Ideas for classes/making alts more viable (long)

At the moment we have 2 races and 4 classes but all these really count for are skins and a few throw away weapons. With a new race looming somewhere on the horizon should Trion be looking at giving these classes a bit more depth?

By encouraging players to create alts and improving the role playing aspects we as players will be more emotionally involved with our characters and the game as a whole, which leads to playing more and hopefully (from trions point of view) buying more.

So continuing on from that these are my suggestions, i think they would be better as pve only and they are just rough ideas but hopefully food for thought for the devs.

Human - slightly faster reload
Irathient - slightly faster melee

Veteran -hack turrets faster
Survivalist -faster revives
Outlaw - more scrip/ammo loot
Machinist - higher salvage from breakdown

These are really basic ideas but would add some flavour. If you have any ideas or thoughts on this then post away my fellow arkhunters, lets have a positive constructive thread. Thanks

WTF?!

And that's how classes are getting overpowered. I wouldnt play Irathient Veteran due to your ideas. Human Outlaw/Machinist seems the best option.

Try better next time :)

No, I throw up on having Defiance origins and races being anything else than cosmetic. I would not mind if there were variations in the story though based on your race/origin. THERE ARE NO CLASSES! Just origins.

Well these ideas were more for PvE only so overpowering isn't a massive issue and they are from a more role playing stand point.

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Originally Posted by Grant

Try better next time :)

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Maybe you would like to make some suggestions of your own thereby increasing the value of this thread?

Bonuses are not needed for roleplaying. Story/Mission/Dialogue variations would be a far better option.

Even if I like how it is now, could have be a good suggestion, and the idea that you throw are good.

But... but the problem is always the same, ppl will all do the same race/class that is the most powerful or usefull (here human/outlaw).
With the system that we have now, choice are only cosmetic (just like for outfit) and I don't want to see clone everywhere (it's almost).

I don't want to be forced onto an alt. Ever.

I think my problem with how it is now is there is realistically only 4 choices, race and gender. If the "origins" have no benifit why have them at all? Why not just have initial outfit and weapon choice a part of character creation and get rid of origins all together.

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Originally Posted by Schwa

I don't want to be forced onto an alt. Ever.

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Why would you be forced onto an alt? This would only be minor differences for those who "choose" to run them.

Edit : Blackwolfe I completely agree with you but I can't see it happening in this game.

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Originally Posted by Lone Wanderer

Well these ideas were more for PvE only so overpowering isn't a massive issue and they are from a more role playing stand point.



Maybe you would like to make some suggestions of your own thereby increasing the value of this thread?

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Yes,

You asked for constructive discussion and I disobeyed :)

Well I would go for Classes. Like special abilities, or even Class Skill Tree.

Veteran - Average range DPS/Tank Spec
Survivalist - Melee/Short range DPS with more CC
Outlaw - Long range DPS/Healing spec
Machinist - Tank spec/ average range DPS

What skilles? I don't know, maybe for example:

Machinist, Defensive stance +10% armor, -5% DPS
Outlaw, Sniper stance, +25m bullet range, -10% reload

Something like that.

But still, I don't have problem or strong wish to change actual system.

Class system would be attractive to me since I like to make my Character more personal. But for now it is also possible.

Edit: I think I could messed Survibalist with Outlaw, I don't remember which of them starting with Shotgun.

I would like a perk that increases healing out, a perk for increased aggro, a perk for increased snare, and a silencer type perk for less aggro. Because there are no specific classes we wouldnt ever be forced to take these perks but it would add depth and feel to the combat style for those of us that like to tank crowd control or heal. Would also add strategic teamplay in pvp.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lone Wanderer

At the moment we have 2 races and 4 classes but all these really count for are skins and a few throw away weapons. With a new race looming somewhere on the horizon should Trion be looking at giving these classes a bit more depth?

By encouraging players to create alts and improving the role playing aspects we as players will be more emotionally involved with our characters and the game as a whole, which leads to playing more and hopefully (from trions point of view) buying more.

So continuing on from that these are my suggestions, i think they would be better as pve only and they are just rough ideas but hopefully food for thought for the devs.

