Does this game have any Depth?

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Originally Posted by Skywarp

Story is definitely not depth. For me, it's having my character grow and develop, attain cool new abilities and extending the realm of gameplay.

At level cap I should have options and abilities available to me that give me a wider array of gameplay. Having passive increases isn't really adding depth or evolving gameplay, it just makes you slightly better at things you already do.

Examples of things that would add gameplay/character depth: I would expect a machinist to get the option to make their own sentry gun. Perhaps cloak offers a group/area cloak. Maybe Blur offers a charge ability later on. Overload could penetrate cover/enemies to hit other enemies behind. Blur could unlock a special line of melee weapons. (Why aren't there melee weapons anyways?) Decoy could have it's decoys do damage, or explode, or stun guys, or slow in an area. Veterans could call in an airstrike. Any of these things would change gameplay and evolve the way you play the game as you level up.

Basically, is the gameplay the same between ego 10 and ego 500? So far it's the same between 10 and 200ish. But so far all people say is that there's some mysterious thing that happens that suddenly gives the game depth or changes gameplay, though supposedly it's all super secret squirrel stuff. If it's true then Trion is doing a terrible job of advertising the features of their game. If it's not true, then the gameplay stays kinda flat all the way through.

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Cool i hope to get to some of these with what i can.

"Story is definitely not depth."
This is opinion based. Story is depth for me and like you im not the only one who would think this way. I bet others agree with you that story isn't depth but thats based solely on the person playing. So I find depth in story.

"having my character grow and develop, attain cool new abilities and extending the realm of gameplay."

"At level cap I should have options and abilities available to me that give me a wider array of gameplay."

"Having passive increases isn't really adding depth or evolving gameplay, it just makes you slightly better at things you already do."

Lets tackle these 3 things together. Its seems the first two items are met by the game. You do grow with your character as they unlock new gear to look cooler, new weapons which give small upgrades but as you use them they level up more and more through the proficiencies. The higher the Ego Level you obtain the wider array of features within the game become available for you. So both 1 and 2 are in the game as is for your depths concerns.

The 3rd here is almost like a contradictory so its hard for me to understand. Your saying increases to your character do not add depth but yet in the first 2 quotes you say by having increases for your character would add depth.

So which is it for you? You find depth to be about your characters development but increases that are passive or selected through the ego grid dont count? I liked the examples you provided but i dont see that as depth. Just a feature in the game that could be added and give your character something cool and special about them.

I see this more like a Borderlands type request than a MMO where everyone starts out the same. We are all Ark hunters on this rock. Not Vault hunters who have unique powers. There are perks within the Ego Grid that do favor your Ego Skill and add to it. Increasing length and cooldowns. Decoy has an effect that decloaks cloaked units. Overcharge gets faster reloads. Blurr increase melee effects.

So depending on which Ego Skill you pick there are a ton of customization combinations you can do to make your character unique to you (^-^)b

"Basically, is the gameplay the same between ego 10 and ego 500? So far it's the same between 10 and 200ish."

Yes and no. I know this is not a helpful response so i'll try to explain why.

Yes its the same because Trion wanted to keep the player pool playing together regardless if your new or a well level'd vet. Someone who is new with an Ego score of 20 can be in a group with someone who has an ego score of 3,000 and still be of help. This is so co-op dungeons and pve content can be shared and experienced together without worrying about having to level up in a rookie zone, then move on to the hard more difficult areas.

With that said, a rank 20 isn't going to have the ego slots, inventory, leveld up weapons, or weapon proficiency to be able to out do the guy who is 3,000+ Thats to be expected and to be honest is how it should be. You put in the time you get the goods.

Here is the No part:

The starting zones have the basic bad guys you'll see all through the game. But later on in the game you will be introduced to more creative enemies. Some with ego skills for themselves. some with set attacks and rotations that you need to pay attention to them so you know when to shoot and when not to.

I can't explain any further than this. But there are things in the final game that we dont get to see in either Alpha or Beta. So be excited for the unknown and like me get excited for how soon we'll be able to find these new things together.

I hope this helps a bit. Please feel free to respond. I enjoy open discussions with people who are reasonable and humble. (^-^)b

P.S.

sorry for the long post.

i think in order to truely balance a game, it must be unbalanced at some point....

