Taking aim assist out of PvP removes all skill from PvP!

I don't suck at PvP. I've made PvP threads before and a good chunk of replies assumes i'm bad and that's the motive for writing the thread. I write a thread like this for the self evident truths that the developers will never figure out on their own to fix.

First of all I expect 99% of the replies to be either people who don't read the thread, go off the title, don't understand the thread, don't play PvP or can't put up any good educated argument. I take no mercy in replying to you when you make a dumb statement.

This is competitive discussion, not shadow war discussion. I play on the Xbox 360. Anyone claiming this game has skill in the PvP in conoles is so wrong. The biggest problem i've ever seen with PvP is in the fact there isn't any aim assist. Specifically PvP has guns that have strong aim assist making other guns completely obsolete in PvP. I'm very rarely killed by another AR, LMG, SMG, Pistol or Sniper user. I'm only killed by Detonators, Rocket Launchers/Guided Rocket Launchers, Shotguns, Sawed off shotguns, Infectors and Biomechanical Guns typically. The reason is aim assist.

The fact the developers take away aim assist in PvP is good! But then more than half the weapons in PvP have some type of homing/area of effect damage.... ARs, SMGs, LMGs, Pistols, and Snipers are completely obsolete when it comes to Detonators, Rocket Launchers and Guided Rocket Launchers, Shotguns, Sawed off Shotguns, Infectors and Biomechanical Guns. The developers have absolutely undermined every user who uses a rifle/pistol by adding homing and area of effect weapons. By removing aim assist but keeping it with certain weapons, where is the balance? Rifles have no place in PvP because of this. They should have just kept aim assist in the game if it were up to me, but i've made another thread to understand not many other people want aim assist in PvP so i'll just give up that argument.

I have a ton more information I go by, so if you want come at me. I can defend myself, and anyone who feels the need to defend me because they might agree please don't, i'll be fine. I've made tons of other PvP threads and play PvP avidly with friends enough.

/Discuss. Come at me, i'll give my opinions back, infact I will reply to ALL comments made on this thread no matter what, positive or negative so long as they are a decent argument. So expect a reply. :cool:

I agree and disagree with you, I don't want aim assist because aim should be about skill, I agree with you in the fact it limits weapon choice. My vote would be to remove locking/homeing from weapons to make all weapons work better.

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Originally Posted by Nithryok

I agree and disagree with you, I don't want aim assist because aim should be about skill, I agree with you in the fact it limits weapon choice. My vote would be to remove locking/homeing from weapons to make all weapons work better.

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Except it wouldn't. That would ruin Infectors and BMGs without severe overhauls and it doesn't address the "aim-assist" splash damage gets (the bigger the area hit, the more likely you'll hit it).

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Originally Posted by Nithryok

I agree and disagree with you, I don't want aim assist because aim should be about skill, I agree with you in the fact it limits weapon choice. My vote would be to remove locking/homeing from weapons to make all weapons work better.

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Removing homeing/locking? Well that's not smart, how would you like a guided rocket launcher that doesn't home lol? How else are you suppose to kill a cerberus anyways? Some pistol shots aren't going to do it.

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Originally Posted by Giizis

Except it wouldn't. That would ruin Infectors and BMGs without severe overhauls and it doesn't address the "aim-assist" splash damage gets (the bigger the area hit, the more likely you'll hit it).

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Fixing area of effect weapons isn't good either. I generally don't know how to fix this game in weapon balance other than putting aim assist in the game to compensate and bring the rifle guns up to par.

I'm not advocating a reduction or removal of area-of-effect or homing. Rather, I'm pointing out that short of a complete overhaul these "issues" will always exist and removing only part of it won't stop the "problem" that most are seeing. As such, complaints will continue until guns become homogenized. I don't advocate large overhauls or changes and I have to agree that a weak auto-assist is perhaps the best solution. People like to think that they're all skill and whatnot, but in reality without some sort of assistance some guns will always have issues performing any better than mediocre when compared to guns that have it built in. As such, the easiest and least game-changing way to fix it would be to add a weak assist.

You could've use a better title lol "Taking aim-assist out empowers homing/AoE-type weapons even more!"

That would've been straight to the point :P

On your point, I can understand your view but I don't agree with you. Aim-assist actually messes up their game for a good semi-autoer and rifler because it stuffs up their headshots. Plus, I personally would prefer more control. Also, I don't really like the whole tab targeting for this type of fast paced TPS game - makes it too much like SWTOR, which is not what this game is supposed to be.

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Originally Posted by aRtFuL

You could've use a better title lol "Taking aim-assist out empowers homing/AoE-type weapons even more!"

That would've been straight to the point :P

On your point, I can understand your view but I don't agree with you. Aim-assist actually messes up their game for a good semi-autoer and rifler because it stuffs up their headshots. Plus, I personally would prefer more control. Also, I don't really like the whole tab targeting for this type of fast paced TPS game - makes it too much like SWTOR, which is not what this game is supposed to be.