Human - slightly faster reload
Irathient - slightly faster melee

Veteran -hack turrets faster
Survivalist -faster revives
Outlaw - more scrip/ammo loot
Machinist - higher salvage from breakdown

These are really basic ideas but would add some flavour. If you have any ideas or thoughts on this then post away my fellow arkhunters, lets have a positive constructive thread. Thanks

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You have not explained why classes and alts have to be viable in this game. There is no crafting system so crafting alts are not needed, there are loadouts so alts to perform a particular role in a group are not needed either. Fancy using a different weapon combo? just sling one on and fire away.

The only thing classes will bring to the game is fotm-itis and whining from pvp-ers because they think whatever class is overpowered. We already see this on the forums with whines about certain weapon/ability combos.

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Originally Posted by Grant

Yes,

You asked for constructive discussion and I disobeyed :)

Well I would go for Classes. Like special abilities, or even Class Skill Tree.

Veteran - Average range DPS/Tank Spec
Survivalist - Melee/Short range DPS with more CC
Outlaw - Long range DPS/Healing spec
Machinist - Tank spec/ average range DPS

What skilles? I don't know, maybe for example:

Machinist, Defensive stance +10% armor, -5% DPS
Outlaw, Sniper stance, +25m bullet range, -10% reload

Something like that.

But still, I don't have problem or strong wish to change actual system.

Class system would be attractive to me since I like to make my Character more personal. But for now it is also possible.

Edit: I think I could messed Survibalist with Outlaw, I don't remember which of them starting with Shotgun.

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Outlaw starts with shotgun.

I hope something like that will never happen. That would lead Defiance towards games like WoW and others which would be bad.

Do we really need another geberic mmo with classes, roles, instances/raids and forced group game play to progress?

Just look at EVE, that game is doing well without such things for years now.

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Originally Posted by Schwa

I don't want to be forced onto an alt. Ever.

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Is this just an oddly worded joke or something? I'm not following you on how this would "force" you onto an alt.

I was thinking synergy weapon mods for certain origins at best

rockapeUK, Classes don't need to be in this game at all IMO, however they are so I wanted to look at ways to improve them, I would be fine with them being removed all together. As far as alts are concerned Trion has as far as I'm aware not revealed if we will need to start an alt to use the new race or not so I was looking at ways of making an alt play through more unique(and therefore more viable) as it stands now there is no reason at all to start a new toon. Also I think anything like this would only be suitable for PvE for the reasons you have stated.

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Originally Posted by Lone Wanderer

Classes don't need to be in this game at all IMO, however they are so I wanted to look at ways to improve them,

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There are no classes in Defiance.

If it makes you happy you can replace the word classes with "origins" in all other posts ok ;)

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Originally Posted by Lone Wanderer

rockapeUK, Classes don't need to be in this game at all IMO, however they are so I wanted to look at ways to improve them, I would be fine with them being removed all together. As far as alts are concerned Trion has as far as I'm aware not revealed if we will need to start an alt to use the new race or not so I was looking at ways of making an alt play through more unique(and therefore more viable) as it stands now there is no reason at all to start a new toon. Also I think anything like this would only be suitable for PvE for the reasons you have stated.

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There is only one class in the game, Ark Hunter. There is simply no need to give a bonus depending on what race and origin a player chooses. Origins, or classes if you want to call them that, are background for our character and choice of starting weapon and outfit.

Once origin choice actually makes a difference to gameplay, an increase in damage for example from a lower reload time, then they will have to start balancing the origins even for PVE because you can guarantee that if a particular race and origin combo does more damage in Arkfalls there will be more whining on here than the turbines in the crashed New Freedom.

No ideas, because it doesn't need to happen. Trion already has enough on their plate, no need to add class balancing to the list.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lone Wanderer

At the moment we have 2 races and 4 classes but all these really count for are skins and a few throw away weapons. With a new race looming somewhere on the horizon should Trion be looking at giving these classes a bit more depth?

By encouraging players to create alts and improving the role playing aspects we as players will be more emotionally involved with our characters and the game as a whole, which leads to playing more and hopefully (from trions point of view) buying more.

So continuing on from that these are my suggestions, i think they would be better as pve only and they are just rough ideas but hopefully food for thought for the devs.

Human - slightly faster reload
Irathient - slightly faster melee

Veteran -hack turrets faster
Survivalist -faster revives
Outlaw - more scrip/ammo loot
Machinist - higher salvage from breakdown

These are really basic ideas but would add some flavour. If you have any ideas or thoughts on this then post away my fellow arkhunters, lets have a positive constructive thread. Thanks

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This qualifies as "long"? WTF is wrong with the world today...

