How I learned to enjoy MMOs (works for Defiance)

First some background. I like to find four-leaf clovers (4LC), and I do find many. It's estimated that for every 4LC there are ten thousand Three-leaf clovers (3LC)! If you examine every clover you see to discover if it's a 3LC or a 4LC, it will take you many hours before you find a 4LC and you'll probably give up before you ever find one.

The secret is to not really notice the 3LCs. I walk thru a field of clover and scan the field without focusing on the normal background stuff of the 3LCs. Every few steps, I'll notice something that looks a bit different. Usually, it's just a couple of 3LCs intertwined but every once in a while it's a 4LC (or even a 5 or 6). I only need to examine a few dozen of these different looking clovers to find my 4LC for the day.

What's that got to do with MMOs, you might ask... It's about what we focus on. MMOs have lots of different features/aspects. IF we allow ourselves to focus on the aspects of a game that we don't enjoy, we might not notice the aspects that we do like. I don't like bugs or flawed design. When I find a unique one, I shoot off a bug report and then forget about it. I find the game play in Defiance to be fun, so that's where I focus my attention.

Give it a try folks. Focus on the aspects that are fun for you and see if you don't end up finding even more ways to have fun. I play games to have fun, and I'm having fun in Defiance.

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Originally Posted by MacDeath

First some background. I like to find four-leaf clovers (4LC), and I do find many. It's estimated that for every 4LC there are ten thousand Three-leaf clovers (3LC)! If you examine every clover you see to discover if it's a 3LC or a 4LC, it will take you many hours before you find a 4LC and you'll probably give up before you ever find one.

The secret is to not really notice the 3LCs. I walk thru a field of clover and scan the field without focusing on the normal background stuff of the 3LCs. Every few steps, I'll notice something that looks a bit different. Usually, it's just a couple of 3LCs intertwined but every once in a while it's a 4LC (or even a 5 or 6). I only need to examine a few dozen of these different looking clovers to find my 4LC for the day.

What's that got to do with MMOs, you might ask... It's about what we focus on. MMOs have lots of different features/aspects. IF we allow ourselves to focus on the aspects of a game that we don't enjoy, we might not notice the aspects that we do like. I don't like bugs or flawed design. When I find a unique one, I shoot off a bug report and then forget about it. I find the game play in Defiance to be fun, so that's where I focus my attention.

Give it a try folks. Focus on the aspects that are fun for you and see if you don't end up finding even more ways to have fun. I play games to have fun, and I'm having fun in Defiance.

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Its good that you are still enjoying yourself, im just curious but what do you find most fun in defiance? what is your 4 leaf clover of defiance?

For me at the moment its more like im walking through a field of clovers as you describe and then suddenly stand in something squishy and smelly, i look down and i have stood in a cow pat, now for all the thousands of clovers, all the different types as you mentioned there is still some crap to find.

I enjoy riding around on my quad or roller and doing emergencies. I enjoy doing Arkfalls. I enjoy co-ops. I would enjoy more missions when we get em. I don't much enjoy the PvP in this game so I rarely go there.

[HINT] Walk around the cow pies.

While I agree with you to a certain extent, there are times I feel like I've picked the last four-leaf clover that exists in the game and I'm waiting for a new series of hypothetical four-leaf clovers to be added.

This is when I go to the forums.

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Originally Posted by Schwa

While I agree with you to a certain extent, there are times I feel like I've picked the last four-leaf clover that exists in the game and I'm waiting for a new series of hypothetical four-leaf clovers to be added.

This is when I go to the forums.

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This. very much so

I am sorry, but I disagree, the game has to be good as a whole, not have us cherry pick for the good bits, while ignoring the bad.

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Originally Posted by Rikishi

I am sorry, but I disagree, the game has to be good as a whole, not have us cherry pick for the good bits, while ignoring the bad.

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Sorry that I explained it so poorly. It's not about IGNORING the parts you don't like. It's about deciding to FOCUS on those parts or to focus on the parts that are fun for your play style.

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Originally Posted by MacDeath

First some background. I like to find four-leaf clovers (4LC), and I do find many. It's estimated that for every 4LC there are ten thousand Three-leaf clovers (3LC)! If you examine every clover you see to discover if it's a 3LC or a 4LC, it will take you many hours before you find a 4LC and you'll probably give up before you ever find one.