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Which is easily fixed with an option to turn it off. For those who may not be quite as...skillled...no aim assist just forces them into weapons they CAN hit with. Which everyone complains about. See the dilemma? Besides, he's not talking about tab targeting or snap-to. If you read his other thread (which he should have referenced) he's actually suggesting a sort of slight magnetism only when the opponent is hovered over. Just enough to make it harder to for the target to rolldodge/jump away from every bullet. Not even a full magnetism either...if he stayed still and kept shooting and failed to adjust as the opponent ran away, he wouldn't auto-aim onto them. It would require aiming, it would just help to strengthen the worst bits.

As i have said before the only way to really balance the situation is to actually put aim assist in pvp. The weapons currently used are used because they have this functionality and low skill cap. Shotgun and cloak to move in? no brainer and hard to miss at that range. Infectors? they home in then spawn bugs that home in and explode.*atm the only thing infectors dont do is scratch your *** from outer space* I would include bmgs but lets be honest it does little damage. The scopes tend to suck for most weapons so again no reason to use them in pvp.

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Originally Posted by Giizis

Which is easily fixed with an option to turn it off. For those who may not be quite as...skillled...no aim assist just forces them into weapons they CAN hit with. Which everyone complains about. See the dilemma? Besides, he's not talking about tab targeting or snap-to. If you read his other thread (which he should have referenced) he's actually suggesting a sort of slight magnetism only when the opponent is hovered over. Just enough to make it harder to for the target to rolldodge/jump away from every bullet. Not even a full magnetism either...if he stayed still and kept shooting and failed to adjust as the opponent ran away, he wouldn't auto-aim onto them. It would require aiming, it would just help to strengthen the worst bits.

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I would still doubt how much it helps though.

The problem with direct damage guns in this game is, the damage difference between a headshot and a non-headshot is just too big. Auto-aim (whether it is just for tracking or auto-aiming) is not going to help much.

Besides, that now also opens a problem of another can of worms, which is how intelligent is the aim-assist in identifying targets - if people are hiding just behind a wall, will the aim-assist be smart enough to not register that target? What about speed boosted target or stealthies? If aim-assist is intelligent enough to track those (or at least track it to the very last moment of the ability kicking in) then this would really kill 2 major EGO abilities in pvp (although on the flipside I myself is not a fan of EGO powers in pvp in the first place).

I'm just raising points that I think should be considered.

I would assume only targets in sight. I mean, does PvE aim assist go through walls and cloak? I don't think it does, but I'm not sure (I don't use it).

The problem isn't the damage difference between a headshot and a bodyshot. If it were, SRs would be much more popular...but as it is it's practically impossible to headshot someone on purpose. The main weapons played right now are Shotguns, Infectors, BMGs, Detonators, RLs, etc. All things which vastly improve aim and none of which are really all about the headshots.

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Originally Posted by aRtFuL

I would still doubt how much it helps though.

The problem with direct damage guns in this game is, the damage difference between a headshot and a non-headshot is just too big. Auto-aim (whether it is just for tracking or auto-aiming) is not going to help much.

Besides, that now also opens a problem of another can of worms, which is how intelligent is the aim-assist in identifying targets - if people are hiding just behind a wall, will the aim-assist be smart enough to not register that target? What about speed boosted target or stealthies? If aim-assist is intelligent enough to track those (or at least track it to the very last moment of the ability kicking in) then this would really kill 2 major EGO abilities in pvp (although on the flipside I myself is not a fan of EGO powers in pvp in the first place).

I'm just raising points that I think should be considered.

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If you read the thread that Giizis already told you about (I agree, I should have linked to it) and read the aim assist suggested he is right. There is no tracking or auto aiming. It's simply put an assistant that reduces your sensitivity when you're directly looking at a target, this way you're still doing all the aiming yourself in every way, the only difference is that once you aim at him yourself it may be a bit harder to get off the target. I'm really curious where you got wall tracking from, why would you ever be able to aim assist through walls??

I have to disagree. Main reason being as others have said aim assist can really end up screwing with your ability to land headshots. I always turn aim assist off anyway in shooters when the option is available so it might just be something I'm accoustomed to. I usually play with a TAC assault rifle and shotgun (blur... don't get the wrong idea) and the mid-long range accuracy and damage seems fine to me. And if there's auto-aim on the shotguns I haven't really noticed, because at the effective range it wouldn't matter much anyway.

I just don't see how having the game do more of the work for you would equate to it being more "skillful"; a subjective term to be sure. If anything it seems like the guns with auto aim would have to either have to have assistance reduced, or the damage balanced to take into account the ease of use. Of the weapons mentioned (not including shotguns because I don't think they auto-aim and they're only problematic with cloak and certain perks, which has been beaten to death) only the infectors I have issue with. They do seem out of whack. BMGs are usually easy pickings.