Also, race/origin being purely cosmetic is one of the best design choices they made.

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Originally Posted by PhotriusPyrelus

This qualifies as "long"? WTF is wrong with the world today...

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I cringe sometimes when I see what people consider "TL: DR"

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Originally Posted by Lone Wanderer

If it makes you happy you can replace the word classes with "origins" in all other posts ok ;)

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Origins are and should remain cosmetic only.

I like the idea of the OP but honestly, the idea of rolling an alt would need some incentive beyond slight passive buffs and with multiple loadout options, there's no Ego power reason either. Outside of a serious overhaul in PvE story mode, it's really ill advised to alt in this game. Basically the only thing that would warrant alt'ing is something offering an experience (or utility) worth the time and effort you'd have to reinvest. Right now, the carrot isn't even on the stick as much as it's laying on the ground.

Ok, let me guess..no class mean Trion decided your skill should be the determining factor right???

Even though it takes absolutely no skill what so ever to..uhh, hold on a sec...ok, had to check the pursuit list to see how many thousand mobs I need to kill for 5ego.

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Originally Posted by Lone Wanderer

At the moment we have 2 races and 4 classes

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There are no classes. There's 4 origins which don't really do anything. Do I think the origins should do something, like alter the storyline somehow? Yes.

But I do not ever want classes in this game. I like that one character can do everything and there's no need to make alts. I always hated making alts in games that have an Achievement (pursuit) system, which is every game now. It's like, why make an alt when it's not going to be my main? Waste of time. This way, 1 main does everything.

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Originally Posted by PhotriusPyrelus

This qualifies as "long"? WTF is wrong with the world today...

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The first draft was long but I cut most of it out in editing.

So the general consensus is leave it be then? If that is the case then why can they not just remove origins and let us pick outfit/gun in character creation? Why force us into a bracket that has no effect on the game except restricting our own creativity?

I do understand why people don't want race differences, that's fair enough but I'm concerned about when the new race comes out, depending on how Trion implement it, either no one will start an alt because its pointless, or everyone who has the dlc will change races via in game change and we will be over populated with them.
If that all makes sense.

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Originally Posted by Blackwolfe

Bonuses are not needed for roleplaying. Story/Mission/Dialogue variations would be a far better option.

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This exactly. While I am not one to create many alts, I do typically to play through the extra story involved. Anything other than cosmetic differences though and I would be against the change. Don't want to be shoehorned into a specific combo because it is the best.

As far as new races in the DLC, some people may start over. Let's face it, leveling isn't all that hard and a lot of people have already finished the game. It will also attract people who just bought the game and want to start off with a brand new species.

Regarding the classes/ role playing, please don't forget that Trion has already said that Defiance is not an RPG. It's a TPS and they made it in mind not to have class specific roles, and to that extent, no racial abilities. You can day dream all you want, but your ideas for making classes and racial passives isn't going to happen.

Now, I'm not saying a shooter can't have classes, ie, Killzone 3, but Trion decided not to go that direction. It's a shame because if killzone was turned into an MMO, that would just be badass.

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Originally Posted by Blackwolfe

No, I throw up on having Defiance origins and races being anything else than cosmetic. I would not mind if there were variations in the story though based on your race/origin. THERE ARE NO CLASSES! Just origins.

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You might want to see a doctor about that...

What I would personally like to see would be.. Let's call them.. Legacy bonuses, making leveling alts slightly faster for those who wish to have alts (for cosmetic reasons), like for example if you have maxed one weapon or vehicle type.. You can level that skill slightly faster. Or even a way to share some gear like a shared stash/bank (also for saving items you might want to keep until weapon skill is maxed for example).

it's a good idea, there's no arguing that; classes do have benefits, but, not so much in this game. This would have had to have been implemented in the design phase, you can't really add these things after the fact, without forcing people to either restart, or giving them the option to completely change their character.

Wouldn't really push people into making a viable alt either, because they core mechanics don't change; you're still shooting stuff.

An alt is viable now - but only as a mule.

This game is not designed to have lots of depth it's designed to have a very shallow learning curve where new players can dive right in and start shooting and having fun. It's also designed around balance (which almost always fails miserably IMO) and the changes you describe unfortunately don't fit in with either the shallow learning curve or Trion's ideas about balance.

