance has... tons more (cant even think of a spot to start with).

Dont get me wrong, I love firefall, I will be playing it (I still do in beta), but defiance is where I will throw my money, be it via a sub, or micro transactions, or both.

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Originally Posted by Paladin

But free 2 play has horrible mechanics. I've played the Firefall beta and holy crap is it repetitive. I have disliked subscriptions but I rue f2p and especially p2w. I don't have to explain p2w since everyone knows where that road leads. However the reason f2p doesn't work is that the gameplay can never compare to a subscription game. A subscription game will always hold the highest refinement in any MMO. But now b2p is gaining popularity In the gaming industry. B2P I feel is the way to go. It allows an enormous set of income in the start and allows intervals of money to come at the time developers need it most(Expansions). As well players don't need to pay for an extensive fee of $15 a month. Finally, you do know its set in stone that Defiance is going for a B2P or sub format right?

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Free to play has little to do with the mechanics of gameplay, it only effect game play but changing the pace at which you do it at, and the max money you can get out of each player. Blacklight is the best in terms of store for free to play. You can rent a part for a day after one or two, ten minute games. I mean look at that game and say something bad about in terms of looks or options, heck it is a better game than COD. You say b2p is gaining popularity but you see it was the whole market up until about half a dozen years ago, Free 2 play is moving in and is here to stay. And nothing is written stone, a game like this could have people coming on the in the tens of thousands on launch day if they went free to play and not pay to win.

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Originally Posted by Shadinaxx

Firefall is fun, yes. Yes, it's free, yes there's boosters you can purchase to help support the game. It has a closed sandbox feel to it, the graphics are not on par with defiance (altho still good). The PRIMARY focus of Firefall is pvp. Defiance focuses on feel and immersion, without losing pixel perfect shooting. Firefall has major balancing issues between their battleframes. Firefall has a total of 3 roles, with a differant way of tailoring those roles. Firefall has a major lack of weapon options. Defiance has full range of weapon options, as well as customizations.

Firefall does not have an open pvp option. Defiance does. Firefall requires LOTS of hours of gameplay to progress just a small amount. Defiance has a larger "curve" so you are progressing faster, without hitting the "cap" too soon.

Gameplay wise: In Firefall, each battleframe has about 3 abilities you use, with about 7 to choose from. Defiance has almost 30-40 abilities to choose from after you put in the same play hours as firefall, with about 4-5 abilities in the field.

Firefall has 7 encounters (so far), the bugs, the chosen squads, chosen mechs, chosen ships, elemental effects (twister), broken thumpers, and the melding. Defiance has... tons more (cant even think of a spot to start with).

Dont get me wrong, I love firefall, I will be playing it (I still do in beta), but defiance is where I will throw my money, be it via a sub, or micro transactions, or both.

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Firefall is still being made and they made it in sections, they just finished up the PvP stuff to a good point and now they are working on PvE. The Devs have said they want to have it equal parts PvP and PvE in order to get as many people playing as possible.

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Originally Posted by Plzbanme

Free to play has little to do with the mechanics of gameplay, it only effect game play but changing the pace at which you do it at, and the max money you can get out of each player. Blacklight is the best in terms of store for free to play....And nothing is written stone, a game like this could have people coming on the in the tens of thousands on launch day if they went free to play and not pay to win.

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Actually yes it does, the income directly affect the tools used to create a game. During Anime Expo 2012 the developers behind Firefall went and had this huge truck to give people a chance at the beta. I asked them about how difficult it is to make a game in par with other MMOS like WoW which use a sub system. They said that it really is a challenge because of the limits of their resources, but that's why they use a f2p system because they don't have the money to create a game that would warrant a sub. Bringing subscription in allows a game to be created and refined over and over again. This can be seen in WoW where the system kept on evolving even though the nostalgic hated the new systems-_-. But what I do agree with you is that subs scare away many players that's why a b2p is the better option. Also I really hope your wrong on that last part because then I wasted $100 on defiance limited edition for nothing:P

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Originally Posted by Paladin

Actually yes it does, the income directly affect the tools used to create a game. During Anime Expo 2012 the developers behind Firefall went and had this huge truck to give people a chance at the beta. I asked them about how difficult it is to make a game in par with other MMOS like WoW which use a sub system. They said that it really is a challenge because of the limits of their resources, but that's why they use a f2p system because they don't have the money to create a game that would warrant a sub. Bringing subscription in allows a game to be created and refined over and over again. This can be seen in WoW where the system kept on evolving even though the nostalgic hated the new systems-_-. But what I do agree with you is that subs scare away many players that's why a b2p is the better option. Also I really hope your wrong on that last part because then I wasted $100 on defiance limited edition for nothing:P

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I am going to need a source for this, need for my research stuff page.