Simply put EVERYONE, except people xploiting auto aim on some weapons and area effects on others, want some form of magnetism or a sensitivity slider for ADS. Im not gonna sit here and give shotgunners crap because its not their fault Trion made the other guns obsolete.

I agree with this thread wholeheartedly. I just wonder would /could they do it?

I sure it isn't just a case of turning it on. From what I remember from wen I used to have it on in PvE it was very CoD style snapping onto targets. which allows quick scoping & is probably why they turned it off for PvP, I know thats why I did

Makes me wonder if they are even capable of such a aim assist system, or surely they would of gone with that in the first place?

Hope im wrong :)

Well where do i start. First off i don't PvP much but I've have done enough to figure out a few things.

1. The Pvp maps aside from Shadow Wars (Minus Freight yard) are way too small to even use anything other than area effect weapons or homing weapons. (Shotguns, detonators, launchers, and Infectors.)
To me that shouldn't be the case however time and time again that's what people are using because those weapons require very little to no aiming needed to killed.

Assault Rifles, Saws, Pistols, and Sniper rifles all require some type of aim to even work half decently.
Trying to hip fire anything but pistols and Assault Rifles will get you killed quickly.
The current pvp maps do not help these weapon type because they are too close quarters to be of any usefulness that's why we see 90% of the people in pvp maps with shotguns. (if they don't have a shotgun in their load out i tend to call newbie.)

2. Shadow war is a different beast all together. (So would freight yard but that has been put in then yanked for bug fixes. I'm still waiting to see what it's like here.) While the majority of TDM maps are close quarters battles. Shadow war helps those who use weapons other than the common ones found in the PvP maps. Due to the fact that you have clear line of sight for 80m without running into some object. (sometimes) Not only that but you have much more room to maneuver without rolling or running into some object.(most of the time.) However you still see the above weapons quite frequently because some people have built their pvp load out for the PvP maps and really don't want to change them for Shadow Wars. Many time I've run across Infector,detonator,or Launcher peeps only to mow them down with my blast rifle. Shotgunning peeps need to get close so they are easily handled at medium range. I have yet not been killed by a Sniper in Shadow wars.

Now that all being said certain things do need to be improved. Sniper rifles do need to have some sort of aim assist. Because right now unless your totally daft at avoiding fire or really freaking good with them they are just near useless. You have what at the most two seconds before the target your aiming at is out of view from your scope?

Pistols are in the grey category while some do high damage and have a low ROF other have medium Damage and medium ROF. Their shot groupings tend to be pretty tight but the ammo count before reload sucks. So technically it's up to the player to use them in pvp or not.

SMG's fast fire rate, crap damage, and tight shot grouping. Some no aiming needed. I'm on the fence on this one while they can dump ammo quickly you tend to need at least 1 to 1.5 mags to kill a guy from full shields to dead. TTK wise not useful.

In all it about using the weapon with a faster TTK than the other players depending on the map. Bigger maps tend to draw people not using the same old Flavor Build. Its because when you first see the enemy you start to shoot him. So in CQC you tend to see the enemy when he's at the most 5 to 10m away sometimes 20m but even that's stretching it. With Shadow wars you tend to see the enemy about 20 - 50m away which makes most medium range weapons useful. So you see more weapon variety in shadow wars over the PVP maps.

Should their be aim assist in PVP? This is quite debatable but if your looking for a skilled based pvp system then you have to leave it out. (Why Trion decided to put guided launchers and homing infectors in is anyone guess.) However even though I have said this work still needs to be done with the sniper rifles in pvp. (And no i'm the type of guy who hates the daylights out of snipetards. But you also have to balance it so they can be viable instead of dead weight. As of right now most wannabe snipers are dead weight.)

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Originally Posted by Tango80

Well where do i start. First off i don't PvP much but I've have done enough to figure out a few things.

1. The Pvp maps aside from Shadow Wars (Minus Freight yard) are way too small to even use anything other than area effect weapons or homing weapons. (Shotguns, detonators, launchers, and Infectors.)
To me that shouldn't be the case however time and time again that's what people are using because those weapons require very little to no aiming needed to killed.

Assault Rifles, Saws, Pistols, and Sniper rifles all require some type of aim to even work half decently.
Trying to hip fire anything but pistols and Assault Rifles will get you killed quickly.
The current pvp maps do not help these weapon type because they are too close quarters to be of any usefulness that's why we see 90% of the people in pvp maps with shotguns. (if they don't have a shotgun in their load out i tend to call newbie.)