The secret is to not really notice the 3LCs. I walk thru a field of clover and scan the field without focusing on the normal background stuff of the 3LCs. Every few steps, I'll notice something that looks a bit different. Usually, it's just a couple of 3LCs intertwined but every once in a while it's a 4LC (or even a 5 or 6). I only need to examine a few dozen of these different looking clovers to find my 4LC for the day.

What's that got to do with MMOs, you might ask... It's about what we focus on. MMOs have lots of different features/aspects. IF we allow ourselves to focus on the aspects of a game that we don't enjoy, we might not notice the aspects that we do like. I don't like bugs or flawed design. When I find a unique one, I shoot off a bug report and then forget about it. I find the game play in Defiance to be fun, so that's where I focus my attention.

Give it a try folks. Focus on the aspects that are fun for you and see if you don't end up finding even more ways to have fun. I play games to have fun, and I'm having fun in Defiance.

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Wow, TRION must be getting desperate, they now try to appeal to us through forum posts.
Darren is that you?

I cannot believe as a society we feel the need to tell other people to do things so simple as 'give something a chance.'

If people are not willing or cannot be bothered, then fu** em.
It's not your responsibility to show them the truth and nor is it your intent.

This idea that your intentions are altruistic is just a cover up to excuse YOUR need to talk about an issue that you've made a big deal to YOURSELF.

Go take it to Facebook or something.

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Originally Posted by MacDeath

Sorry that I explained it so poorly. It's not about IGNORING the parts you don't like. It's about deciding to FOCUS on those parts or to focus on the parts that are fun for your play style.

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You are absolutely correct, well for me at least. I do the same thing as you. If i see a bug i make a report, i do not let it ruin my experience. An example for this: I recently did a side mission, i had to click on this detonator to activate it (the last one to complete the quest). It was un-clickable, i sat there trying to click it from all angles for about 10 minutes. I then gave up and made a bug report.

Some people would be livid, but i waited a day and came back and i was able to complete the task. I do not notice to many bugs to be honest (Besides the bouncy bug, but that is a fun one lol). I do not play as much as others either. I maybe log 3-4 hour's a day in defiance. Then i spend another 3-4 hours in Rift.

At this current time i think i am almost 1200 EGO, i just got the Black challenger (that was super easy to get by the way).

I do the same, i ride around and do emergencies and do Ark-fall's. I PvP at times, but not frequently. Shadow War's is pretty fracking sweet.

The game has gotten alot more fun recently since some Real life friend's bought Defiance a week ago. This game was meant to be played w/ others.

The only thing in the game that drive's me insane is the chat window and chat options. If they were able to fix that on the PC version, it would be AMAZING.

Other than that, thank you OP for sharing your thought's on this matter. I agree w/ you 100%, and i hope you were able to help a few people struggling w/ this.

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Originally Posted by MacDeath

Sorry that I explained it so poorly. It's not about IGNORING the parts you don't like. It's about deciding to FOCUS on those parts or to focus on the parts that are fun for your play style.

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QFT.

Pick what you want to pay attention to. If you just want to pay attention to bad things, no game in the universe will EVER satisfy, and damn little in real life will satisfy you either.

MacDeath, you speak wise things.

There is no appreciation for wisdom in this perma-adolesence world we live in. If you're 50 and speak wisdom, most will brand you "old and out-of-touch." If you're young and speak wisdom, most will ignore it call it "cliche."

But wisdom is wisdom. Of course, cliches are cliche, and often confused for wisdom by the young or the out-of-touch.

YOU SHOULD BE LIKE ME, guys! Wise and thoughtful, that's what I'm saying.

Or am I saying that a real sense of humor is the greatest mark of wisdom of all?

What is not wise? Wasting my time talking about wisdom. The people who want it, nothing gets in their way of pursuit of it. And all the perma-adolecents out there? Nothing gets in their way, either.

I like Defiance. But its just a dang computer game. Fortunately, I have spent many years not complaining, not judging people, not nit-picking reality, and working with what I've got (not much), and _building_ a life that's worth more than taking (wasting) time to do these things on internet forums. Now I have a couple hours-a-week to "waste" playing a computer game. That time is so valuable to me. If I didn't like the game, why would I waste time going on a fan site telling people I don't like it?

