Infectors still havent been nerf'd

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Originally Posted by Fuzzle

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Note.
The amount of the screen being blocked depends on your zoom.
You posted images with a nade launcher which has close to 0 zoom.
The same infection covers twice as much when you zoom in with an LMG.

http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/...6.resizedimage
my favorite example. Posted by iTango.

E/: Post above mine

P.S.
"Just keep rolling" made me lol.
Ye, you ain't supposed to shoot back or kill your enemy.
Infectors block your vision, make your screen flash and make it hop up and down.
You litereally can't kills any infector player that is shooting directly at 1on1.
At least if that guy is smart enough to bunny hop to his right hand side which is your left screen half and completely blocked off by infection when scoped.

Not to mention that the forced mouse sensity zoom down on PC makes it even more sickening.
(P.S. my mouse DOES have buttons for sensity adjustment but additionally adjusting my sensity whenever I scope in/out is no valid option. It costs time and gets you killed.)

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Originally Posted by Hiero Glyph

"Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man."

Seriously, if you really think this is the truth you have no place in a discussion concerning balance.

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Explain this to me because I'm failing to see how this is going to work out to be a benefit for everyone overall. Say the infectors do get 'nerfed', which they probably will anyway regardless of what's said by those against it who take the time to post. Right? They get 'nerfed' what happens next? What are all the people who were using them going to do? They're going to move onto a weapon set that hasn't been ruined by 'nerfing' (yet) and then you morons are going to be back with some dumb reason to attempt to justify reducing their effectiveness yet again declaring said weapon, whatever it's going to be, to be The 'OP' weapon. Just like what happened with shotguns, just like what's happening to infectors and just like what's going to continue if Trion keeps giving into this nonsense.

Do you want me to explain why I see 'nerfing' as a ticking time bomb that causes more problems than it actually solves? Right. We start off with one weapon set that's supposedly the only 'OP' weapons. That eventually gets 'nerfed'. Those who use that go out to find another more equally effective weapon which hasn't been touched. They use that, that gets 'nerfed' over time, they then find another until eventually that weapon set has been reduced to nothing. Repeat this as many times as you want.

Why am I against 'nerfs'? Because the overall effectiveness of weapons are being lowered and the ones that haven't been touched at all yet are eventually going to be the 'OP' weapon. What does this mean? It means, to anyone with common sense, that all weapons are going to essentially be worthless and they won't be worth the hassle in using as overtime they'll all be equal. Equality doesn't work with weapons, why? Because they have to be unbalanced in order for them to outbest each other in certain scenarios. 'Nerfing' overtime takes this away from all weapons and that leads to an extremely boring experience.

Oh and not to mention this game isn't even centered around PvP and its main focus is actually on PvE. Have you not realised that PvP is more or less a novelty on this game? Your score and all of that does not mean anything on this game. There is no global leaderboard, your results aren't stored anywhere, no one cares if you place first, last or in between in PvP. Why you ones even care about this I just can't wrap my head around due to the fact of what I mentioned above - it does not mean a thing.

If Trion won't cut away from the anchor which is PvP in this game, then the only way they'll be able to make PvP somewhat 'balanced' (If that's even possible) is by removing EGO powers altogether from that aspect. You have no way of determining whether or not it's the perks, the mods or in fact that weapon itself that player using the weapon that killed you is even 'OP' to begin with off the bat. Other than that? PvP side only changes, or no changes at all. If this doesn't happen it's going to do a lot more damage than good over time due to these changes effecting the PvE side which has hardly any problems with 'balance'. Hell, why people even moan about balance in PvE is beyond me. But that's my views, take it or leave it.

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Originally Posted by Sdric

You litereally can't kills any infector player that is shooting directly at 1on1.