2. Shadow war is a different beast all together. (So would freight yard but that has been put in then yanked for bug fixes. I'm still waiting to see what it's like here.) While the majority of TDM maps are close quarters battles. Shadow war helps those who use weapons other than the common ones found in the PvP maps. Due to the fact that you have clear line of sight for 80m without running into some object. (sometimes) Not only that but you have much more room to maneuver without rolling or running into some object.(most of the time.) However you still see the above weapons quite frequently because some people have built their pvp load out for the PvP maps and really don't want to change them for Shadow Wars. Many time I've run across Infector,detonator,or Launcher peeps only to mow them down with my blast rifle. Shotgunning peeps need to get close so they are easily handled at medium range. I have yet not been killed by a Sniper in Shadow wars.

Now that all being said certain things do need to be improved. Sniper rifles do need to have some sort of aim assist. Because right now unless your totally daft at avoiding fire or really freaking good with them they are just near useless. You have what at the most two seconds before the target your aiming at is out of view from your scope?

Pistols are in the grey category while some do high damage and have a low ROF other have medium Damage and medium ROF. Their shot groupings tend to be pretty tight but the ammo count before reload sucks. So technically it's up to the player to use them in pvp or not.

SMG's fast fire rate, crap damage, and tight shot grouping. Some no aiming needed. I'm on the fence on this one while they can dump ammo quickly you tend to need at least 1 to 1.5 mags to kill a guy from full shields to dead. TTK wise not useful.

In all it about using the weapon with a faster TTK than the other players depending on the map. Bigger maps tend to draw people not using the same old Flavor Build. Its because when you first see the enemy you start to shoot him. So in CQC you tend to see the enemy when he's at the most 5 to 10m away sometimes 20m but even that's stretching it. With Shadow wars you tend to see the enemy about 20 - 50m away which makes most medium range weapons useful. So you see more weapon variety in shadow wars over the PVP maps.

Should their be aim assist in PVP? This is quite debatable but if your looking for a skilled based pvp system then you have to leave it out. (Why Trion decided to put guided launchers and homing infectors in is anyone guess.) However even though I have said this work still needs to be done with the sniper rifles in pvp. (And no i'm the type of guy who hates the daylights out of snipetards. But you also have to balance it so they can be viable instead of dead weight. As of right now most wannabe snipers are dead weight.)

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I wouldn't say that the smaller PvP maps in general are too small to use assault rifles, to me that's not a good observation, but then again I might be biased because I am one of the very few to use assault rifles on Observatory/Waterfront. I use assault rifles on Observatory all the time. The reason I say the maps aren't small enough for this to be true is because the map isn't just the building. Mostly everyone goes into the building but I personally stay on the roof throughout the entire match with an AR and Shotgun(For those in the building who come to the roof). I use my AR to kill everyone on the map, and have an amazing view with a good accuracy and height advantage. On waterfront it's a similar scenario with the rooftop in the middle of the map.

Ok I did say this is competitive only conversation, but... I will still reply to your reasoning towards shadow war.
I don't agree with the fact you see a significant differentiation with weapons in Shadow War. I am still being killed by the same weapons. I will agree that there is a smaller portion of these homing/aoe weapons, there still isn't even close to a majority in ARs, SMGs, LMGs, Pistols and Snipers. There are very few still. It is not enough to be a significant change. This is what I see, if long range weapons would be alot more beneficial in shadow war due to a much vaster terrain and larger maps, why are CQC/Homing/AoE weapons still being abused in shadow war? To me this proves that it isn't just the size of the map that affects which weapons would be primarily used, it seems evident that the weapons themselves are obsolete, otherwise they would completely prosper in shadow war.

Let's also keep in mind I don't want snap aim assist but yes, you put up some good arguments while I have to say I disagree with most of what you say I will respect your points.

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Originally Posted by AbsoluteDeicide

I have to disagree. Main reason being as others have said aim assist can really end up screwing with your ability to land headshots. I always turn aim assist off anyway in shooters when the option is available so it might just be something I'm accoustomed to. I usually play with a TAC assault rifle and shotgun (blur... don't get the wrong idea) and the mid-long range accuracy and damage seems fine to me. And if there's auto-aim on the shotguns I haven't really noticed, because at the effective range it wouldn't matter much anyway.

I just don't see how having the game do more of the work for you would equate to it being more "skillful"; a subjective term to be sure. If anything it seems like the guns with auto aim would have to either have to have assistance reduced, or the damage balanced to take into account the ease of use. Of the weapons mentioned (not including shotguns because I don't think they auto-aim and they're only problematic with cloak and certain perks, which has been beaten to death) only the infectors I have issue with. They do seem out of whack. BMGs are usually easy pickings.

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It would have taken less time to read the actual thread and not the title than it does to write an irrelivent two paragraph post.

In the thread I didn't really argue for aim assist, that seems to be the point you're all bringing up though anyways. But anyways, there has been replies already in the thread saying to avoid any type of snap assistant, and in my other threads in the signature. I don't blame you for not seeing the outsource links, but I will still clarify that for you. If you don't want aim assist and already turn it off in games, I don't get why you're even arguing against aim assist.