And unfortunately I don't ever see roles like tank or healer being viable. We'd need a better defined aggro system for tanks to work and some sort of experience gain for healing. And again, that requires depth and a steeper learning curve and I don't think Trion is going there.

in an ideal world trion releases all the races as playable and completely redesigns them each race featuring two unique abilities and perks rather than the 4. Humans are all round char, irathians dps focus, indogene have the tech angle so support/cc, sensoth take the hits/grab aggro, Castithan idk i gues dps oriented with more of a focus on melee combat. of course i doubt they'd ever do anything like this given what ive seen them do.

p.s.: I love people who say they dont want classes, but with the current perks and abilities they are playing a role whether they know it or not.

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Originally Posted by 3rdpig

This game is not designed to have lots of depth it's designed to have a very shallow learning curve where new players can dive right in and start shooting and having fun. It's also designed around balance (which almost always fails miserably IMO) and the changes you describe unfortunately don't fit in with either the shallow learning curve or Trion's ideas about balance.

And unfortunately I don't ever see roles like tank or healer being viable. We'd need a better defined aggro system for tanks to work and some sort of experience gain for healing. And again, that requires depth and a steeper learning curve and I don't think Trion is going there.

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possibly a better way to look at roles would be dps, support, leader. dps is a given, support is there to turn tides through crowd control, and leader could give passive buffs to himself and party to get that edge. This works even better with a boost in difficulty should they do it.

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Originally Posted by Blackwolfe

What I would personally like to see would be.. Let's call them.. Legacy bonuses, making leveling alts slightly faster for those who wish to have alts (for cosmetic reasons), like for example if you have maxed one weapon or vehicle type.. You can level that skill slightly faster. Or even a way to share some gear like a shared stash/bank (also for saving items you might want to keep until weapon skill is maxed for example).

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This idea is great!

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Originally Posted by pdills12

in an ideal world trion releases all the races as playable and completely redesigns them each race featuring two unique abilities and perks rather than the 4. Humans are all round char, irathians dps focus, indogene have the tech angle so support/cc, sensoth take the hits/grab aggro, Castithan idk i gues dps oriented with more of a focus on melee combat. of course i doubt they'd ever do anything like this given what ive seen them do.

p.s.: I love people who say they dont want classes, but with the current perks and abilities they are playing a role whether they know it or not.

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That is not an ideal world. And people dont like being shoehorned into classes. With the current set up they can bounce back and forth between roles. Stuck in one character is boring if they're a one trick pony.

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Originally Posted by Schwa

I don't want to be forced onto an alt. Ever.

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Funny I never was forced to be anything in any MMO. Then again I am not a hardcore wannabe. I like his thoughts because I want reasons for making an alt or all anyone would want to be is the one race they like and that is it. Longevity and options are the spice of mmos. Without enough of the latter you'll never have the former. I am going Cast and I have no reason what so ever to make another alt.

To me races do need bonuses and minuses. The different 'roles' need to have aa reason to choose other than cosmetic and getting to level 5K should be the same as getting to 2.5 k exp wise. I don't even have a reason to ever see 5K right now.

WTF?!

And that's how classes are getting overpowered. I wouldnt play Irathient Veteran due to your ideas. Human Outlaw/Machinist seems the best option.

Try better next time



The new blades will most likely make melee a lot more viable. I sense a whole new realm of cloak + close-in combat coming in the near future lol. Sonic strike and blur will also look very interesting when the new melee weapons arrive.

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Originally Posted by 3rdpig

This game is not designed to have lots of depth it's designed to have a very shallow learning curve where new players can dive right in and start shooting and having fun. It's also designed around balance (which almost always fails miserably IMO) and the changes you describe unfortunately don't fit in with either the shallow learning curve or Trion's ideas about balance.

And unfortunately I don't ever see roles like tank or healer being viable. We'd need a better defined aggro system for tanks to work and some sort of experience gain for healing. And again, that requires depth and a steeper learning curve and I don't think Trion is going there.

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And yet if I focused on my perks being all health and shield based then I am tech a tank while someone focusing on rezzing others/themselves and regening health is basically could be called a healer. There is perks that makes you more than that but being a potion maker so you can heal instead of healers actually doing the healing is NOT a bad idea... nor is BMGs in the hands of a healer being FAR more potent for healing purposes while the dps aspect would be more ideal for a dpser. You could do this without breaking balance rather easily.