so i cant reach the level cap without pvp?

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12-02-2013, 06:51 AM
BJWyler

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carnak

That's completely daft.

Utterly ridiculous.

No it's not. Again, that's Game Mechanics 101. Many, many games have such systems, or a hybrid thereof, including MMOs. Some games call them Achievements, other games make them into Titles your character can sport over their head. Regardless, these things encompass all elements of the game - including ones that certain players may not like. However, if you want to earn the achievement, you do what is necessary to earn it. I am not much of a PvP player myself, but understand if I want to earn the max EGO achievement, then I have to PvP (until such a time that the Episode pursuits accumulate enough bonus EGO to minimize or remove the need for PvP, as Deunan said). It would be just the same as WoW having the "PvP Master" achievement where you need to participate in 1000 PvP matches in order to earn it. I may hate PvP, but if I want that achievement, I do what the game requires in order to earn it. Game Mechanics 101. If WoW had a "Grandmaster" achievement that indicates a player completed all other achievements available in the game (which would include PvP Master), and I wanted that achievement, then I understand that I will have to earn the PvP Master achievement in order to gain the Grandmaster achievement.

Defiance simply makes its "Grandmaster" achievement a number. That number is 5000. Currently, the only way to earn that achievement/number is to complete every aspect of the game. Game mechanics 101. It has nothing to do why you think Defiance bombed. In fact you are the first person I have seen to really put up this kind of snit over the issue. This is an achievement. It is not a indication of character level, but an indication of how close you are to achieving the goal of completing all content in the game.

There is no numerical number that tells us what "Experience Level" our characters are in Defiance. It is not that type of game - surprisingly enough, not all games are created equal. Game Mechanics 101. Being EGO 5000 is not the same as being Level 90 in WoW. They are two completely different things. Our characters increase in power not by leveling like in an RPG, but by leveling the tools we use. If you cannot grasp that fact, then obviously Defiance is not your type of game. It may come as a great shock to some people, but not every game will (nor should) appeal to every player. That also is Game Mechanics 101. There are a great many players of Defiance who are grateful, and enjoy, the system as it is.
12-02-2013, 10:30 AM
Deunan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carnak

That's completely daft.

If you implement a numerical rating system in a game with a maximum, it doesn't matter that it's relatively flat (i.e. not like levels in most online games), players will naturally want to reach that maximum.

It's not daft. Players will not naturally want to top out a bragging rights rating even if you can't comprehend that notion. There are plenty of players of Defiance that could care less about capping EGO rating (particularly once they realize it gives no tangible benefits and is just an achievements rating system) just as there are plenty of players of video games in general that could care less about topping out achievements in Xbox and Steam purchased games. Furthermore achievement ratings encompass how much game content a player has covered so maxing achievment ratings is naturally going to cover every aspect of a game. Most players also realize this and don't attempt to fabricate absurd arguments about how it's unnatural for a game to require this to top out an achievements ranking system for a game.
12-02-2013, 12:38 PM
crasher

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deunan

It's not daft. Players will not naturally want to top out a bragging rights rating even if you can't comprehend that notion. There are plenty of players of Defiance that could care less about capping EGO rating (particularly once they realize it gives no tangible benefits and is just an achievements rating system) just as there are plenty of players of video games in general that could care less about topping out achievements in Xbox and Steam purchased games. Furthermore achievement ratings encompass how much game content a player has covered so maxing achievment ratings is naturally going to cover every aspect of a game. Most players also realize this and don't attempt to fabricate absurd arguments about how it's unnatural for a game to require this to top out an achievements ranking system for a game.

This.
A lot of us have no desire to do PvP, or SW or the racing challenges at all, and the only reason I'm over E-4500 on my main is because thats where it went, not because I was trying to get there. I'm avoiding a buncha pursuits on my auxiliary back-up 'toons just to stay lower E and not suffer the dreaded Trion Pox that they inflict on higher E 'toons.
12-02-2013, 04:21 PM
Nalai

I wouldn't care if PVP was required to reach EGO 5000, assuming you could PVP if you wanted to. Since that is no longer the case in PC NA land, they need to make it possible to reach EGO cap without it. I've waited in queue for "competitive" PVP for going on 40 hours now with only 3 matches played. There is no possible way for me to even complete the Echleon contracts with that amount of PVP activity.
12-02-2013, 04:58 PM
Umfafa

You can reach it, I did and I don't PVP.