Do these people go into McDonald's and tell them how to make their hamburgers better? Do they park outside television producers' houses to tell them how they want their favorite show to go? I'm sure some of you do, huh?

On a stupid computer game forum I'll tell a big secret: If you guys had any idea where dollars come from. . . what dollars are. . . Eh, there I go thinking people actually want wisdom... Most want dollars, chase dollars, get mad a $60 video game wasted their money. . . don't have a clue what those dollars are. And yes, euros, loonies, all these "bills," people obsess over their whole lives. . .

Ah ha! I just told you! It's a dollar bill, isn't it? Who is getting billed? Who is billing who for what? Too much for you? Live your life how you want. . . I'm just sayin'... What I'm saying here is public knowledge - start reading Title 31 Code of Federal Regulations. Yes, it's public knowledge, it's no secret... and yet barely a soul in the world has any idea what these dollars are.

It is not in your best interest to ignore wisdom. . . to "not have time for it,". . . i am JUST SAYIN

If you like to make computer games, make em. If you like to play them, play em. Just do my kids a favor, for Pete's sake do your Self a favor: don't bankrupt yourself and your society in the process of doing whatever it is that you love to do..

The problem is that the good things to do in this game are so few and far between that doing these things quickly becomes boring and something you once found fun becomes tedious. Its not even like theres a point to doing most of the stuff, most games atleast give you some reward for doing tedious stuff.

Yes yes... low post count. I am a troll. I don't even play Defiance. Nothing to see here...

Nice post MacDeath. I've been saying something similar for a while now too. Don't worry though there are people still playing and enjoying the game. I've realized that the forums right now are more representative of polar extremes and aren't a completely accurate representation of how people feel about the game. Much like in US politics, you hear from the extreme left and right while the moderate middle just ignores places like the forums and plays the game when they feel like it.


It'll be interesting to see what happens with the community once the dust settles and a lot of these visceral "**** Trion" threads die down.

Ya but that only brings you so far, it would of been nice if the whole game itself was great, and not just simple factors that keep us playing...You know, i would like it if the glitched trucks in the sky would disappear.

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Originally Posted by Amicus Curiae

Yes yes... low post count. I am a troll. I don't even play Defiance. Nothing to see here...

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What, a troll beating me to calling his own self out? What.. sph.. sdjkflksfs... how DARE you sir. :p How dare you take the only pleasure i have in these forums away from me.

No not really, but thanks for the lolz.

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Originally Posted by MacDeath

What's that got to do with MMOs, you might ask... It's about what we focus on. MMOs have lots of different features/aspects. IF we allow ourselves to focus on the aspects of a game that we don't enjoy, we might not notice the aspects that we do like. I don't like bugs or flawed design. When I find a unique one, I shoot off a bug report and then forget about it. I find the game play in Defiance to be fun, so that's where I focus my attention.

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Couldn't have said it much better myself! Worked wonders for me back in DCUO's early days.

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Originally Posted by Rikishi

I am sorry, but I disagree, the game has to be good as a whole, not have us cherry pick for the good bits, while ignoring the bad.

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Originally Posted by MacDeath

Sorry that I explained it so poorly. It's not about IGNORING the parts you don't like. It's about deciding to FOCUS on those parts or to focus on the parts that are fun for your play style.

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In my opinion this pretty much describes the current mindset of gamers with MMOs in general. For years everyone wanted more options, more ways to enjoy the game. Now that there are more MMOs with TONS of different things you can do a lot of people either complain that there is no direction, or play merely for bigger numbers and then complain when they've maxed their character that there is nothing left to do.

If you're worried about the parts of the game that don't appeal to you, you are missing the point of having an open game world to begin with. If there are more things you dislike than things you like, then yes, maybe it's not the game for you.

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Originally Posted by MacDeath

Sorry that I explained it so poorly. It's not about IGNORING the parts you don't like. It's about deciding to FOCUS on those parts or to focus on the parts that are fun for your play style.

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The part that I did like was content, and playing that content.

Everything else is a big cow pie to me now. Can find something wrong with everything else.

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Originally Posted by chefwhitey

The part that I did like was content, and playing that content.

Everything else is a big cow pie to me now. Can find something wrong with everything else.

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So, the stuff that you like becomes 'content', and anything you don't like is not content. Interesting approach you have. [/sarcasm]

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Originally Posted by Schwa

While I agree with you to a certain extent, there are times I feel like I've picked the last four-leaf clover that exists in the game and I'm waiting for a new series of hypothetical four-leaf clovers to be added.

