Please DON'T make weapons do more inherent damage with EGO level...but instead...

I saw the bit about increased EGO scaling for weapons and was immediately reminded of the vocal (minority of?) players who push for weapons to inherently do more damage with a higher ego requirement. It is a very dire mistake, and one I hope will not be made.

Now, if this was a clever (or awkward) way of talking about fixing the messy path weapon progression currently takes with which slots and which synergies are available when, that's good. Feel free to ignore everything else I have to say, or at least skip to the last paragraph for a little suggestion. If you're just cleaning up a functional idea, that is usually a good thing, and I'm specifically talking about the "higher ego means bigger guns" idea that needs to die. Trying to make Defiance into any version of Borderlands on the weapon-stats front is just going to kill the goose that lays the golden egg...

I'm going to be blunt here: any significant EGO scaling of the damage value on weapons, even something as simple as 1% per 100 ego, is going to have drastic long-term effects while doing little or nothing to placate the players who are currently asking for damage progression. You will never make the numbers big enough for them, because they are looking for Borderlands-esque progression (double your damage every couple hours) in a cooperative open-world MMO. You already know it's insane. It just won't work, as I'm sure your design team can attest, and if you try to give these players what they want you'll lose what makes the game great--the trail-of-breadcrumbs vertical/horizontal progression system you currently sport--without actually succeeding in pleasing the people who originally asked for steeper weapon progression.

I sincerely hope you don't fall into that trap...because it most certainly IS a trap. I get that players like bigger numbers, I really do, but there is already a huge difference in overall performance between low-EGO and high-EGO players. All those +4%, +12%, etc bonuses that already exist add up (as I'm sure they were intended to) whether or not that vocal minority I mentioned possesses the faculties to recognize it. It's there, and very clear if you actually test it...which I'm sure you have, but I doubt your petitioners took the time to check.

What will occur--and it WILL occur if you follow through with this plan--is that the gulf between low-EGO and high-EGO will rapidly expand. That kind of power inflation is why, in MMORPGs, it's often pointless to try to play with friends of a different power level. It also begs for a repeat of one of the problems RIFT had with open-world content--massively different levels all mashed together to try to complete events, to the detriment of everyone who wasn't at or near the cap. Ask your partner team from RIFT what happened in the game's youth when high-level players would swarm the lower-level zones to farm rift events and invasions--and that will be the entire Defiance world, all the time, due to the design here. The majority of this game was made to encourage open-world play, with rewards for having the biggest numbers, and no mechanics that actively penalize farming a lower-challenge area (right now, none is needed, but this kind of scaling WILL make it necessary). They had to make some pretty steep restrictions on which levels could benefit from what rift events, and even then there would sometimes be world events that would break it...and we would see those much more often thanks to the otherwise-entertaining episode pursuits...

I understand wanting to give players what they want, but this is a situation in which players are asking for one thing (bigger numbers) when they actually want something else (the ability to easily tell they are more powerful). You might find more luck in making a lot of people happy by simply making a summary page on the character stats that lists out the total bonuses in play for a particular loadout (total of all reload, damage, etc bonuses). That won't please the ones who seriously do want to double in power every few hours, but it would at least make the vertical progression component of this game more apparent to those who have reasonable expectations but haven't realized they are already being met.

Agree with this. You forgot all the extra work of scaling enemies up to match the increased numbers, which then makes the increases pointless. I've always thought it was silly to level up and end up doing millions of damage to enemies with more millions of health, resulting in the same time to kill. It's pointless fluff that causes the problems you mentioned.

Introducing the type of scaling the vocal minority is clamoring for is a terrible idea.
Combined with the cry's for better rewards for better 'performance' at arkfalls/coop stuff, this will serve to screw over the casual player.

Like it or not, the casual player is the majority. Giving us high ego level players (3200 myself atm) better weapons means we will always perform better than lower level players at ark falls. this also means we will always get better stuff than them, creating a bubble effect.