Haha, let me explain.

Ill use the rpg game i use to play as an example (but i wont reveal the name) Theres no way in H*ll a lower level has any buisness running content that a higher level runs. Its unfair, yes, but armor and weapons allows that to be for the simple fact, the higher the instance, the harder the mobs/bosses hit, which forces you to gear up for that specific task. Is that unbalanced, well yea, but again, this is were progression come to the fore front.

Im all for balance, but i also want to sweat, die, and work for my epic loot, and not have someone with an ego of 20 being just as effective as me (if i were ego 700).

Im not trying to be unfair, i just feel like to much balance, and you have a game full of toon only real accomplishment is how many trophies he has compared to someone else.

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Originally Posted by Daholic

i think in order to truely balance a game, it must be unbalanced at some point....

Haha, let me explain.

Ill use the rpg game i use to play as an example (but i wont reveal the name) Theres no way in H*ll a lower level has any buisness running content that a higher level runs. Its unfair, yes, but armor and weapons allows that to be for the simple fact, the higher the instance, the harder the mobs/bosses hit, which forces you to gear up for that specific task. Is that unbalanced, well yea, but again, this is were progression come to the fore front.

Im all for balance, but i also want to sweat, die, and work for my epic loot, and not have someone with an ego of 20 being just as effective as me (if i were ego 700).

Im not trying to be unfair, i just feel like to much balance, and you have a game full of toon only real accomplishment is how many trophies he has compared to someone else.

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It seems to me that you are looking for more typical rpg elements from this game than the dev's intended. In the grand scheme of Defiance it is a shooter first. With gearing or powers being the sole form of progression you cause an imbalance in player interaction that while not necessarily bad wasn't meant for this game. The way it seems to be currently set up is that a little bit of boost in weapons and a little boost from perks add to the sense of power without making a veteran/hardcore player the "god not to be trifled with". I remember being the newbie in a guild of early adopters and a lack of interaction with the max level players. I also remember being the max level who had to re-roll toons to assist the new players in leveling. Here we will not have either problem since a bullet is a bullet. Sure I might have a few more tricks in my arsenal than my low level buddy but his bullet will still kill the mobs just as dead.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Daholic

i think in order to truely balance a game, it must be unbalanced at some point....

Haha, let me explain.

Ill use the rpg game i use to play as an example (but i wont reveal the name) Theres no way in H*ll a lower level has any buisness running content that a higher level runs. Its unfair, yes, but armor and weapons allows that to be for the simple fact, the higher the instance, the harder the mobs/bosses hit, which forces you to gear up for that specific task. Is that unbalanced, well yea, but again, this is were progression come to the fore front.

Im all for balance, but i also want to sweat, die, and work for my epic loot, and not have someone with an ego of 20 being just as effective as me (if i were ego 700).

Im not trying to be unfair, i just feel like to much balance, and you have a game full of toon only real accomplishment is how many trophies he has compared to someone else.

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I get your point but this is not a RPG. There needs to be a balance so the player pool wont become isolated.

Just because a Ego score of 20 is in the same dungeon as you when your 700 doesn't mean they are equal to you. They will be able to fight, revive, and not get one shotted sure. But they wont have the perks, the inventory, or the gun availability as you have @ 700.

This is a great feature Trion has done. People hate being isolated. Look at FFXI. Where people who are level 95 can scale down to play with people who are level 10 and be all on the same playing level. This was a great feature.

So yes, a 20 can run with you but it wont make them as bad *** as you will be with all your weapon upgrades and proficiencies.

Makes sense?

Hmm, i see!

It's because this game is geared towards casuals who will probably never beat the game. This game is so incredibly easy, haven't played such an easy game in a long time.

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Originally Posted by mitsuko

It's because this game is geared towards casuals who will probably never beat the game. This game is so incredibly easy, haven't played such an easy game in a long time.

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Nothing wrong with easy. Lets take a look at some of the most played games right now.

Minecraft - Incredibly easy and crap for graphics yet is super fun to play.
LoL and DOTA - Two of the most streamed games on twitch. Super easy to play unless your going for playing pro. But for a casual, its fun and entertaining.
Mario Kart - arguable the most played racing game in history. Fun to play not super difficult.