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Originally Posted by AbsoluteDeicide

I just don't see how having the game do more of the work for you would equate to it being more "skillful"; a subjective term to be sure.

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See... Now you gentlemen know who i'm talking about....

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Originally Posted by Slay

First of all I expect 99% of the replies to be either people who don't read the thread, go off the title, don't understand the thread, don't play PvP or can't put up any good educated argument.

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Originally Posted by Slay

I don't suck at PvP. I've made PvP threads before and a good chunk of replies assumes i'm bad and that's the motive for writing the thread. I write a thread like this for the self evident truths that the developers will never figure out on their own to fix.

First of all I expect 99% of the replies to be either people who don't read the thread, go off the title, don't understand the thread, don't play PvP or can't put up any good educated argument. I take no mercy in replying to you when you make a dumb statement.

This is competitive discussion, not shadow war discussion. I play on the Xbox 360. Anyone claiming this game has skill in the PvP in conoles is so wrong. The biggest problem i've ever seen with PvP is in the fact there isn't any aim assist. Specifically PvP has guns that have strong aim assist making other guns completely obsolete in PvP. I'm very rarely killed by another AR, LMG, SMG, Pistol or Sniper user. I'm only killed by Detonators, Rocket Launchers/Guided Rocket Launchers, Shotguns, Sawed off shotguns, Infectors and Biomechanical Guns typically. The reason is aim assist.

The fact the developers take away aim assist in PvP is good! But then more than half the weapons in PvP have some type of homing/area of effect damage.... ARs, SMGs, LMGs, Pistols, and Snipers are completely obsolete when it comes to Detonators, Rocket Launchers and Guided Rocket Launchers, Shotguns, Sawed off Shotguns, Infectors and Biomechanical Guns. The developers have absolutely undermined every user who uses a rifle/pistol by adding homing and area of effect weapons. By removing aim assist but keeping it with certain weapons, where is the balance? Rifles have no place in PvP because of this. They should have just kept aim assist in the game if it were up to me, but i've made another thread to understand not many other people want aim assist in PvP so i'll just give up that argument.

I have a ton more information I go by, so if you want come at me. I can defend myself, and anyone who feels the need to defend me because they might agree please don't, i'll be fine. I've made tons of other PvP threads and play PvP avidly with friends enough.

/Discuss. Come at me, i'll give my opinions back, infact I will reply to ALL comments made on this thread no matter what, positive or negative. So expect a reply. :cool:

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basically what i get form your threads is you want sniping to be easier and ARs, LMGS, and SMGs, to be mroe usefull. while i agree with the fact thos eguns arne't the best for PvP they are still effective and i don't agree with the ways you want them to be adjusted. I do think that the infectors need to be nerfed though.

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Originally Posted by Upinya Slayin

basically what i get form your threads is you want sniping to be easier and ARs, LMGS, and SMGs, to be mroe usefull. while i agree with the fact thos eguns arne't the best for PvP they are still effective and i don't agree with the ways you want them to be adjusted. I do think that the infectors need to be nerfed though.

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Snipers are not effective in the slightest, pistols are barely effective. ARs, LMGs, SMGs are OK but could be better with aim assist. I'm not saying these weapons are horrible, but they are obsolete and need some sort of compensation for the lack of aim assist. I would like them to be easier, but the main point is for weapon variety and balance. These guns are undermined without aim assist and the reason they added homing/aoe weapons in a non aim assist game is beyond reasoning to me.

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Originally Posted by Slay

Snipers are not effective in the slightest, pistols are barely effective. ARs, LMGs, SMGs are OK but could be better with aim assist. I'm not saying these weapons are horrible, but they are obsolete and need some sort of compensation for the lack of aim assist. I would like them to be easier, but the main point is for weapon variety and balance. These guns are undermined without aim assist and the reason they added homing/aoe weapons in a non aim assist game is beyond reasoning to me.

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they did it for PvE game modes. devs when they add PvP as an afetrthought, which lets face it the TDM is kinda an afterthought they usually aren't aware of their own balance issues. Infectors and BMGs should be removed from PvP and then instanlty it becomes more balancd.

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Originally Posted by Upinya Slayin

they did it for PvE game modes. devs when they add PvP as an afetrthought, which lets face it the TDM is kinda an afterthought they usually aren't aware of their own balance issues. Infectors and BMGs should be removed from PvP and then instanlty it becomes more balancd.

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Definitely don't agree with infectors and BMGs being removed from PvP, and honestly I'd remove detonators before I removed BMGs (If I had to, I would choose to not remove anything though). Area of Effect weapons with massive radii and high damage is going to be a monster in PvP, and the fact there isn't a compensation or balanced weapons that might be able to take on a detonator is surprising. In honesty I will agree PvP was probably handled by a very small portion of their team, maybe 20 out of the 150 i'd say. The PvP maps are pretty insignificant and basic, without much testing and polishing as we see with freight yard and countless other flaws including weapon balance.