I'm all for f2p and b2p games. I don't like subscription games all that much. Especially tiered subscription such the system used for Sony's games. They separate their player between those who can spend money and those who don't are cannot pay money. Nothing worse then gathering friends to do an some events together and find out they're not allowed to join you because they don't have the premium membership or vise versa.

The biggest problem I see with f2p is that companies tend to turn to pay to win style items in their cash shops to keep profits going. While f2p is growing and can work, I agree that buying the initial game and large expansions are a good way to ensure the game companies can control a steady profit margin while keeping the game from becoming a pay to win cash fest that so many people hate.

I'm all for b2p games as long as their is some sort of demo/trial. I do not like to cough up money for a game until I've decide if the game is even worth playing. The only problem I have is not all my friends can join me in playing the game. Not everyone has extra money to spend. That's the plus to f2p games.

Does anyone actually have any knowledge if Trion's actually going for F2P or Sub?

Important for me (although will prob give it a go anyway... depending on beta)

F2P is the biggest misconception in the gaming world. It's not there to help the players. F2P was made because companies like Zynga realized people are stupid and will buy small items, more often, equaling a larger total purchase. It is only a better value if a player spends no money, and if they spend no money they shouldn't be playing the game in the first place IMO.

With Defiance you can clearly see that SyFy has a LOT invested in this game. Not only is it going to tie into the show, but the quality of the game is well above the F2P model.

The only people who advocate for F2P, are the people who can't afford to play in the first place. They want whales, people like myself who are willing to spend money on a game, to fund the game for them while they get to play for free. This game needs a sub. At worst it needs to be B2P, buy 2 play like GW2 (and even that game could of been so much better had it had a sub focus).

I was impressed with Trion as a company when it came to Rift. Seeing what they have done with this game just puts them in MMO god status.

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Originally Posted by Khola

Does anyone actually have any knowledge if Trion's actually going for F2P or Sub?

Important for me (although will prob give it a go anyway... depending on beta)

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Officially, it's undecided, however the devs lean to buy-2-play+DLCs or sub kind of model, like DDO, DCUO, TSW currently have. And considering the fact that Gamestop already accepts money for Defiance pre-orders, I believe that this is exactly what the devs are doing.

Personally, I can only hope they'd change their mind and give p2p a try. Or at least make b2p with no goddarned DLCs(seriously, those are nothing but a rip-off).

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Retsopmi

F2P is the biggest misconception in the gaming world. It's not there to help the players. F2P was made because companies like Zynga realized people are stupid and will buy small items, more often, equaling a larger total purchase. It is only a better value if a player spends no money, and if they spend no money they shouldn't be playing the game in the first place IMO.

With Defiance you can clearly see that SyFy has a LOT invested in this game. Not only is it going to tie into the show, but the quality of the game is well above the F2P model.

The only people who advocate for F2P, are the people who can't afford to play in the first place. They want whales, people like myself who are willing to spend money on a game, to fund the game for them while they get to play for free. This game needs a sub. At worst it needs to be B2P, buy 2 play like GW2 (and even that game could of been so much better had it had a sub focus).

I was impressed with Trion as a company when it came to Rift. Seeing what they have done with this game just puts them in MMO god status.

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Preach it, brother.

In an interview Trion said that they are looking to a BOX product, so it will be atlest B2P, the doubt is in the sub.

And at the start of this Thread, it looks more like a pub for firefall, that, to try to make a point.

