What an MMO means to me.

When I think MMO, I think of:
-Character progression
-Loot
-Engaging storyline
-End game content that keeps me interested

My experience with this game has gone as such:
-Started a brand new character. Was immediately confused. Didn't really understand what was going on. Did I just play a tutorial level? What am I supposed to be doing...?
-Figured the basic mechanics out after a few hours. Did a few missions. LOVED what I was seeing.
-Hit EGO 200. Started finding better gear. Got a car. Got new "armor".
-Hit EGO 400. Realized there's not much more to the game.

The game is basically driving around, fighting enemies if you want, and participating in massive ArkFall events.

The Arkfalls are so watered down an easy, that you can just sit there AFK and earn the rewards. There's no challenge. There's no teamwork involved. Everyone is basically using the same weapons. The "Perks" aren't really perks, but more of placeholders. Do I want 15 extra seconds of Blur? Um, I guess. Do I want 3% better chance of loot dropping with Melee kills? Sure.

There's no skill system. There's no customization. There's nothing that differentiates me from someone who has 300 hours in the game. I can start a new character, pick up the first SMG I see, and basically do the same damage as someone who is EGO 5000. They will have some advantages, but they're not necessary.

The enemy AI is terrible. I can hide behind a rock while they all wait for me to poke out. I can lob grenades and rockets at them from 200ft away while they blindly race at me, only to be mowed down by the SMG I picked up 20 hours ago and have no attachments on.

Speaking of weapons, there is absolutely no diversity with the weapons and what they do.
There are shotguns, pistols, SMGs, Assault Rifles, LMGs, BMGs, Infectors, Detonators...

SMGs, Assault Rifles and LMGs all use the same ammo? Really? So if I have 3 loadouts, my LMG and Assault Rifle are useless if my SMG runs out of ammo? That sucks. Detonators, grenade launchers and Shotguns that shoot greandes...they all might as well be the same. There's NO diversity. They're the same weapon, only skinned slightly different.

Oh, and if you want to gamble your currency for loot, you can use the lockboxes. After purchasing roughly 50 level 3 lockboxes, 10 level 2s and 2 Level 4s, not a single weapon I got was an upgrade. If I got a purple weapon, which was about 1/5 chance, if lucky, it had the exact same stats as whatever I was using, only it had an extra mod slot, or an insignificant boost to reload or mag or crit damage. Nothing that made me want to use it...

Ugh. Is this the whole game?

That is their "Ingenious" system to allow all players to be able to play together no matter what....

Makes perfect sense doesn't it? (Sarcasm)

What you should think of when you think MMO:
Lots of players in something other than a hub or instance

"The game is basically driving around, fighting enemies if you want, and participating in massive ArkFall events."

It sounds to me that the problem here is that you don't want to do this. The game is a shooter first and foremost. You aren't going to get much variety in gameplay and the progression is going to be relatively flat to allow for PvP. If you like shooter gameplay then that's enough to keep you busy.

Your only really justified complaints are the dumb AI and arkfall rewards being too easy to come by.

Basically, you don't like the game. Move on to something more micromanagy. EVE is that way--->

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Originally Posted by Roscoe Wallace

The game is basically driving around, fighting enemies if you want, and participating in massive ArkFall events.

I can start a new character, pick up the first SMG I see, and basically do the same damage as someone who is EGO 5000. They will have some advantages, but they're not necessary.

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hehe, hi, i agree to some things but you're pretty uninformed for other things. i just comment on these two sentiments though.

first, there's more to defiance than you mention. there are different missions around the open world you can participate in. there are also instanced coop missions. and there's small scale pvp and large scale open world pvp.

second, yea, isn't it beautiful? even starting characters can compete against maxed out characters. this is crucial if you want your game to be skill based and not number based like your usual mmorpg.

also, there is no endgame, there are no level zones. you can go whatever and whenever you please. you have complete freedom. no one telling you what to do. except, the coop missions are ego restricted. i think this is another positive aspect of defiance. defiance is pretty much a casual mmo. just jump in, do stuff that's fun for you, leave and come back for more. there's no grind, the max ego is mostly prestige/aesthetic, there is no max anything you HAVE to reach. i like that. but it may turn people off as well, if they expect world of warcraft with guns.

at some point convincing others is easier than convincing yourself.
because we now know.

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Originally Posted by zzzornbringer

second, yea, isn't it beautiful? even starting characters can compete against maxed out characters. this is crucial if you want your game to be skill based and not number based like your usual mmorpg.

also, there is no endgame, there are no level zones. you can go whatever and whenever you please. you have complete freedom. no one telling you what to do. except, the coop missions are ego restricted. i think this is another positive aspect of defiance. defiance is pretty much a casual mmo. just jump in, do stuff that's fun for you, leave and come back for more. there's no grind, the max ego is mostly prestige/aesthetic, there is no max anything you HAVE to reach. i like that. but it may turn people off as well, if they expect world of warcraft with guns.