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Originally Posted by Slay

Definitely don't agree with infectors and BMGs being removed from PvP, and honestly I'd remove detonators before I removed BMGs (If I had to, I would choose to not remove anything though). Area of Effect weapons with massive radii and high damage is going to be a monster in PvP, and the fact there isn't a compensation or balanced weapons that might be able to take on a detonator is surprising. In honesty I will agree PvP was probably handled by a very small portion of their team, maybe 20 out of the 150 i'd say. The PvP maps are pretty insignificant and basic, without much testing and polishing as we see with freight yard and countless other flaws including weapon balance.

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wll i have to disagree with that. the damage output on detonators is low. and its the only thing in the game that can flush out people camping. aiming ins't easy, range is limited, and the damage done is directly related to the distance the enemy is from the explosion. a couriour is more damaging the a detonator with 1 shot doing almost 4k damage and it sticks to people. a direct shot with a couriour will kill anyone. and there is plenty of balance. in a CQC a shotgun will own it, at mid range a shotgun, LMG, SMG, AR will own it. at long range an infector, pistol or sniper will own it.
If you could only carrry 1 weapon nobody would use a detonator. its a situational tool IMO

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Originally Posted by Upinya Slayin

wll i have to disagree with that. the damage output on detonators is low. and its the only thing in the game that can flush out people camping. aiming ins't easy, range is limited, and the damage done is directly related to the distance the enemy is from the explosion. a couriour is more damaging the a detonator with 1 shot doing almost 4k damage and it sticks to people. a direct shot with a couriour will kill anyone. and there is plenty of balance. in a CQC a shotgun will own it, at mid range a shotgun, LMG, SMG, AR will own it. at long range an infector, pistol or sniper will own it.
If you could only carrry 1 weapon nobody would use a detonator. its a situational tool IMO

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Ok you're going off topic now. The point is to add compensation for weapons without aim assist, while making an argument and questioning why there are weapons with aim assist in a polar opposite PvP mechanic environment. If this is your way of fighting an argument by saying there are drawbacks to a detonator that make it balanced already I have to disagree, you can attach detonator mods for increased mag sizes and increased area of effect to correct everything your dissenting opinion has. Limited range is not a problem for detonators, I am not lying when I say i've been killed more than a couple times from the roof on observatory or the sniping tower from someone on ground level by someone lobbing the detonator. The range isn't limited at all, it is just a matter of how he aims it with the factor of drop taken into consideration which by the way isn't very hard at all. Not to make you look intentionally stupid but...

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Originally Posted by Upinya Slayin

the damage output on detonators is low. .... a couriour is more damaging the a detonator with 1 shot doing almost 4k damage and it sticks to people. a direct shot with a couriour will kill anyone.

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That's kind of obvious that a sawed off shotgun which is a completely different weapon with very minimalized range would do alot more damage than a detonator. Very bad contrast considering they are 2 completely different weapons. Again also to mention close quarter weapons aren't the main target of argument here, it's mostly homing/aoe. Also I will disagree with your claim of detonators doing low damage eitherway.

Am i the only one that got frustrated with aim assist and turned it off in PvE? I dont get all the complainers.. Just turn it of in PVE and learn to play without it for a couple weeks. Learn how to aim and you'll be fine in PVP because there wont be any difference, just faster moving enemies.

I'd venture to say that playing the game is actually EASIER without aim assist. but thats just me i guess.

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Originally Posted by Slay

Ok you're going off topic now. The point is to add compensation for weapons without aim assist, while making an argument and questioning why there are weapons with aim assist in a polar opposite PvP mechanic environment. If this is your way of fighting an argument by saying there are drawbacks to a detonator that make it balanced already I have to disagree, you can attach detonator mods for increased mag sizes and increased area of effect to correct everything your dissenting opinion has. Limited range is not a problem for detonators, I am not lying when I say i've been killed more than a couple times from the roof on observatory or the sniping tower from someone on ground level by someone lobbing the detonator. The range isn't limited at all, it is just a matter of how he aims it with the factor of drop taken into consideration which by the way isn't very hard at all.

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i see your argument but i don't think making automatic weapons easier to sue or snipers easier to use is the best way to balance it. They should just remove the homing on infectors and make them harder to use to match the other wepaons

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Not to make you look intentionally stupid but...



That's kind of obvious that a sawed off shotgun which is a completely different weapon with very minimalized range would do alot more damage than a detonator. Very bad contrast considering they are 2 completely different weapons. Again also to mention close quarter weapons aren't the main target of argument here, it's mostly homing/aoe. Also I will disagree with your claim of detonators doing low damage eitherway.

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umm not to make you look stupid but do you know what a courior is? it fires sticky explosives. its a detonator labeled as a shotugn but more powerfull. the highest base damage detonator i seen is 1515 while the lwoest courior i seen is 1919 and it fries 2 of them in 1 shot. hence 1 shot doing lamost 4k damage compared to 1 shot from a detonator doing 1500 damage. I wans't comparing to standard shotgun that shoots pellets or shells.