It requires finishing all other pursuits and leveling all weapons/vehicles to max.
12-02-2013, 06:09 PM
BJWyler

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nalai

I wouldn't care if PVP was required to reach EGO 5000, assuming you could PVP if you wanted to. Since that is no longer the case in PC NA land, they need to make it possible to reach EGO cap without it. I've waited in queue for "competitive" PVP for going on 40 hours now with only 3 matches played. There is no possible way for me to even complete the Echleon contracts with that amount of PVP activity.

Really? I just finished up the Weekly today - played at least 8-9 DMs over the course of two hours on the East Coast. Matches will pop - Shadow Wars generally more than anything else for the most part, though matches will pop for whatever arena is up for the Daily (except Military Academy because it is bugged).
12-02-2013, 06:57 PM
Calysia

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanteYoda

I must be rare, as i'm more interested in my trip to end game than the actual end game itself...

Actually i just enjoy playing i don't really give a toss about end game or ego levels..

Same here...I'll get where I get when I get there.
12-02-2013, 07:14 PM
Deunan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Umfafa

You can reach it, I did and I don't PVP.

It requires finishing all other pursuits and leveling all weapons/vehicles to max.

That shouldn't be possible. The total amount of EGO rating from leveling weapons and vehicles, leveling EGO points and fulfilling PvE only pursuits including all the Episode pursuits from when all were available and all the DLC 1 pursuits is 4936. The remaining pursuits are Competitive Multiplayer pursuits, Echelon Reputation pursuits, and the EGO Evolution VI pursuit, all of which require a player to do PvP content.

Are you sure you haven't fulfilled any PvP pursuits? According to one of your other posts you did do PvP once upon a time for about 3 days.
12-02-2013, 10:19 PM
Umfafa

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deunan

That shouldn't be possible. The total amount of EGO rating from leveling weapons and vehicles, leveling EGO points and fulfilling PvE only pursuits including all the Episode pursuits from when all were available and all the DLC 1 pursuits is 4936. The remaining pursuits are Competitive Multiplayer pursuits, Echelon Reputation pursuits, and the EGO Evolution VI pursuit, all of which require a player to do PvP content.

Are you sure you haven't fulfilled any PvP pursuits? According to one of your other posts you did do PvP once upon a time for about 3 days.

Yeah, there was a bit of PVP in there...but I didn't start it until well after I had reached 5K.

All the races, gold...all the extra stuff top tier. Weapons and vehicles all maxed out. The factor I didn't think of immediately was any EGO received from the missions that aren't available now. Been here since it launched, pretty much. So I've had access to everything. Are you taking into account the 4 points you get every time you level something up?

(Edit: No, I did do shadow wars I think because that was the only thing I could get to pop).
12-02-2013, 11:24 PM
Deunan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Umfafa

The factor I didn't think of immediately was any EGO received from the missions that aren't available now. Been here since it launched, pretty much. So I've had access to everything. Are you taking into account the 4 points you get every time you level something up?

Yes. This article covers all the means of increasing EGO rating at launch. You have to add another 115 points for all the Episode pursuits (I miscounted this before as 105 points), the 55 points from DLC 1, and the 15 points from the Competitive Multiplayer Dueler Pursuit for a total of 5201 points available in the current game with DLC 1. 195 of them are Competitive Multiplayer Pursuits, 20 of them are Echelon Reputation, and 40 of them are from EGO Evolution VI which requires Trusted status with the Echelon faction. 5201 - 255 = 4946 (10 points more than I posted before because of the addition error I made for points from Episode pursuits) so you shouldn't be able to get a 5000 EGO rating unless you achieve pursuits that require doing PvP content.
12-02-2013, 11:48 PM
Umfafa

I did somehow.
12-03-2013, 12:19 AM
Maixx

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deunan

Yes. This article covers all the means of increasing EGO rating at launch. You have to add another 115 points for all the Episode pursuits (I miscounted this before as 105 points), the 55 points from DLC 1, and the 15 points from the Competitive Multiplayer Dueler Pursuit for a total of 5201 points available in the current game with DLC 1. 195 of them are Competitive Multiplayer Pursuits, 20 of them are Echelon Reputation, and 40 of them are from EGO Evolution VI which requires Trusted status with the Echelon faction. 5201 - 255 = 4946 (10 points more than I posted before because of the addition error I made for points from Episode pursuits) so you shouldn't be able to get a 5000 EGO rating unless you achieve pursuits that require doing PvP content.

