LOL to say that the shootgun is not the problem is just plain stupid, you can own with shootgun with any of the powers thats just fact, if you cant see that your the one who sucks at pvp coz you cant play with any other weapon and just make up an excuse to use it
all guns are shootguns. Shotguns are not OP, cloak is.Quote:
Originally Posted by sammael
well Shotguns by themselves are not OP, same as cloak... by its self it is not OP, but combo Shotgun+Cloak+Shadowed Strike and then it gets silly... high burst, invis, shield regen, 30% more damage... yikes... I say cut off shield regen and I would be golden with it... not fair to almost kill someone and they break LOS or you have to reload and then they are back at full health when you hit them again... for 20s...Quote:
Originally Posted by fang1192
The people in here defending shotguns like they're not OP are absurd. You don't need cloak, you don't need speed. You just need to be within 10 meters of them and be able to jump. You win, easy.
It's not the map, it's not the powers, it's the guns that can burn you down in half a second. This is obvious.
You realize that the cloak is what helps you get within 10 meters of them right? Without a way to get in close, people would just fall back on medium range weapons. Blur works pretty well, but you need to be pretty skilled with it because timing is pretty important.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZedekDavies
If you can't kill a shotgunner who's bunny hopping, that just means you lack the skills for timing. I've gone head to head against bunny hoppers before. Time it right and you can kill them. Once, I was able to time it so I jumped at the same time, we both went up and he took a shotgun blast to the chest which killed him.
People who cry about shotguns and cloaks will always find something to cry about. When I find a bunny hopper, I just wait until they land before firing. If you are running around and just blasting away, you'll run out of rounds before you land any hits. Bunny hopping still requires you to shift your aim too. It amazes me how many people don't just roll backwards or side to side when they encounter someone hopping. Roll backwards and use your ranged weapon. If you also use a shotgun, then the onus is on you to find the right timing to kill your rabbit.
Also, I bunny hop when I use my AR1 rocket launcher and I kill people too. HAHA. People seem to like to run straight at me even though they're getting hit with my rockets. Seriously. PVP is more than just "get in their face and hold down the trigger until your mag empties." Anyone who complains about something being OP needs to adjust their play style and stop crying.
First let me say I rarely use shotguns in PvP (anyone who says they didn't even try it to see the hype is a liar :-p), and many people on here know I number crunch things, so I know shotguns are silly strong, but not the end all be all gun, but they are kings of close combat. Lets play a little devil's advocate here though... what gun NEEDs an ability to be able to kill? If I recall correctly none do... I can kill you with a BMG or heck even melee, might take longer but it can kill without any abilities/perks... so yeah... next Range, what would be an acceptable range for a 10-12 gauge (for the non-gun savvy, 8 pellets in a 10-12 gauge 2 3/4" shell is 00 buckshot which are 8.4mm, or .33" or 1/3 inch diameter EACH pellet which is just shy of a 9mm bullet, 12 pellets tend to be #2 shot which are 6.9mm, 0.27" diameter each pellet, which are about the size of a .22 bullet (would say .223 or a 5.56 but they are rifle rounds and different ballistics apply to them... yeah yeah I know .22 LR, and .22 MWR are rifle rounds... but they are also revolver/semi-auto pistol rounds too) to be able to kill? 10 meters IRL seems really low when 00 shot is effective up to 50 yards easy against soft targets (no body armor) BUT we are wearing body armor, which breaks just as easy as our health bar... but most of the shotguns in game zap, burn (Fire or acid), irradiate, poop (bio-waste... ewww), or syphon (how do you relate that IRL?!?)... so in game shotguns are WEAK compared to IRL shotguns... OK now for Responsibility... yes it is player responsibility to survive, and because someone got close to you... is it their fault or yours? players do not magicly teleport to 10 meters of an enemy when they switch to shotguns... I get tunnel vision more then I would like and run into a group of enemies trying to kill 1 guy, or the random cloak+gunner who tries to one-two shot me, and I compensate by stacking defensive perks to be able to live longer, and either get away or finish them off. WOW... with all this said I do think Shotguns are stronger then they should be (at least 12 pellet sawed-offs, and pumps, and full auto pumps), but I would not call them OP by themselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZedekDavies
Yes because in this game you cannot get within 10 meters of somebody without cloak.Quote:
Originally Posted by Justified
Amazing.
Also you just narrated a story about how you countered a bunny hopping shotgunner by bunny hopping and killing him with a shotgun. Bravo.
It's not impossible to get in close without cloak, but it's pretty hard, especially if it's one on one. Post a video of you consistently getting close without dying before you get in range please. Also, the story was just to illustrate that bunny hoppers can be killed if you have the right timing. Apparently, you completely glossed over my point. Bravo.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZedekDavies
Hrm. I have never actually tried cloak/shotgun and have never used a pump shotgun (90% of shotguns used) at all. I am stubborn like that. I use a zerker, which right now is kind of the red-headed step child of the shotguns, but most of my kills come from my HAC AR.
I agree with most of the posters on here in that the problem is multifaceted, but shotguns are part of it in my opinion, just not as great an extent as most people think. So, in shotguns you have 8 pellet regular guns, 12 pellet scatter type guns, and sluggers. In most games, the fewer the pellets the more the damage but the less forgiving the aiming. Slugs should have very high damage and very tight aiming, with the longest range. Scatterguns should have the lowest damage with the widest spread and the shortest range.
However, I get the sense it doesn't work that way at all. Instead, the greatest damage (I think) is actually the most forgiving of the shotguns, the scatterguns. I would need someone to confirm that though (is there no item database website?).
What's the damage per slug for sluggers?
What's the x12 damage for spread guns in both pump and combat?
What's the x8 damage for regular shotties in both pump and combat?
It's hard to get in close? Wow. I assumed you'd played some PVP before but now I'm honestly unsure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Justified
Yes sure I'll make a video of me walking up to somebody in PVP just to prove to some random person on the net that it's possible to get in close to somebody without using cloak. That's definitely going to happen.
Woops! Look! People already did it for me. That was an exceptionally difficult YouTube search: "Defiance PVP shotguns".
You mean bunny hoppers can be killed by having good timing, a shotgun and bunny hopping, as your story illustraited. You literally made my point for me -- which I guess I have to spell out for you -- which is that shotguns cannot be countered unless they're with another shotgun. Thanks for that.
This is an absurd discussion, if you've at all played PVP this last week you'll have noticed that PVP is dominated by shotguns. It's impossible to miss and needs to be fixed.