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Originally Posted by Tainerif

Am i the only one that got frustrated with aim assist and turned it off in PvE? I dont get all the complainers.. Just turn it of in PVE and learn to play without it for a couple weeks. Learn how to aim and you'll be fine in PVP because there wont be any difference, just faster moving enemies.

I'd venture to say that playing the game is actually EASIER without aim assist. but thats just me i guess.

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people want to think they are better tehn they are. and PvE games make you feel like god mode. soaking damage and one shotting eveyrthing like a boss. But then those same people come to PvP modes, get desrtoyed and think, why it can't be me. It must be the game and this and that and want the game to be made easier fro them.

Now don't get me wrong. some games do have terrible balance. GoW has its gnahser, ME3 has its GI, AC3 has its smokebomb etc. all legtimate concerns of balance. I'm not saying definace is perfectly balanced either but overall its not terrible

well said Upinya, and unfortunately so true, I like to think of it as the "hand holding generation" of gamers. Instant gratification is expected and all that. I don't like it, but I come from a different stock of pure-PVP'ers I suppose.

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Originally Posted by Tainerif

well said Upinya, and unfortunately so true, I like to think of it as the "hand holding generation" of gamers. Instant gratification is expected and all that. I don't like it, but I come from a different stock of pure-PVP'ers I suppose.

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That's why so many of them gravitate towards towards CoD since the game tells you to use these perks with this smg and you can get many kills and even worse was modern warfare 3 which gave people killstreak even if they died. Many PvP oriented games are going towards a CoD style game since it is one of the most popular for such a long time with a simple setup.

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Originally Posted by mbergeron

That's why so many of them gravitate towards towards CoD since the game tells you to use these perks with this smg and you can get many kills and even worse was modern warfare 3 which gave people killstreak even if they died. Many PvP oriented games are going towards a CoD style game since it is one of the most popular for such a long time with a simple setup.

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yeah, and that's fine for CoD. they appeal to badkids. However I personally think it's completely ******ed. But that's great for them. Maybe im nostalgic for back in the days when there was an actual learning curve to games. Now its just "**beep beep** press A to climb the ladder, Alert! You're injured! Double tap X to roll to cover!"

*&^^(ing stupid

they just need bigger PVP maps everything is so close quarters right now it's practically a bad idea NOT to bring a shotgun...
I mostly do shadow wars and aside from facing a team of infector as***les i think they're great.

Also killing a Cerberus without a lock on launcher is easy as can be I've seen the driver get sawed offed to
the face and everyone else die from immobility, let alone when i get them in range of my big boomer.

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Originally Posted by Tainerif

yeah, and that's fine for CoD. they appeal to badkids. However I personally think it's completely ******ed. But that's great for them. Maybe im nostalgic for back in the days when there was an actual learning curve to games. Now its just "**beep beep** press A to climb the ladder, Alert! You're injured! Double tap X to roll to cover!"

*&^^(ing stupid

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The problem is most younger games (not gonna say all, i have some people are are in their teens on my FL that aren't like this at all) grew up in a place where people got trophies for participating so they didn't make kids feel. they don't hit their kids. Kids odn't go outside and play sports becuase they have iphones and ipads by the time they are 7. and parents give kids games like GTA at the age of 10 where they run over hookers and spawn jets and run aorund killing eveyrone w/o an issues. then the same kids grow up thinking they are video games gods with their participation trophies and god mode PvE games with cheat codes. Then they get online at a PvP game and get killed and can't understand how its possible w/o epople cheating, hakcing, or the game being broken. and whine about it and complain. Perosnally i grew up where video games were hard. where you would switch with your firends to get past certain parts in games. where you idn't have internet for advice or cheats or anything. where you dind't have auto saves. where we went' outside and played real sports with friends and didn't have a cell phone until i was 16 and it had 1 game on it, snake. I play as a hobby for fun. I enjoy games. If i feels omehting is broken its not becuase i'm losing and i'm not gonna rage over it. I'm gonna explain why i feel somehting should be changed based on my opinion for discussion. If people don't agree that fine.
/rant

LMAO yeah pretty much what he(or she maybe) said^^^^

If you cant get a kill without needing target assist, stay out of PVP matches. This isnt Modern Warfare where you can quick scope and snap lock onto your targets in PVP and see who wins simply by who pulled the trigger first. I agree with Upinya, this isnt a "win simply by showing up" kind of game. There are no "participation" awards at the end, either you have skill and can win, or you dont and you lose.

Personally, I love that this game has no cheats or hacks available to it [yet], it means each player is relying purely on their own dedication and skill rather than access to a mod/hack site to give you god mode and infinite ammo.