How are your episode content counted? When released there were more pursuits offered then the current (data recorder) and the replay content. But having them removed from my list I can not tell you how much. This is why launch characters have been able to hit 5k w/o pvp, but newer can't.
12-03-2013, 12:27 AM
Umfafa

Yeah, there's something missing. I only started PVP after I hit 5K. I can't imagine I did more than one or two matches before that.
12-03-2013, 12:46 AM
Deunan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maixx

How are your episode content counted? When released there were more pursuits offered then the current (data recorder) and the replay content. But having them removed from my list I can not tell you how much. This is why launch characters have been able to hit 5k w/o pvp, but newer can't.

I'm using the Defiance Data website as a resource for the pursuits available from the Episode Pursuits and DLC 1 but it's not infallible. It's missing the Dueler Competitive Multiplayer Pursuit. Can you check your Episode Pursuits in game to see if Defiance Data is missing any of them? I'm assuming that if you completed all of them they should all still be visible as completed pursuits.
12-03-2013, 01:35 AM
Umfafa

I'll take a look. I've got a few PVP pursuits filled now though so it'll be kind of hard to figure out.

But, the only reason I wanted to do PVP was to get that blue sparkly shiny armor from that pursuit.

There's some slop in the numbers somewhere. Level everything up, and win all the races, all the clustershots or cluster****s or whatever they're called. You'll hit 5K before needing PVP.
12-03-2013, 07:15 AM
AmnesiaHaze

wow someone bumped my super old thread , ive reached 5K btw by doing all pvp pursuits , it was a pain but a great feeling never having to play the pvp again once i was done :D
12-04-2013, 11:08 PM
Carnak

Quote:

Originally Posted by BJWyler

No it's not. Again, that's Game Mechanics 101. Many, many games have such systems, or a hybrid thereof, including MMOs.

Name a single game that ties player level - no matter how flat Defiance's ego rating is, higher ego rating weapons are better - to achievements?

Name one, other than Defiance obviously.

Just one.

Achievements in most MMOs are completely optional extras. They generally reward players with titles and most players could take them or leave them. But playing Defiance knowing that it's impossible for me to get max ego rating without completing dreadful (at least for my tastes) content - well BLEEP that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmnesiaHaze

wow someone bumped my super old thread , ive reached 5K btw by doing all pvp pursuits , it was a pain but a great feeling never having to play the pvp again once i was done :D

I'm the culprit.

I could live with the PvP. I often enjoy it more than PvE. Less predictable. More of a challenge. Marvellous.

But after forcing myself to play those DLC1 arenas for a few days.... to the point where I wanted to do anything but play Defiance, there's just no way I can do any more of that ridiculous max-your-modifier content. I tried one the other day for an achievement but it's just too inane for me.

I like FPS because it's more realistic and engaging than the typical whack-a-mole cooldown driven combat of most RPGs. But Defiance is one step forward two steps back because of this kind of content.

I'm glad you managed to grind your way through the PvP to hit 5000 but unless they change this I'll never get there. Will check back in on the game in another six months but won't be holding my breath.
12-04-2013, 11:16 PM
Maixx

What's your Ego level?
Are all your weapons/ vehicles and PVE pursuits done yet?
Are you perks finished?

Unless your capped out it is pointless worry/complain now, when the DLC's and episode replay add pursuits it will be easy enough to hit without pvp pursuits.
12-05-2013, 12:37 AM
Deunan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carnak

Name a single game that ties player level - no matter how flat Defiance's ego rating is, higher ego rating weapons are better - to achievements?

Higher EGO rated weapons are not better. Weapons are better by their tier (Common, Uncommon, Rare, Epic and Legendary). It's easily possible to have an EGO rating 900 weapon that smokes an EGO rating 5000 one. By any objective standard higher EGO rated weapons are worse because they have little marketability while lower EGO rated ones are extremely marketable.

No one said EGO Rating is tied to leveling.

You still don't get it no matter how simply it's explained to you. EGO Rating is not a leveling system. It IS the in game achievements system. Claiming that it's a leveling system is about as valid as claiming that Xbox Gamerscore is a leveling system. :rolleyes:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carnak

Achievements in most MMOs are completely optional extras.

It's optional in Defiance. Getting an EGO rating of 5000 is an achievement rating cap not a level cap. The only level caps for Defiance are level 20 for weapon and vehicle skills and 260 EGO points.

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