Griefing Arkfalls (Revolting Hellbugs and AoE Attacks)

the grenade would be a clusternova, and 3-4 of those in a row can clear out several archers and warriors. Just one would not. I fail to see a penalty as well, seeing how you still will clear the arkfall. Yes, I know that it is ranked on damage. That's why I come out on top. By you thinking that not killing skitterlings yields higher damage, you are wrong. Sure you get to crit the crystal for about 5 seconds, after that it goes back to being armored. Just like the warriors who you have to hit in the mouth to do full damage. However, you know what isn't armored and takes full damage AND you can kill more than one at a time. Skitterlings. So my calculations say kill skitterlings, do more overall damage, get higher on the board.

And until you can come up with more logical reasons than "they bite 'em der holes in dat crystal," then we really have nothing left to discuss because you won't change me, I won't change you.

I've never seen an arkfall not be completed. I've never seen a crystal go through an entire round without a weakspot being bitten into it, regardless of how many people are killing skitterlings. I've brought logic into your argument of whine. I'm sorry you cannot process that.

BTW,
Just sayin'

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Originally Posted by Sanguinesun

Not sure how speaking intentionally ambiguously of how there have been comments by some who most readers would recognize as being "griefers" to be specifically a targeted response to you. It wasn't. It was collectively to the whole of people posting in effect "Im going to do as I please and screw the rest of you" sort of sentiment conveyed and how that helps to support a more important premise as a whole: a bad game mechanic.

The point of stating that was not to essentially call out the griefers but to use it as proof that players have been groomed by the mechanic in a counter intuitive way to the game features cooperative design. That is the core point that is desiring change: change the mechanic of a cooperative game design so that it actually is wholly cooperative and not us versus them.

The feeling by me due to the sheer length of time and lack of transparency of response with change to the mechanic even from alpha days reflects that the devs dont see it as a problem. The thread showing folks who are conflicting with each other and showing that a segment of the players intend to keep going counter to the mechanic on purpose for their varied reasons that they feel justified with is a good thing because it helps show the devs more proof on the flaw of their design.

Thus Jxsin if you feel you fell into that category for what ever reason it matters not to me. It wasn't a specific targeting to you. Im targeting the devs.

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Touche', calling me out on the same thing I called you out on. Good call, man. Sometimes the alcohol makes me get defensive. The irony is I wasn't originally targeting anyone, yet you could say that you felt targeted. And you weren't targeting anyone, yet I could say I felt targeted. So neither were targeting either, so I apologize for assuming you were attacking me with your statement.

I didn't come on this thread to argue, just to present new light into the matter that you guys may not have realized. That is all.

I'm also not saying that there are not griefers out there doing this for that particular reason, but I, for one, have different reasons for doing it.

Next time I am at the Hombu in Noda, sake is on me

The problem isn't the players, it's the mechanic. SOOO many weapons are AOE, or at least capable if killing those skitterlings.

BMGS, (all but FRC), Infectors (all but canker) Rocket Launchers, detonators, some pistols, combat shotguns, sawed offs, grenades, I could go on and on. All of these weapons are a problem... there's dozens, and those arkfalls happen almost non-stop in Mount Tam. Mount Tam has the highest frequency of people without extra loadouts just for arkfalls.

It was a mediocre idea, implemented HORRIBLY. Don't hate the player, hate the game.

Side note* I'm aware that FRC BMGs can skill skitterlings with +link, so don't bother.

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Originally Posted by JxSiN

the grenade would be a clusternova, and 3-4 of those in a row can clear out several archers and warriors. Just one would not. I fail to see a penalty as well, seeing how you still will clear the arkfall. Yes, I know that it is ranked on damage. That's why I come out on top. By you thinking that not killing skitterlings yields higher damage, you are wrong. Sure you get to crit the crystal for about 5 seconds, after that it goes back to being armored. Just like the warriors who you have to hit in the mouth to do full damage. However, you know what isn't armored and takes full damage AND you can kill more than one at a time. Skitterlings. So my calculations say kill skitterlings, do more overall damage, get higher on the board.

And until you can come up with more logical reasons than "they bite 'em der holes in dat crystal," then we really have nothing left to discuss because you won't change me, I won't change you.