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Originally Posted by The Oncoming Storm

LMAO yeah pretty much what he(or she maybe) said^^^^

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If i was a girl, i'd be playing with my boobs instead of posting on this forum lol

Disclaimer, this is just a joke. Don't take it seriously please :)

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Originally Posted by Upinya Slayin

i see your argument but i don't think making automatic weapons easier to sue or snipers easier to use is the best way to balance it. They should just remove the homing on infectors and make them harder to use to match the other wepaons





umm not to make you look stupid but do you know what a courior is? it fires sticky explosives. its a detonator labeled as a shotugn but more powerfull. the highest base damage detonator i seen is 1515 while the lwoest courior i seen is 1919 and it fries 2 of them in 1 shot. hence 1 shot doing lamost 4k damage compared to 1 shot from a detonator doing 1500 damage. I wans't comparing to standard shotgun that shoots pellets or shells.

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Yes unfortunately that's what you get for googling "courier defiance" lol.
I was misunderstanding you, because you said.

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Originally Posted by Upinya Slayin

the damage output on detonators is low ... a couriour(another detonator) is more damaging the a detonator with 1 shot doing almost 4k damage and it sticks to people. a direct shot with a couriour will kill anyone.

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I'm not sure if i'm still misunderstanding you or you just contradicted what you said or what, tbh i'm probably the one confused here. Try and explain it a little better please?

Sorry, this was what I was referring to on IGN.
http://gyazo.com/889bd14d8a9c45309259586dd784b58f.png

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Originally Posted by Daemeos

If you cant get a kill without needing target assist, stay out of PVP matches. This isnt Modern Warfare where you can quick scope and snap lock onto your targets in PVP and see who wins simply by who pulled the trigger first. I agree with Upinya, this isnt a "win simply by showing up" kind of game. There are no "participation" awards at the end, either you have skill and can win, or you dont and you lose.

Personally, I love that this game has no cheats or hacks available to it [yet], it means each player is relying purely on their own dedication and skill rather than access to a mod/hack site to give you god mode and infinite ammo.

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only cause were on xbox. the PC folks have to deal with cheaters all the time lol

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Originally Posted by Slay

Yes unfortunately that's what you get for googling "courier defiance" lol.
I was misunderstanding you, because you said.



I'm not sure if i'm still misunderstanding you or you just contradicted what you said or what, tbh i'm probably the one confused here. Try and explain it a little better please?

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Soory i mean the courier (another shotgun) i accidentally called it a detonator. I was just making the point that this shotgun makes most detonaors obsolete if you have a good one

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Originally Posted by Upinya Slayin

only cause were on xbox. the PC folks have to deal with cheaters all the time lol

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I dont think even the PC players have a lot of cheaters, not for this game anyway. Unless they are completely different than ours, their character info is still saved to the games servers rather than to their system. There would be no files to edit or hack, much like World of Warcraft. Since I dont play this one on PC, I cant say with 100% certainty that there are NO cheats for it, but I havent heard of any yet, aside from the occasional exploitable glitch, and we have those on xbox as well.

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Originally Posted by Upinya Slayin

people want to think they are better tehn they are. and PvE games make you feel like god mode. soaking damage and one shotting eveyrthing like a boss. But then those same people come to PvP modes, get desrtoyed and think, why it can't be me. It must be the game and this and that and want the game to be made easier fro them.

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Totally generalizing people first of all, that is not the case. I made that clear in the first paragraph of the thread also not to generalize or assume about skill, especially because that's not the reasoning of the thread. It's to even out a whopping 50% of guns that are completely obsolete in PvP.

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Originally Posted by Upinya Slayin

Now don't get me wrong. some games do have terrible balance. GoW has its gnahser, ME3 has its GI, AC3 has its smokebomb etc. all legtimate concerns of balance. I'm not saying definace is perfectly balanced either but overall its not terrible

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By comparing it to other bad game setups doesn't give this game an excuse to do nothing about the horrible balance.

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Originally Posted by Daemeos

If you cant get a kill without needing target assist, stay out of PVP matches. This isnt Modern Warfare where you can quick scope and snap lock onto your targets in PVP and see who wins simply by who pulled the trigger first. I agree with Upinya, this isnt a "win simply by showing up" kind of game. There are no "participation" awards at the end, either you have skill and can win, or you dont and you lose.

Personally, I love that this game has no cheats or hacks available to it [yet], it means each player is relying purely on their own dedication and skill rather than access to a mod/hack site to give you god mode and infinite ammo.

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Ok hacks and mods have nothing to do with this thread firstly, and LOL. This has NOTHING to do with other games or their mechanics, I don't care if you disagree with aim assist but saying this is a 'Win simply by showing up' kind of game is impossible, someone always loses. There is XP gained from kills and keycodes awarded on default, that counts as participation and xp is rewarded for your mlg hot pants noscope skills. I seriously wonder if you even know what this thread is about.