This is when I go to the forums.

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do the community a favor and go to another game instead

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Originally Posted by greatdividers

do the community a favor and go to another game instead

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I have a better idea! :D Or.. you can respect his views. Just like i know he probably respects yours. (having seen his posts) And maybe have a nice discussion about it eh? Maybe try to see it from his eyes?

Sound good? Great!

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Originally Posted by MacDeath

It's about deciding to FOCUS on those parts or to focus on the parts that are fun for your play style.

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Which in my case, there aren't any beyond a "futuristic earth". That's not really a good reason to keep playing when everything else makes me want to look the Devs in the face and ask them "Were you drunk when you thought this TPSMMO would be fun for more then 5 days?"

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Originally Posted by Archeus9

What, a troll beating me to calling his own self out? What.. sph.. sdjkflksfs... how DARE you sir. :p How dare you take the only pleasure i have in these forums away from me.

No not really, but thanks for the lolz.

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YES! I got one!

Hey, if ya think that's funny, go read Title 31 CFR and figure out what these dollars are everyone obsesses over. It IS a one-hundred-dollar BILL. Just like your electric bill. Who is billing who for what? Title 31, good read. Very funny.

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Originally Posted by Saboteur 6

I've realized that the forums right now are more representative of polar extremes and aren't a completely accurate representation of how people feel about the game. Much like in US politics, you hear from the extreme left and right while the moderate middle just ignores places like the forums and plays the game when they feel like it.

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Reasoning behind that is generally about 50% of those people whom enjoy the MMO they're playing don't know Forums exist for it, and in some cases even a webpage. :/

Thanks for all the feedback. I'm going back outside for a bit. It's the nicest day we've had here this spring! I'll be back to this thread as soon as I can.

Peace

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Originally Posted by Amicus Curiae

YES! I got one!

Hey, if ya think that's funny, go read Title 31 CFR and figure out what these dollars are everyone obsesses over. It IS a one-hundred-dollar BILL. Just like your electric bill. Who is billing who for what? Title 31, good read. Very funny.

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Oh shoot, on topic. Well... you know how in Defiance ppl exchange "dollars" for "bits," but they are the same thing, right? Money. Then we use the bits for say, a loot boost, so another exchange for a different money. But its still money, right? (Time=life=people-interacting-with-their-time=money) We use it to buy things, so its money. But where did the dollars come from? What was exchanged for those money?

The world through the eyes of an Amicus...

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Originally Posted by Amicus Curiae

What was exchanged for those money?

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Apparently drugs. Lots of drugs.

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Originally Posted by Schwa

While I agree with you to a certain extent, there are times I feel like I've picked the last four-leaf clover that exists in the game and I'm waiting for a new series of hypothetical four-leaf clovers to be added.

This is when I go to the forums.

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Yep, sorry Mac, but for that to be true of every MMO, the MMO must at least offer the 4LC to the player. And that 4LC is different for each player.

For me, it is the stories contained within the missions. Once I defeated Nim after only 25 hours played (including grinding the Arkfalls for lottery tickets), the field was bare of those 4LCs.

By that stage, Arkfalls and Emergencies were just not fun anymore, the Co-ops were okay the first time through but too easy to be worth repeating (and this is being said by a guy for who Defiance was his first shooter, so I'm not very good at them), and I have zero interest in taking part of console game oriented Rampages and Time Trials. Same was true of the races in DCUO.

So, for $60, I had, in fact, picked my last 4LC after only 2 weeks. Unless, I assume, I shell out another $10 for a DLC with likely far less 4LCs for me.

You guys realize that $60 for a 7-12 hour single player experience is pretty standard right? So to tell me that "I burned through the single player in two weeks and 25 hrs" and then claim that there's not enough content is extremely misguided. Let me remind you... there's NO MONTHLY SUBSCRIPTION. You're free to leave and come back when something gets added that looks interesting.

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Originally Posted by Saboteur 6

You guys realize that $60 for a 7-12 hour single player experience is pretty standard right? So to tell me that "I burned through the single player in two weeks and 25 hrs" and then claim that there's not enough content is extremely misguided. Let me remind you... there's NO MONTHLY SUBSCRIPTION. You're free to leave and come back when something gets added that looks interesting.