I will make a point, firefall is free to play, and you can see it on the game play. You have a fiu weapons per Bframes, so its simpler to balance, but they are not balanced. I started beta on firefall 8 months ago. I saw the game move and change, but not the wai i wanted, so i stoped. RED5 was copying motch of what the other games where doing and got far from what they first said firefall would be. And i dont fink firefall will be a good esport. Some of the Bframes dont do motch in pvp and the maps are not very challenging (tactics). Regarding the beta state of the game, they can say its on beta, but its just to justify that the game is not finish, as they said that up to the and of the year every one that whant to play firefall would be in the beta, and they will stop to call it beta when they would so it fit.

Lets see where Defiance is going, but i have high hops for it, and based on one frase said by one of the devs, and i quote "defiance is a third person shooter first and an mmo second"... here

And you can see it on the videos.

Lets see where the game is going.

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Originally Posted by Retsopmi

F2P is the biggest misconception in the gaming world. It's not there to help the players. F2P was made because companies like Zynga realized people are stupid and will buy small items, more often, equaling a larger total purchase. It is only a better value if a player spends no money, and if they spend no money they shouldn't be playing the game in the first place IMO.

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F2P assures a larger potential playerbase (and therefore more paying customers). That's the main reason many MMO's are going that route. Even if the amount of money made per customer is less, the F2P model assures more potential customers. There is nothing inherently oriented towards gouging customers with a F2P model. That depends entirely upon how a game company implements such a model. Charging money for vanity items and other non-performance related stuff is quickly becoming the default for companies that don't want to alienate players with P2W issues. There's no reason such a model wouldn't work perfectly for Defiance.

Argh!! Defiance is already set for a box but they are still deciding if it is b2p or sub. RUN to GameStop and pre-order now! $60 for regular , $100 for limited , and $150 for collectors. Limited and collectors are a GameStop exclusive.

You know, I think we all should just sit back and watch. At this point it is going to be money down first but I bet at the end of season one they will be going free to play.

what ive been saying about F2p. I think f2p is butchering the video game market an just another way for company's to milk money. It gives industries an excuse to half ***. Why i think its best that defiance stays away micro transaction or any F2p model. Box copy and premium

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Originally Posted by Black_wraith

what ive been saying about F2p. I think f2p is butchering the video game market an just another way for company's to milk money. It gives industries an excuse to half ***. Why i think its best that defiance stays away micro transaction or any F2p model. Box copy and premium

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That is how it was last year but now it things are changing, I just remembered another great free to play game this coming out, loadout! The guys making that game are firm on not selling power. The market it is changing you just got to open your eyes once more to free to play games.

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Originally Posted by Plzbanme

That is how it was last year but now it things are changing, I just remembered another great free to play game this coming out, loadout! The guys making that game are firm on not selling power. The market it is changing you just got to open your eyes once more to free to play games.

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i hope they dont have in game money or a money market like were players can buy gear. :(


I dont like the idea that some little rich ****** can come in buy epic items an kick someones *** because, he has god like armour and guns.


Side note: how many guns and weapons are in the game?

If they make a game that isn't an overhyped piece of junk that isn't worth playing two weeks after launch they can have my right n** for all I care. Sick of buy the "next big thing" to find out there is nothing to do after I level. Just because you can add more content later doesn't mean you shouldn't have some at launch.

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Originally Posted by Black_wraith

i hope they dont have in game money or a money market like were players can buy gear. :(


I dont like the idea that some little rich ****** can come in buy epic items an kick someones *** because, he has god like armour and guns.


Side note: how many guns and weapons are in the game?

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in interview they say there thousand of weapon =D

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Originally Posted by Black_wraith

i hope they dont have in game money or a money market like were players can buy gear. :(


I dont like the idea that some little rich ****** can come in buy epic items an kick someones *** because, he has god like armour and guns.


Side note: how many guns and weapons are in the game?

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There is nothing wrong with selling guns as long as, free players can get them in a reasonable amount of time too. Blacklight does this really well, you can buy all of the top level stuff if you want at level one but the top level stuff is only a sidegrade to other stuff. And you know what is funny? Their prices with zen are pretty high, 5 dollars to prem-buy something and each gun is made of 5 or 6 parts. They also have premades which you can buy cheap with in-game money cheap.