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hahahaha that's good. the fact that you play on PC and still can't 1v1 infectors is awesome. thanks for the morning laugh ;)

I don't know why more of you don't insist on separate weapon stats for PVP and PVE. They can tailor weapons for PVP and PVE freely without having any effect on the other. =|

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Originally Posted by Dave Blackwell

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Simply put, the Infector is not comparable to the other weapons in the game in its current state. This leaves two options: reduce the Infectors abilities, or increase all of the rest. Given how many other weapons feel appropriate and the sheer number of them that would need to be changed, the solution is obvious.

Now how this 'nerf' is handled determines everything about its effectiveness. Given that mobs do not roll often, if you allow players to shed infections by rolling you have now added a mechanic that has limited effect on PvE but dramatically impacts PvP. Another required change is fixing the mod that allows the Immunizer to become full-auto as this is entirely broken. Once those changes are made, a few other small adjustments may be required but overall the situation should be improved with no 'nerf' being felt on the PvE side.

As for removing EGO powers, they are actually fine save Cloak. If Cloak added a shimmer effect when players are walking/running then it would make it entirely balanced. Again, this would have limited (zero?) impact on PvE. As a result, nerfing can be done without affecting PvE but it needs to be done properly; therefore such actions would entirely invalidate your previous statements.

EDIT: Also, reducing the stats of the Infector's bugs would also have limited effect on PvE as mobs do not even try to shoot them or run away from them. This would include reducing the bugs' health and adding a small delay between when they spawn and when they attack; damage would be unchanged. Certainly you must realize by now that there are plenty of potential ways to balance Infectors that would not affect PvE.

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Originally Posted by greatdividers

hahahaha that's good. the fact that you play on PC and still can't 1v1 infectors is awesome. thanks for the morning laugh ;)

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There is so much trash coming out of your mouth.
You flame other players, make fun of them, accuse them for being bad.
However you completely fail/refuse to actually deliver any prove for your arguments.
Other players enlist problems with a weapon.
You ignore anything that doesn't support your point of view.
u]Your posts are worth absolutely nothing.[/u]
You're one of those guys who intentionally tries to destroy a discussion in order to avoid change to status quo.
I usually don't tend to insinuate vague thesis against other player but I get the feeling that you're damn scared of the infector nerf since you'll get stomped when the situation actually requires skill.

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Originally Posted by greatdividers

hahahaha that's good. the fact that you play on PC and still can't 1v1 infectors is awesome. thanks for the morning laugh ;)

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I know right? people who suck are complaining.... it makes me laugh endlessly!

Try it on the Xbox genius', then tell me how a Infector is great in 1 on 1 at close range..... its actually really really bad!

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Originally Posted by Sdric

There is so much trash coming out of your mouth.
You flame other players, make fun of them, accuse them for being bad.
However you completely fail/refuse to actually deliver any prove for your arguments.
Other players enlist problems with a weapon.
You ignore anything that doesn't support your point of view.
u]Your posts are worth absolutely nothing.[/u]
You're one of those guys who intentionally tries to destroy a discussion in order to avoid change to status quo.
I usually don't tend to insinuate vague thesis against other player but I get the feeling that you're damn scared of the infector nerf since you'll get stomped when the situation actually requires skill.

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i guess i could have worded it more politely.... doesn't change what i meant though. let me try again:

if you are actually using a pvp loadout (rhino, defensive perks, syphon guns, etc) you should never lose 1v1 to an infector.

ps: go ahead and ask any pc na player if i use infectors. i used an immunizer for one match this morning while i was reseting by VBI sniper rifle. 99% of matches i use the loadout in my signature.

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Originally Posted by Hiero Glyph

Now how this 'nerf' is handled determines everything about its effectiveness. Given that mobs do not roll often, if you allow players to shed infections by rolling you have now added a mechanic that has limited effect on PvE but dramatically impacts PvP. Another required change is fixing the mod that allows the Immunizer to become full-auto as this is entirely broken. Once those changes are made, a few other small adjustments may be required but overall the situation should be improved with no 'nerf' being felt on the PvE side.

