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they can communicate, for the most part, people just don't use it as much as they could because there's no need. It's not as elegant as it could be. They can certainly play co-operatively and competitively without direct communicationQuote:
Originally Posted by Skeety
If there is no need to communicate with other people then should Trion remove the limited chat box and voice chat? That seems contrary to me, effective communications is the hallmark of all human endeavor and what has made us what we are in all respects. No? Isn't it more true that people don't use the game methods for communication because they are ineffective instead of them not being needed?Quote:
Originally Posted by ironhands
If I am honest I usually just chat to my friends on xbox part chat. It's not really an issue for me, It also does not stop a game being an MMO and in my experience online gamers can get quite abusive if they don't get their own way every time so it's better to avoid them altogether.
People may still want to communicate, as you said, it's natural for us to want to, however, we don't *need* to communicate tactics during gameplay, any more than we need outfits, because the content is so bloody easy. I think a lot refrain from using it, not because it doesn't work outside of the local range, but because they have no need to. It's not like we're asking for buffs, directions to a certain area, or need help defeating a tough area boss. Whenever I've seen someone nearby, and used text to chat, I've generally received a response, but it's usually a "thanks", or "sweet, i placed well on that arkfall"Quote:
Originally Posted by Skeety
The chat was included because people will want to use it, and because we may get content eventually that would require a degree of coordination between players, instead of just shooting the flashing thing every time.
No, Trion should fix the chat and voice system.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skeety
Yes, they're ineffective and should be fixed.
I don't think anyone is disputing things need fixing and improving. Both would improve the online experience even more and would be gladly welcomed.
I'm a PC player that doesn't use voice and I sorely miss a good chat system. Can I still communicate though? Yes I can! Just not very effectively and sometimes not without blood and tears.
Still easily an MMO in either case, as long as it meets the stated criteria.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skeety
Keep in mind, there were plenty of MMOs, including MMORPGs, long before anybody had in-game voice-chat. There were (and actually still are) MMOs with more limited text chat systems than this game. I've read where some kid-friendly MMOs only allow communication using a limited list of preset words and phrases. None of that keeps games from being MMOs. They're just MMOs that may not have the features you'd personally prefer.
You'll find a lot of different opinions on your voice chat issue regardless, even among MMO vets. I've played close to 20 MMOs, mostly MMORPGs, over the last 14 years or so. One of the very first things I do on them now is make sure to totally disable voice chat by default, and I'm definitely not alone. Experience teaches a lot of players that the 1% valid use of voice online rarely outweighs the 99% of abuse it suffers. Most of the players I know in my current games only use voice with members of their own guild when they're coordinating a raid. And even then, they usually use Ventrilo rather than the in-game systems.
I've never had the issues with Defiance's text chat system that a lot of players seem to, but I've posted about that before. I'm on the PC, not in a clan. I use area chat, occasionally whisper and group chat. It works, not much more to say. I wouldn't oppose a global chat channel, but other games teach us that it too needs to be easily toggled off when necessary. I realize text chat in general is a lot tougher for many console folks, both logistically and by habit, and I can sympathize. Getting a real keyboard for both my consoles became a priority pretty quickly once I started gaming socially on them. But lots of folks aren't going to bother with that, and will either rely on voice support or uglier methods of text entry.
The social aspect is something the OP mentioned. It seems important to this game. That and the previous comments bring me back to the question of the definition for an "MMO" as provided by Wikipedia. Is a game a true MMO if it lacks effective communications? Does effective communications only serve to sometimes solve game specific issues or does its purpose go much deeper in ways that encourage more players to friend and play?
yes. communication doesn't require text, or even voice. as pointed out earlier, in many cases, too much communication actually causes harm - harassment, misdirection/trolling, and worse - which is why MMO games targeting children have no direct communication interface other than predefined macros (which defiance also has).Quote:
Originally Posted by Skeety
communication can certainly entice players to keep playing, but it really is a double edged sword in many cases; it comes down to the maturity of the players, balanced with the necessity of communication for gameplay. in this game, currently, chat and voice are candy, only there because it's expected, and only sometimes necessary.
It's not like EQ where you need to copy/paste a detailed strategy on how to handle a specific raid, or one raid event that requires players to actually recite lines of text, in the right order, for the event to succeed. That one was fun lol. Hell, you even had to use the text interface to being quests, and ask questions to NPCs back in the day, chat was integral back then.
Now, the chat interface is only used for player interaction and server messages, not to pass along mood, dialogue, backstory, etc, so it's far less important than it was, especially when many guilds/clans use 3rd party tools for communication like Ventrillo. EQ introduced voice chat a few years ago. Nobody used it, everyone was fine sticking with Ventrillo that wanted voice options.
I'd love to see other thoughts and opinions on how important chat (voice or text or both) are to the social dynamics of playing this game. Should effective communications be limited to guilds or already established groups of friends who are using 3rd party channels that others don't have automatic access to? Why might that be considered beneficial to all instead of only the affected group? Again I ask, what is the purpose of there being many people in a general environment if it is very difficult for them to communicate effectively? I think I've made my points and that they go to the root of how a MMO must work to be called a MMO, no matter the type of MMO it is. Thanks for the replies. What is said might determine the immediate future and tenacity of this game.
no, and they aren't. guilds just opt for those most often because they're used to the functionality from other games, and prefer the exclusivity. the current system is being upgraded as far as we know, and, it "works" as it is. as i said, it's just something people don't utilize. we hear constant complaints about people leaving their mics open in co-op, so we know it's working.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skeety
it isn't difficult for people in the environment to communicate, the chat works.
yes, an mmo requires communication, but an mmo doesn't require a versatile chat system, just some method of indicating what needs to be done, even if it's a macro that makes the player point left.
Again I ask, what is the purpose of there being many people in a general environment if it is very difficult for them to communicate effectively? I think I've made my points and that they go to the root of how a MMO must work to be called a MMO, no matter the type of MMO it is. Thanks for the replies. What is said might determine the immediate future and tenacity of this game.[/QUOTE]