So really call me silly but I do like F2P since I have a family and do not make enough to keep a monthly going, I play other F2P games with great fun times had by all. I in some have to buy content or in others only use store to buy well things. I think that companies are going to make more money if they allow people that are hardcore and willing to pay every month a slight advantage. and I also want to add that I hope that there is a ingame way to make small amounts of store spending points ingame so people can get a taste of what they are missing and then maybe more will try and buy more from store for better game play.

now this is just my opinion so be nice.

For the last time! Please stop talking about Blacklight! That game is pay2win, pure and simple. Just like any other game published by Perfect World, for that matter.

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Originally Posted by Plzbanme

There is nothing wrong with selling guns as long as, free players can get them in a reasonable amount of time too. Blacklight does this really well, you can buy all of the top level stuff if you want at level one but the top level stuff is only a sidegrade to other stuff. And you know what is funny? Their prices with zen are pretty high, 5 dollars to prem-buy something and each gun is made of 5 or 6 parts. They also have premades which you can buy cheap with in-game money cheap.

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im not denying Free to play games are good. (i play planetside 2) However, it still a simple pay to win plane an simple and playing it normally it will take you years to unlock everything or anything at that. I Really want to keep in game micro transaction as far away from this as we can same with subscription, so more people will be attracted to it its best to keep it simple. 1x 60$ pay with a premium option for early dlc access F all this subscription and mirco transaction crap. Not enough people have noticed this game, an from what i can tell a lot of people are beginning to.

So think about the average gamer, ive been spreading the news on a couple of my forums an people are beginning to notice. All of them are hoping that no micro transaction or monthly fee. I think that's the best thing to do to attracting a large audience of people

I was gonna play Firefall but I so hopelessly hooked on Planetside 2.

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Originally Posted by Black_wraith

im not denying Free to play games are good. (i play planetside 2) However, it still a simple pay to win plane an simple and playing it normally it will take you years to unlock everything or anything at that. I Really want to keep in game micro transaction as far away from this as we can same with subscription, so more people will be attracted to it its best to keep it simple. 1x 60$ pay with a premium option for early dlc access F all this subscription and mirco transaction crap. Not enough people have noticed this game, an from what i can tell a lot of people are beginning to.

So think about the average gamer, ive been spreading the news on a couple of my forums an people are beginning to notice. All of them are hoping that no micro transaction or monthly fee. I think that's the best thing to do to attracting a large audience of people

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From what I'm hearing its most likely going to be similar to Dc Online where you can buy xp boosts and expansions or just sub and get everything for free. Then of course you have to buy the box.Also a premium service that your seeing in CoD, Halo, Borderlands, and all the new games would probably not work on an MMO. Due to the fact that on an MMO your burning through updates 10x the rate for any other nonMMO game. This means more money, so you have to make a system that has a little more money involved. But who knows they could take this step and slow down the process at which games are getting more expensive.

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Originally Posted by Black_wraith

im not denying Free to play games are good. (i play planetside 2) However, it still a simple pay to win plane an simple and playing it normally it will take you years to unlock everything or anything at that. I Really want to keep in game micro transaction as far away from this as we can same with subscription, so more people will be attracted to it its best to keep it simple. 1x 60$ pay with a premium option for early dlc access F all this subscription and mirco transaction crap. Not enough people have noticed this game, an from what i can tell a lot of people are beginning to.

So think about the average gamer, ive been spreading the news on a couple of my forums an people are beginning to notice. All of them are hoping that no micro transaction or monthly fee. I think that's the best thing to do to attracting a large audience of people

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It is not plane and simple pay and win. They have to make money some where and they do it in time. If you could get parts easily by just playing the game do you think anyone would ever pay a cent? You are just getting things faster. It is perfectly fine thing to do for free to play, if the game is skill based.
I will give you the last part since the game isn't free to play yet.

One of you spoke of Blacklight being paid to win, well its true, the amount of time a player would have to go to unblock everything would be incredible, and, yo will say no its not, well, they have disguised it well with the rentels. You rent something for a smal amout of time and for not motch but its just an "ilusion".
But my point here is that Blacklight as not persistence, you spend your time in a lobie. Its the same as playing counter strike. It just looks diferent because it give you an ilusion.

Defiance should go Buy to play, you buy the box and play. Then mabe have a store, do not mind about it, if its good i will spend money time to time. After that do paid expansions.


You guys speak of free to play but you dont now why its here and how it started.