Need good stuff to perform well> cant get good stuff without performing well. It' doesnt work, and somehow i think Trion knows this, or at least i hope to god they know; otherwise the majority of players will simply stop playing (the majority being casual players)

A person that is casual player aka only plays 1-2hrs a day will not care about any changes since there not playing enough to notice.
The thing thats missing is an incentive for real players to carry on playing which can be done with more content*But thats on hold to keep up with the series* more pvp maps would help in the short term but if you REALLY want to keep people playing a MMO
you have to give them something to aim for and i don't mean scale the weapon dmg as u said because thats stupid but a weapon/mod system that is ego based and more rare weapons or mods to try and get.
@SuperBean So say we both work in this office both do the same job but you work 12hrs a day get paid $150 i work 2 hours get paid $150 thats fine because I'm just a casual worker and see no reason why you should get more than me JUST because you put more hours in?
The idea of a scale system is to reward people who play the game and people who ""Casually" play if they want the same items they have to put in the same work.

What I find refreshing about Defiance is, after I've leveled up and got shiny weapons, if I wander back to Mount Tam, and get sloppy, EMC goons can still smoke me. Defiance is not about pure statistical advancement. Gaining new perks opens up new loadout possibilities. There are many perk combinations with strong synergy.

-Invest in lots of damage mitigation = you are less squishy
-Invest in Ego recharging = you can almost constantly have one of the EGO skills going
-Etc...

OP, you are absolutely right, having damage directly linked to EGO level would effectively curb stomp this.

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Originally Posted by datalore

A person that is casual player aka only plays 1-2hrs a day will not care about any changes since there not playing enough to notice.
The thing thats missing is an incentive for real players to carry on playing which can be done with more content*But thats on hold to keep up with the series* more pvp maps would help in the short term but if you REALLY want to keep people playing a MMO
you have to give them something to aim for and i don't mean scale the weapon dmg as u said because thats stupid but a weapon/mod system that is ego based and more rare weapons or mods to try and get.
@SuperBean So say we both work in this office both do the same job but you work 12hrs a day get paid $150 i work 2 hours get paid $150 thats fine because I'm just a casual worker and see no reason why you should get more than me JUST because you put more hours in?
The idea of a scale system is to reward people who play the game and people who ""Casually" play if they want the same items they have to put in the same work.

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You are wrong about casuals not caring/noticing changes. When they see "hey, im not getting anything for ark falls" they will care, and will figure it out.

As a side note, stop acting like we hardcore players are a better class than casual players, we are not, we just have more free time; stop trying to be demeaning by saying things like 'real players'. real players are people who play the game, period.

as for the terrible office worker analogy, You both get paid the same hourly rate, thats what matters.
As it stands now, the system works just fine.

Doing more work = more stuff rewarded
Doing less work = less stuff rewarded.
Doing the same work = same amount of stuff rewarded.

You said yourself that its not fair that to have disparity in 'pay'.

"The idea of a scale system is to reward people who play the game and people who ""Casually" play if they want the same items they have to put in the same work"

ummm, you DO get rewarded. You get rewarded with XP, scrip, ark salvage and items. granted arkfalls should not be resetricted to shields and grenades, but you are rewarded. The amount of rewards (pay per hour) scales directly with the amount you play (workload). You claim this is what you want. well its already the way it is.

It sounds like what you really want is a system that caters to the hardcore players (the minority) and gives us super hyper monkey spazz force ultimate badassery weaponry that roflstomps the casuals(effectively killing pvp for the majority), and armor to go with it, so we can walk around saying "jelly bro?" to the casuals.

Agreed! Please do not make this change as I have seen it murder skill games in the past. Also, do not scale weapons greatly either. I don't want to lose to someone who plays 15 hours a day but sucks at the game because they grinded out all orange items. EVERY other MMO is like that and its not fun.

Reward SKILL not grind.