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This is what bothers me though. It's NOT skill based. Like I said, I can participate in an ArkFall event and either stand still and do nothing, or I can strafe around and kill 100 enemies. It makes no difference. I get the same reward, regardless. I've come in 1st on a lot of Arkfalls, and I don't get rewarded for doing more than the guy who came in last. In fact, the guy that came in last might be an EGO 5000 character who had to answer the door while the arkfall started. Either way, he gets the same reward I get (random), for doing nothing.

One thing I absolutely love in an MMO is that there is a progression to the game. When I'm level 1 in an MMO, I shouldn't be able to run to a level 20 zone and kill the bad guys just as fast as the level 20 guy. I should get mowed down in seconds. A level 20 guy should be able to travel to the level 1 zone and obliterate the bad guys.

In this game, there are no zones. There is no progression. There is no sense of "leveling up" or making your character stronger. Leveling up means nothing. The EGO points you spend are trivial. Most of them are minor buffs to an ability you won't even need.

I can go through each mission and hipfire my SMG, or use my Infector to kill the bad guys, never once needing to use the ability I chose: Blur. I sometimes use it to get out of a tight situation, but that's it. During my first 400 EGO levels, I've died less than 10 times. Nearly all were during Arkfall events where I was unaware of the abilities of the boss as I first started playing, and the other 1 or 2 times came when I completed a mission objective and 20 enemies spawned in all directions around me.

It's not about skill. It's not about level progression or character customization or the feeling of being part of a group. It's about grinding out points and skills that are meaningless. After a few hundred EGO points, you've seen all you need to see.

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Originally Posted by Era

What you should think of when you think MMO:
Lots of players in something other than a hub or instance

"The game is basically driving around, fighting enemies if you want, and participating in massive ArkFall events."

It sounds to me that the problem here is that you don't want to do this. The game is a shooter first and foremost. You aren't going to get much variety in gameplay and the progression is going to be relatively flat to allow for PvP. If you like shooter gameplay then that's enough to keep you busy.

Your only really justified complaints are the dumb AI and arkfall rewards being too easy to come by.

Basically, you don't like the game. Move on to something more micromanagy. EVE is that way--->

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I haven't tried the PvP yet, but from what I've seen and heard, it's more frustration than it's worth. If I want to play a player vs player shooter game, there are other alternatives. I bought this game because it was marketed as an MMO. It's NOT an MMO. It's a 3rd person shooter dressed up in a boring costume, pretending to be an MMO.

There's nothing MMO about this game, other than the fact that you'll run into people every now and then.

There are "events" happening all over the map at any given time. However, as soon as an ArkFall event starts, EVERYONE flocks to it. I've been in the middle of a mission where I had to clear out an area inhabited by about 30 enemies, and I was doing so with 2 other guys whom I presumed were on the same mission. About 5 minutes in, an Arkfall event happened about 1km away. Both guys packed up and left. Fortunately, I was able to kill the 30+ bad guys with minimal effort, as they blindly ran towards me, allowing me to land hundreds of critical shots in their faces.

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Originally Posted by Beta582

That is their "Ingenious" system to allow all players to be able to play together no matter what....

Makes perfect sense doesn't it? (Sarcasm)

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If I would have known this, I wouldn't have purchased the game.

Fortunately, the guy at GameStop said I could bring it back within 30 days for a full refund. Dunno why, but I've got his signature stating it on the receipt. I'll be returning it tomorrow.

I'm not a fan of grinding. I don't like mindless clicking and the feeling of "working" when I'm playing a video game. However, this game is so dumbed down that I feel like I could play it blindfolded. It's possibly the easiest shooter game I've ever played, and I've played many.

I rarely agree,I agree almost entirely.
'After a few hundred EGO points,you've seen all you need to see"

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Originally Posted by Roscoe Wallace

Like I said, I can participate in an ArkFall event and either stand still and do nothing, or I can strafe around and kill 100 enemies.

One thing I absolutely love in an MMO is that there is a progression to the game. When I'm level 1 in an MMO, I shouldn't be able to run to a level 20 zone and kill the bad guys just as fast as the level 20 guy. I should get mowed down in seconds. A level 20 guy should be able to travel to the level 1 zone and obliterate the bad guys.

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1) that's true but if you just stand around, you don't see your name in the score list at the end. :) not a lot of fun either to just stand around. luckily, most people do stuff within ark falls. but, again, if you're used to shooters, there isn't a huge challenge in ark falls. it's just large scale chaos, explosions etc...

2) then defiance is not the game for you. there are no numbers that improve your character. the only visible progression is based on outfits you can unlock with various activities. although, the difficulty increases slightly within the game world. mutants are very basic enemies, raiders do have explosive weapons and enemies with shields that you have to break with melee or explosives, 99ers have actual energy shields that you have to break, they also have snipers. so, there is a minor curve in difficulty but it's not like you mentioned other mmorpg's do it, where a level 1 character gets one hitted by level 20 enemies. i like this, you obviously don't. in this case i recommened you try the game firefall. although the world doesn't offer any progression whatsoever, you can make your gear more powerful though.