If you have a country that as one third of the world population and every day you have a MMO that goes out and one that dies because they do not have many players interested. You have to invent a way to attract players so you make a game free and you put a store where you use real maney. And mabe some of games will have a sub model too. You make them also simple to keep player imfo so you dont spend to motch on servers, there you go you are making milions. And the estern mentality is very turned to gambling.

In the West, unless you are planing on "selling" your game to the chinise, free to play is a tuff choice to make. Western players do not have the habit to spend money in stores of free to play games.

Now, because of many estern companies are coming with there games to the west, you start to see some changes in the industry.
I am going to tell you of a game that sold a a lie. But before i need to tell you that i studied marketing in the university. So the game is FIREFALL, you did not saw that one coming. They say they are free to play, but then they say they are in beta, but IF you buy now the game you will get in beta now. WHAT!!! Then you have no NDA, so you have tone of videos on the web players whant to try it they will buy it now to play it now. Its the lie of you being parte of a privete exclusive club, that after a will every one is there. Its the perfect con.

To finish, F2P in many games it kills the game, you atract players that will "kill" the fans, (you atract the bad trolls), the ones that do spend money because they know nothing is Free and they like the game. Every one as to put food on the table. After a while the spenders will go. leaving no one to pay for the game. My last argument, you dont ask companys to make free solo games, do you, why should massive games that require tones of money to keep going to be free.

I see where I went wrong here, I forgot tell you that companies need to make money. There has to be give in there some where, the easy way out is pay to win. The hard way is blacklight's way. I don't get what you guys would think is fair for a free to play game. Do you expect to play for a week and own half the items in game? How are they going to make money to keep updating the game and run servers for the game. You are getting a game, and paying in time. Blacklight is one of the best in terms of treating free players. You get 3 day rentals after leveling up, they let you earn zen out of game through promos and stuff. Really guys tell me how blacklight could not be pay to win? I want numbers not "make it not take as long". You guys have no idea how what it takes to run and maintian a game and I think zombie game blacklight just right for players who know what effort is. I play blacklight free and am very happy with it. I kickass and land on the top 3 most games, and only have been play for about 100 hours.

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Originally Posted by Plzbanme

I see where I went wrong here, I forgot tell you that companies need to make money. There has to be give in there some where, the easy way out is pay to win. The hard way is blacklight's way. I don't get what you guys would think is fair for a free to play game. Do you expect to play for a week and own half the items in game? How are they going to make money to keep updating the game and run servers for the game. You are getting a game, and paying in time. Blacklight is one of the best in terms of treating free players. You get 3 day rentals after leveling up, they let you earn zen out of game through promos and stuff. Really guys tell me how blacklight could not be pay to win? I want numbers not "make it not take as long". You guys have no idea how what it takes to run and maintian a game and I think zombie game blacklight just right for players who know what effort is. I play blacklight free and am very happy with it. I kickass and land on the top 3 most games, and only have been play for about 100 hours.

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I can tell you really like blacklight. I have never played it, nor will. I prefer a subscription model. Defiance has already announced it will have a dual model; B2P, with "piece by piece" content, or a sub, to get it all. You said it yourself, companies need to make money. I am willing to pay for a good game, but for the players that love their CoD and games of the like, they can follow the GW2 model until they decide if they like it or not an find it worth supporting.

Plus, with a sub, I can SUCK at the game, an still be able to experiance at least half of the game's content. In free to play, unless you are the allmighty god of headshots an instant scoping, knifing the snipers and walking across rooftops twitch player, you wont get to experiance the upper 40% of the game. OR, you open up your wallet an say "I want to go there and do this, but I suck" and either in game currency or out of game currency, you get to buy your way there.

Sub is a balancer, just like pvp is the ultimate equalizer in class balances. From what you have been lobbying for, sounds like you want the game to reward skill on it's business model. I think that will bite most games in the butt, because then you get lesser skilled people that want to experiance the upper 40%, and cant, so they are forced to open up their wallets (take a good look at eve online, for those that cant get a cap ship on their own, they pay 100's of real world currency for someone else to build it) to pay someone that can get them there. Be it in game currency or out sourced real world market value.