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Maybe on the console gaming end, but not for an MMO, even a B2P one.

I got more than 2 weeks of missions out of GW2, and when I left (longer than 2 weeks and 25 hours) I had yet to finish all the quests.

The Secret World, played for over 2 months and had not gotten anywhere near completed on the missions.

Both games were played far more than 25 hours. Both games are B2P.

Except we wanted what was advertised.

And it's very lacking in what was advertised that was a swaying point for many.
If I was buying just for a 7-12 hour single player experience.......I would have bought something different........probably be cheaper. Or better yet.......I could probably find one free.

There are plenty of other threads on that so it's better not to go into that.
MMOs are great when they work correctly and are implemented well.

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Originally Posted by Zertael

Apparently drugs. Lots of drugs.

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That's on the public side of the bank.

This is why I like Defiance, 'cause I can find fun anywhere. (yes, big nod to the OP)

Defiance is partially ruled by the "rule of law," partly by the "law of the jungle." That's just like our real world. Big difference to the real world - you're not in danger of any one else unless you _volunteer_ (PvP). IRL, people can mess with you if they find it worth their time, and some do.

But is real life ruled by law, or does the law of the jungle rule? It's both, but for most ppl, it's mostly a jungle out there. People love to think that courts are where the law is (I think that's Title 12, CFR), but that's what they want you to think so they can jungle you out of your money/time/life while you think there's real law at work. Real Law is only in your heart. Use it or lose it.

Dollars?. . . (laughing to myself). . . i see these ppl on these forums all worked up that Trion is doing a money grab with this and that and the other. and "bits are too expensive." If people had any idea the raw deal they get when they're chasing dollars....

Bits are a way better deal. And you won't catch me exchanging my life/time/money for them. Pretty dang careful what I do for and with dollars, too :-)

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Originally Posted by Rasczak

Maybe on the console gaming end, but not for an MMO, even a B2P one.

I got more than 2 weeks of missions out of GW2, and when I left (longer than 2 weeks and 25 hours) I had yet to finish all the quests.

The Secret World, played for over 2 months and had not gotten anywhere near completed on the missions.

Both games were played far more than 25 hours. Both games are B2P.

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I won't defend Trion's advertising but I got the impression closer to release they were leaning heavy on the "third-person shooter" over traditional MMORPG. This roughly translates to a lot of the expected replay value of Defiance to be tied up in the multiplayer modes grinding for Ark Salvage. This would've worked (or at least been better received) if the weapon scaling, properties, and functionality would've been more interesting.

Some of you expected a massive sprawling RPG story while I expected Borderlands 2 with an MMO persistent world.

-Leans over his industrial container full of four-leaf clovers...-

"Ok i enjoyed gazing at you over and over for more than a month...Now what?"

So what do you do if your 4 leaf clover counter keeps resetting everytime you go back inside?

;)

great breakdown, seriously as an older guy who actually use too look for 4LC this is a great analogy.

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Originally Posted by phunphool

So what do you do if your 4 leaf clover counter keeps resetting everytime you go back inside?

;)

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You win dude. I can't top that. Thank you sir, you won today lol.

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Originally Posted by JagerMyk

great breakdown, seriously as an older guy who actually use too look for 4LC this is a great analogy.

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Thanks. I still find quite a few. About 10 years ago, I needed to return to the US for a month. My wife needed to stay in Denmark. Prior to leaving I found 30+ 4LC and gave em to her to press in a book. So she would have a 4LC for every day I was gone.

Its great that your enjoying the game but enjoying the game because you managed to find one thing that makes you happy is nothing more than deluding yourself into believing a game is good. There are good things about defiance no doubt and I honestly love alot of things about defiance, sadly the game was released with so little content that it feels nothing like an ever expanding world. Its an MMO without basic social functions, severe group limitations and programming that purposely limits interacting with people in the world.

The foundation of the game is fun and enjoyable but it is not an MMO anymore than a game like Borderlands is an MMO at this point sadly with less content. Those of us not clinging onto the 4LC have realised their are games out there where you have no need to hunt for something good because its everywhere. At some point even Trion is going to have to admit the truth and concede that they overestimated the quality of their product and only then will they begin building back up the trust they lost from alot of us. The game isnt great but it could be but im sorry im not willing to pretend the game is great now while waiting for it to become great.