Your joking right ?
I went to an arkfall hit some mobs for about 5mins then went to the next one did the same and still got the same exp i would have got if i would have been there all the time and got 2 purple nads so rewards dont make no difference.
Even if they did make it a reward based on dmg a grenade or shield thats the same as what i got make no difference script is pointless when nothing to spend it on.
Ark salvage pointless too since most of the guns i tend to get either have 4 mod slot in or im using them to to increase skill since the difference in stats make little difference.
You didnt get the analogy did you at all? since i stated both the same pay but you work for 12hrs
This was ment as a lvl 1 can do the same dmg as you even thou your lvl100 aka he has done no work got the same as you do but youve worked your butt off.Any mmo needs a player to want to keep playing when there is no difference between lvl 1 and 1000
when the content/missions have finished there is nothing there for you to do/earn/get hence why most Good mmo's have some sort of leveling system.
If you want a shooter mmo go play call of duty or some other shooter this "was" supposed to be a HUGE mmo ive not seen anything as yet to tell me this is one since nothing in game require you to talk to anyone even a co-op mission are only done if you need it for a contract and theres no reason to type to any of the people because its so easy my 6 year old can do it

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Originally Posted by datalore

Your joking right ?
I went to an arkfall hit some mobs for about 5mins then went to the next one did the same and still got the same exp i would have got if i would have been there all the time and got 2 purple nads so rewards dont make no difference.

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So the people who just logged on or are slow getting to ark falls (scavenger ones for example are gone in a couple minutes) or were phased inside an instance/pvp/mission, they shouldn't be given the same rewards as you? is that what you are trying to say? Or is it that people that shoot 1 bullet then leave shouldnt get rewarded? you need to be a bit more concise in what you mean.

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Even if they did make it a reward based on dmg a grenade or shield thats the same as what i got make no difference script is pointless when nothing to spend it on.
Ark salvage pointless too since most of the guns i tend to get either have 4 mod slot in or im using them to to increase skill since the difference in stats make little difference.

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Ok? What is it you are after? What would you like it to be? In order to give proper feedback on anything, you also need to offer the constructive part, otherwise its just empty caterwauling.

Scrip is very useful, as is salvage. In case you are unaware, you can use both to acquire keys(or items directly from vendors, or other players), which you then use to acquire lock-box's. Which is kind of the point of this sort of game, a never ending grind for the next greatest weapon/item, much like the borderlands series.

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You didnt get the analogy did you at all? since i stated both the same pay but you work for 12hrs
This was ment as a lvl 1 can do the same dmg as you even thou your lvl100 aka he has done no work got the same as you do but youve worked your butt off.Any mmo needs a player to want to keep playing when there is no difference between lvl 1 and 1000

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I got it quite clearly actually. If a level 50 ego player is doing the same damage as you, the problem is not within the game, its with the player. As you level up, (inarguably) items progressively get better. Shields increase in their shield value, more modifiers are available to them. Weapons get access to better synergies, they also come with modifiers attached (1.04 dmg etc), which can be improved upon with mods and by leveling the weapon up itself. This is progressive, it may not be one that you particularly like, but to imply that there is no progress in the game represents a gross misunderstanding of what it is.

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when the content/missions have finished there is nothing there for you to do/earn/get hence why most Good mmo's have some sort of leveling system.

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Although i explained above, ill list a few things to do:
PvP, Coop-maps, rerun the story missions, complete pursuits, ark-falls, the never ending quest for better weapons, help friends, help clan members, enjoy the visuals of the game.
And before you say 'but that's repetitive' let me stop you right there. In WoW (since it seems to be the most popular comparison for some reason) you run the same raids over, and over, and over, and over. So thats a load of bunk. It could be that this just isn't' your' type of game, perhaps you should check out an mmorpg instead of an mmo-shooter?