I think the focus here is appropriate, reward good gear to good players, and mediocre gear for anyone. The day "required" life's amnenitys go "free" will be the day I expect life's recreation that requires several million dollars in funding, to go free. Give me a house for free, I will give you a game for free.

I have to say I still think DDO's model is working and you get the game for free and people even if it is once or every sale that pops up spend real cash for stuff but you can earn points through game play this would take a very long time but if you really love the game that much and do not have the money it works. but like I said before this is the change to come with MMO's and people will just have to get used to it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fikticio

One of you spoke of Blacklight being paid to win, well its true, the amount of time a player would have to go to unblock everything would be incredible, and, yo will say no its not, well, they have disguised it well with the rentels. You rent something for a smal amout of time and for not motch but its just an "ilusion".
But my point here is that Blacklight as not persistence, you spend your time in a lobie. Its the same as playing counter strike. It just looks diferent because it give you an ilusion.

Defiance should go Buy to play, you buy the box and play. Then mabe have a store, do not mind about it, if its good i will spend money time to time. After that do paid expansions.


You guys speak of free to play but you dont now why its here and how it started.

If you have a country that as one third of the world population and every day you have a MMO that goes out and one that dies because they do not have many players interested. You have to invent a way to attract players so you make a game free and you put a store where you use real maney. And mabe some of games will have a sub model too. You make them also simple to keep player imfo so you dont spend to motch on servers, there you go you are making milions. And the estern mentality is very turned to gambling.

In the West, unless you are planing on "selling" your game to the chinise, free to play is a tuff choice to make. Western players do not have the habit to spend money in stores of free to play games.

Now, because of many estern companies are coming with there games to the west, you start to see some changes in the industry.
I am going to tell you of a game that sold a a lie. But before i need to tell you that i studied marketing in the university. So the game is FIREFALL, you did not saw that one coming. They say they are free to play, but then they say they are in beta, but IF you buy now the game you will get in beta now. WHAT!!! Then you have no NDA, so you have tone of videos on the web players whant to try it they will buy it now to play it now. Its the lie of you being parte of a privete exclusive club, that after a will every one is there. Its the perfect con.

To finish, F2P in many games it kills the game, you atract players that will "kill" the fans, (you atract the bad trolls), the ones that do spend money because they know nothing is Free and they like the game. Every one as to put food on the table. After a while the spenders will go. leaving no one to pay for the game. My last argument, you dont ask companys to make free solo games, do you, why should massive games that require tones of money to keep going to be free.

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Brilliant!

I will agree on the firefall stuff, they don't do anything in a logical manor. They were doing random balance before they had hit boxes set up.

I have NEVER seen a non-sub game to be worthwhile in the long run. The reason B2P and F2P games sound too good to be true is because they ARE!!

The ultimate difference is that MMOs require a lot of constant new content updates in order to stay interesting not become stale and boring. I have never seen a company to be able to provide lots of new frequent content updates without a subscription model.

Even if you look at GW2, - a buy to play game, most people have stopped playing because there is not much to do at the end. And even then, GW2 is not a good game for comparison because it is mostly focused around PvP, while Defiance will have its focus towards cooperative PvE (from what I understand).

Games with a focus on PvE NEED frequent content updates. Yes, playing a game regularly and not having to pay for frequent content sounds awesome. Too bad no company has managed to pull it off yet (developers dont work for free you know).

Even games that have a dual model (either pay optional subscription or pay for DLCs individually) dont have good content updates. For example, The Secret World follows that model and its montly content updates are tiny, at best.

World of Warcraft on the other hand, is releasing a TON of content constantly. I dont even have time to go through everything and they are preparing to release yet another Raid with a ton of bosses. Not to mention many new zones, quests, etc. I dont particulatly like WoW, but with all the B2P and F2P mmo crap that is out there, i dont have many options.

I am okay with b2p or even f2p if they do it right. You offer vanity items or boosts to farm faster. You do not give them a way to make easy gold or get gear just by paying money. Riot got this right and people spend all kinds of money just to look cooler. First, make a decent game, then add cool looking gear/armor that cost cash. Those that care will buy it, those that don't will not.

The only real plus to subs is the revenue is more constant. No matter what you do there will be crying kids that flood the game at launch causing more servers to be made and then leave when they get off the new toy high and leave servers in need or a merger.