Lastly, how can you beat a MMO with no fixed ending? You can complete the story missions but that is not the end of the game.

I doubt ANY of us will quote "Beat" the game. You would have to unlock every possibl ego point and have an ego score up around 5,000.

Plus with DLC and TV content being added in over the course of the life of this game. We shouldn't ever feel like there is nothing going on. All of us will have something to do so lets make it so we can do it with as many people as possible. This includes the casual gamer.

I'm just amazed at how when anyone says anything negative about this game, they are called a troll. There is no real conversation or real discussions here. Just downing people who don't agree with something in the game. It's like watching an AMD vs Intel fight on forums. People are just so stuck up a products ***, that they refuse to see the obvious. I myself, don't mind the game, but this forum isn't just for people who like the game, people are suppose to be able to express what they think as well. Technically, the people going around telling people to leave, or calling them names are the child *** trolls.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Archangel

Cool i hope to get to some of these with what i can.

"Story is definitely not depth."
This is opinion based. Story is depth for me and like you im not the only one who would think this way. I bet others agree with you that story isn't depth but thats based solely on the person playing. So I find depth in story.

"having my character grow and develop, attain cool new abilities and extending the realm of gameplay."

"At level cap I should have options and abilities available to me that give me a wider array of gameplay."

"Having passive increases isn't really adding depth or evolving gameplay, it just makes you slightly better at things you already do."

Lets tackle these 3 things together. Its seems the first two items are met by the game. You do grow with your character as they unlock new gear to look cooler, new weapons which give small upgrades but as you use them they level up more and more through the proficiencies. The higher the Ego Level you obtain the wider array of features within the game become available for you. So both 1 and 2 are in the game as is for your depths concerns.

The 3rd here is almost like a contradictory so its hard for me to understand. Your saying increases to your character do not add depth but yet in the first 2 quotes you say by having increases for your character would add depth.

So which is it for you? You find depth to be about your characters development but increases that are passive or selected through the ego grid dont count? I liked the examples you provided but i dont see that as depth. Just a feature in the game that could be added and give your character something cool and special about them.

I see this more like a Borderlands type request than a MMO where everyone starts out the same. We are all Ark hunters on this rock. Not Vault hunters who have unique powers. There are perks within the Ego Grid that do favor your Ego Skill and add to it. Increasing length and cooldowns. Decoy has an effect that decloaks cloaked units. Overcharge gets faster reloads. Blurr increase melee effects.

So depending on which Ego Skill you pick there are a ton of customization combinations you can do to make your character unique to you (^-^)b

"Basically, is the gameplay the same between ego 10 and ego 500? So far it's the same between 10 and 200ish."

Yes and no. I know this is not a helpful response so i'll try to explain why.

Yes its the same because Trion wanted to keep the player pool playing together regardless if your new or a well level'd vet. Someone who is new with an Ego score of 20 can be in a group with someone who has an ego score of 3,000 and still be of help. This is so co-op dungeons and pve content can be shared and experienced together without worrying about having to level up in a rookie zone, then move on to the hard more difficult areas.

With that said, a rank 20 isn't going to have the ego slots, inventory, leveld up weapons, or weapon proficiency to be able to out do the guy who is 3,000+ Thats to be expected and to be honest is how it should be. You put in the time you get the goods.

Here is the No part:

The starting zones have the basic bad guys you'll see all through the game. But later on in the game you will be introduced to more creative enemies. Some with ego skills for themselves. some with set attacks and rotations that you need to pay attention to them so you know when to shoot and when not to.

I can't explain any further than this. But there are things in the final game that we dont get to see in either Alpha or Beta. So be excited for the unknown and like me get excited for how soon we'll be able to find these new things together.

I hope this helps a bit. Please feel free to respond. I enjoy open discussions with people who are reasonable and humble. (^-^)b

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I think what he means by character development is.. Basically look at Borderlands 1/2: they have more gameplay variety as you grow than Defiance. And they have more than one class too. I guess people (including me) want more stuff that would add variety to the shoot-shoot-some-more gameplay.

.. And I KNOW this is a shooter.