I've never seen an arkfall not be completed. I've never seen a crystal go through an entire round without a weakspot being bitten into it, regardless of how many people are killing skitterlings. I've brought logic into your argument of whine. I'm sorry you cannot process that.

BTW,
Just sayin'

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Its funny you say you come out on top hehe cause I do as well in most cases 1 or 2.. ( inow people will think Im tripping Ill make sure to start taking screenshots. Im not about to fraps to much effort ). I have been using an LMG sense day 1. I dont need a grenade or lobber or rocket launcher to deal mass amounts of damage. I concentrate on the objective. Weak points overcharge done.

I have on a few occasions seen them not get finished. It does happen. Just today If I hadn't moved on to the next crystal when I did we would have failed. I cleared half of that with damage the group came over I had a stack of skitterlings opening holes all over the place and people were able to get holes opened before the skitterlings were completely gone from those trying to get their pursuit done. I stayed a little while longer and left and went to the next one with another group of 3. Which we killed that one before the previous group was done and so we went back to mop up. By the time we were done there was about 50 seconds left.

So that just goes to show you that it happens.

BTW, I don't use a detonator or a rocket launcher. Pure AR (w/incendiary) and a clusternova. If by chance I do run out of ammo (rarely), I switch to an auto-fragger. I do have a loadout specifically for ark-falls.

I have noticed more people using Dets and RL's (mostly dets) lately, and I blame sieges. They think that because dets were so awesome in sieges, then they must be at arkfalls as well. So, after taking time to think and re-read the OP, I may have to agree with you that some of these people may not have a clue or may be griefers. I'm kinda glad I went back and looked at it from a different perspective.

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Originally Posted by JxSiN

I'm kinda glad I went back and looked at it from a different perspective.

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It's finally happened... someone changed their opinion based on the internets! I've never seen this before.

I have killed them for ammo before, but only AFTER they bite the hole.

If there's a way to use a mechanic to make people miserable, intentional or not, it will happen.
I'd think Trion would have remembered the multiple rifts that were griefed just because they could be, and set it up to where that was impossible. Guess I gave them too much credit.

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Originally Posted by StarBat

It's finally happened... someone changed their opinion based on the internets! I've never seen this before.

I have killed them for ammo before, but only AFTER they bite the hole.

If there's a way to use a mechanic to make people miserable, intentional or not, it will happen.
I'd think Trion would have remembered the multiple rifts that were griefed just because they could be, and set it up to where that was impossible. Guess I gave them too much credit.

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I'm reasonable and willing to look into others points of view. One thing I said on my original comment, and you reiterated it... timing! wait until there's a hole, then go all out.

My policy:
If there are people there, tag and run
If I can find one that's empty, I solo it

Every single arkfall type has a way for people to drag it out, not just the crystal destruction ones.

Honestly though, I can't remember the last time I even fired a shot at those crystals. Figured out you got 5 keys from healing for 10 seconds, and they don't give kill XP or salvage, so why stick around? There's no harm in posting this, even if the .001% of players that read this stop participating in these things, they'll still get done.

Even if they don't? Who cares. I only invested 10 seconds in the thing.

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Originally Posted by JxSiN

BTW, I don't use a detonator or a rocket launcher. Pure AR (w/incendiary) and a clusternova. If by chance I do run out of ammo (rarely), I switch to an auto-fragger. I do have a loadout specifically for ark-falls.

I have noticed more people using Dets and RL's (mostly dets) lately, and I blame sieges. They think that because dets were so awesome in sieges, then they must be at arkfalls as well. So, after taking time to think and re-read the OP, I may have to agree with you that some of these people may not have a clue or may be griefers. I'm kinda glad I went back and looked at it from a different perspective.

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:P

Yeah it happens. Just like when people roll in in the duni's and their Chargers and place them in front of crystals points and mess up the views then when it disappears they do it again meanwhile they just blow everything up. Same with seeing a sniper hitting the crit points on the arms of the hellbug boss so they sit there and shoot the blue explosions at the base of their character so they cant see or stand in front of them. It happens all the time.

I dont mind people killing the skitterlings ( I do to sometimes for ammo ) but I try and let them open the crystal a bit so that Im not ruining it for everyone else. Common respect for each type of play should be had.