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If you want a shooter mmo go play call of duty or some other shooter this "was" supposed to be a HUGE mmo ive not seen anything as yet to tell me this is one since nothing in game require you to talk to anyone even a co-op mission are only done if you need it for a contract and theres no reason to type to any of the people because its so easy my 6 year old can do it

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Sorry you seem to be having a rough time socializing within the game. My clan members and myself are enjoying it thoroughly, as are most of the randoms i've met within the coop and pvp systems.

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Originally Posted by SuperBean

So the people who just logged on or are slow getting to ark falls (scavenger ones for example are gone in a couple minutes) or were phased inside an instance/pvp/mission, they shouldn't be given the same rewards as you? is that what you are trying to say? Or is it that people that shoot 1 bullet then leave shouldnt get rewarded? you need to be a bit more concise in what you mean.

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i was replying to you saying casual plays will notice at arkfalls which your wrong since the damage done doesnt make difference to the reward you get.

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Originally Posted by SuperBean

Ok? What is it you are after? What would you like it to be? In order to give proper feedback on anything, you also need to offer the constructive part, otherwise its just empty caterwauling.

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If you actually understood my meaning instead of thinking your right and trying to look good you would have seen my point in my first post aka more content is needed and something to aim for in the game.

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Originally Posted by SuperBean

Scrip is very useful, as is salvage. In case you are unaware, you can use both to acquire keys(or items directly from vendors, or other players), which you then use to acquire lock-box's. Which is kind of the point of this sort of game, a never ending grind for the next greatest weapon/item, much like the borderlands series..

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With every weapon type there is a few differences between the same weapon types once you have say a LMG that you like there is little point in getting another one except for like i said to level the weapons skilll
so the script and salvage isnt worth much.Lock-boxes pff you might get an orange item but then it might be worse than the blue one you have so if thats the point in the game you must be board.

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Originally Posted by SuperBean

I got it quite clearly actually. If a level 50 ego player is doing the same damage as you, the problem is not within the game, its with the player. As you level up, (inarguably) items progressively get better. Shields increase in their shield value, more modifiers are available to them. Weapons get access to better synergies, they also come with modifiers attached (1.04 dmg etc), which can be improved upon with mods and by leveling the weapon up itself. This is progressive, it may not be one that you particularly like, but to imply that there is no progress in the game represents a gross misunderstanding of what it is..

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Thats so awesum omg x1.04 dmg REALLY so instead of 440dmg on my LMG i get 457 ...joking aside yes some might have a good perk and i mean "10%ego when fully reloaded" most of the other perks that can be on a weapon make such a small difference there stupid.If they was 1.04 to 2.00 then maybe it would be worth trying to find one but since there all block standard your never going to get a unique weapon someone will always have something ruffly the same.Oh synergies most of the ones ive seen on weapons also look like there not going to make a big difference.

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Originally Posted by SuperBean

PvP, Coop-maps, rerun the story missions, complete pursuits, ark-falls, the never ending quest for better weapons, help friends, help clan members, enjoy the visuals of the game.
And before you say 'but that's repetitive' let me stop you right there. In WoW (since it seems to be the most popular comparison for some reason) you run the same raids over, and over, and over, and over. So thats a load of bunk. It could be that this just isn't' your' type of game, perhaps you should check out an mmorpg instead of an mmo-shooter?.

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i dont mind repetive things like that but pvp maps was supposed to be 15+maps we have 2 maps
Co-op maps since loot is more or less the same as you have so unless your hoping for weapon because the exp is full and want to carry on leveling or you need to do it for a vendor mission then why bother.
Re-running story is fine but after 3 times it gets old.....all pursuit does except the ones that CANT be done since there not in the game yet...hard to socialize when you have nothing to say to someone since the game is FAR to easy there is nothing anyone needs help with since it can all be done solo(missions) and co-op/pvp you go in do your stuff get out ive typed many time in those but you could be playing with console noobs so they cant type and TBH i dont want to hear someone in a game unless I choose to there on a console tough should invest in a pc if they want to play a MMO