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I agree with you on allowing players to be able to shed the infection by rolling, similar to how it works for when being on fire. It's true that this would have almost no effect in regards to the PvE aspect, however, it will if the stats and such are tweaked extensively; whether or not this will happen is yet to be seen. Honestly? Ignoring all the other possible issues with weapons and focusing solely on the infectors what you've said right there is more than enough to even out the odds.

With that being said though, I still stand by how I view 'nerfs' in general and how they cause more problems than permanent solutions. Yes, they may temporarily solve an issue at the time but over time it usually comes round and bites the players in the *** one way or another.

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Originally Posted by Hiero Glyph

Simply put, the Infector is not comparable to the other weapons in the game in its current state. This leaves two options: reduce the Infectors abilities, or increase all of the rest. Given how many other weapons feel appropriate and the sheer number of them that would need to be changed, the solution is obvious.

As for removing EGO powers, they are actually fine save Cloak. If Cloak added a shimmer effect when players are walking/running then it would make it entirely balanced. Again, this would have limited (zero?) impact on PvE. As a result, nerfing can be done without affecting PvE but it needs to be done properly; therefore such actions would entirely invalidate your previous statements.

EDIT: Also, reducing the stats of the Infector's bugs would also have limited effect on PvE as mobs do not even try to shoot them or run away from them. Certainly you must realize by now that there are plenty of potential ways to balance Infectors that would not affect PvE.

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This is one thing that I struggle in my own mind when it comes to infectors and how they can be compared to the others. It comes across almost as a 'unisex', so to speak, weapon as it can quite literally be used in almost any and all situation - depending on if the person using them wants to take a stab with them. I'm not too sure which one of those options would be the most beneficial overall. Yes reducing infectors would be the least hassle, but by increasing the rest of them it could also prove to be the solution as well, entirely dependant on how it's carried out though but it could also be considered to be one.

The problem is an infector can't be compared by anything that already does exist, so there's no way of determining what exactly their strengths and weaknesses should be. It could be viewed as a support type weapon, for the fact that the bugs do a majority of the work and you can switch to your primary. It could even been viewed as an offensive for those that truly enjoy using them, quite a lot. Looking at how everyone's reacting to this situation I would say that's part of the issue, we don't really know how to.. 'view' them as a weapon as they can't be compared to anything else.

Removing EGO powers, not just the major ones but the smaller ones too; which is what I meant the whole time. I don't necessarily agree with this, even though I am the one saying it as I believe EGO adds spice to the overall gameplay that Defiance offers. However there's too many factors that can determine whether or not a weapon is well and truly 'OP'. We have no way of knowing, straight away, what perks, mods and such that the person who killed us was using. This just adds to the problem of how to really deem if a weapon is actually 'OP' or not. By removing the EGO powers etc. this more or less would make PvP.. at least somewhat balanced. I still believe that it's impossible to have equality when it comes to weapons. But what what I mean is it's only the mods and the statistics of the weapons themselves that play into their overall effectiveness within PvP. When EGO powers are in the mix then it's too complicated.

I'd like to make it clear that I'm not just here trying to stop some unnecessary 'nerfs' to infectors but I'm also trying to show that this will not make everything fine and dandy. See once infectors are done and dusted? There's gonna be another thread down the line, yet again, demanding that some supposed 'OP' weapon needs to be neutered as it's 'ruining the game'. But right now no one is complaining about any other weapons, just infectors; because of the popularity of them. Shotguns got 'nerfed' those that used them swarmed to infectors, their popularity bloated and here we are. This is what will continue even after this infector 'problem' is sorted.

i dont know if someone mention that but anyway this is my solution :
Infectors should not have deal any other dmg then from spawned bugs. That small dmg from first hit should be removed with infection dmg. Or atleast have bug dmg and shot + infection dmg in different kind of infectors. Or they just should be banned for PvP :)