Defiance vs. CoD:BO2; TRION did an ok job...

Okay, guys I'll warn you all this isn't another negative thread, but a realization thread of something I nearly stepped into so to speak. And this is about Defiance game, even though I start out with the Call of Duty part.


Background and issues of Call of Duty Black Ops 2
I was surfing around the net at various sites like Amazon and ran across Call of Duty Black Ops 2 and was looking at it as a game to use to take a break/indefinite hiatus form this game. I started reading the reviews and ran across this review: http://www.amazon.com/review/R14WN72...R14WN72HX6A137.

In it the person mentions how they played through BO2's campaign mode in 6 hours, which is like really amazing for a game like that to lack that much content; how there is rampant hacking/cheating on the multiplayers for it, and all the unbalanced weapons and issues with matchmaking system.

The Defiance game part
This made me think about the game we play (Defiance), and how at least our main story line takes a little more than 6 hours to play through, maybe about 12 at max, but for me the last time through was about 24 hours, wasn't really measuring it. And how we do have enough random content to allow people to PVE without having force them to use the matchmaker system to get into PVP events. Nice, good job on that TRION.

Then in looking at how the hacking is so rampant and they not banning cheaters, it reminded me of some of the pitfalls of this game. Then added to the match making issues we have with very few people at times in the queue and how the system feels so limiting in that regard to finding other players, well, it was more like echoing our concerns with this game.

And with the unbalancing in the weapons... Oh well, TRION please take not of this aspect too in our game and rebalance the weapons out eventually.

Conclusion
But all in all, Defiance is as good even with all the bugs we deal with, as CoD BO2, with a little less on the cheating side happening. Not sure if this what I really got from this or not, but it seemed to make sense at the time. TRION while making Defiance probably messed up on a few things, but in comparing it with other shooters, it seems it is at least on par with what is currently out there if not better in some regards. I know, the next generation of games will likely have some differences that cause them to be better than Defiance, but for the short period of time that is left before the next consoles are released and next generation of graphics cards are released well, TRION did an "ok" job. Not a stellar job, but an "ok" one.

Okays, that was all I wanted to mention and it was mostly my two cents...

But what do you all think?

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Originally Posted by Nyako

Okay, guys I'll warn you all this isn't another negative thread, but a realization thread of something I nearly stepped into so to speak. And this is about Defiance game, even though I start out with the Call of Duty part.


Background and issues of Call of Duty Black Ops 2
I was surfing around the net at various sites like Amazon and ran across Call of Duty Black Ops 2 and was looking at it as a game to use to take a break/indefinite hiatus form this game. I started reading the reviews and ran across this review: http://www.amazon.com/review/R14WN72...R14WN72HX6A137.

In it the person mentions how they played through BO2's campaign mode in 6 hours, which is like really amazing for a game like that to lack that much content; how there is rampant hacking/cheating on the multiplayers for it, and all the unbalanced weapons and issues with matchmaking system.

The Defiance game part
This made me think about the game we play (Defiance), and how at least our main story line takes a little more than 6 hours to play through, maybe about 12 at max, but for me the last time through was about 24 hours, wasn't really measuring it. And how we do have enough random content to allow people to PVE without having force them to use the matchmaker system to get into PVP events. Nice, good job on that TRION.

Then in looking at how the hacking is so rampant and they not banning cheaters, it reminded me of some of the pitfalls of this game. Then added to the match making issues we have with very few people at times in the queue and how the system feels so limiting in that regard to finding other players, well, it was more like echoing our concerns with this game.

And with the unbalancing in the weapons... Oh well, TRION please take not of this aspect too in our game and rebalance the weapons out eventually.

Conclusion
But all in all, Defiance is as good even with all the bugs we deal with, as CoD BO2, with a little less on the cheating side happening. Not sure if this what I really got from this or not, but it seemed to make sense at the time. TRION while making Defiance probably messed up on a few things, but in comparing it with other shooters, it seems it is at least on par with what is currently out there if not better in some regards. I know, the next generation of games will likely have some differences that cause them to be better than Defiance, but for the short period of time that is left before the next consoles are released and next generation of graphics cards are released well, TRION did an "ok" job. Not a stellar job, but an "ok" one.

Okays, that was all I wanted to mention and it was mostly my two cents...

But what do you all think?

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I have compared this game to COD as well and agree it is ok. But when it comes to map variety, COD is the king. How many times can you play Freight Yard? I used to love Observatory, but burned out. I feel like the rotation of BO2 kept similar game modes fresh at least.

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Originally Posted by Coolrockski

I have compared this game to COD as well and agree it is ok. But when it comes to map variety, COD is the king. How many times can you play Freight Yard? I used to love Observatory, but burned out. I feel like the rotation of BO2 kept similar game modes fresh at least.

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Awh, so we need more PVE and PVP dungeons to get the same effect in this game. That would help a lot to develop this game into something that can stand the test of time. Hopefully in an upcoming DLC or patch they'll add (and above all else... KEEP IN GAME) more maps for people to play for PVE and PVP. Just without using open world PVP any more than it is already in Shadow Wars.

There is a video on IGN that shows a new map, DOWNTOWN...it just shows it at the choosing menu, not the actual level.

Black Ops 2 was my least favorite COD game. MW2 will always be my favorite.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nyako

Okay, guys I'll warn you all this isn't another negative thread, but a realization thread of something I nearly stepped into so to speak. And this is about Defiance game, even though I start out with the Call of Duty part.


Background and issues of Call of Duty Black Ops 2
I was surfing around the net at various sites like Amazon and ran across Call of Duty Black Ops 2 and was looking at it as a game to use to take a break/indefinite hiatus form this game. I started reading the reviews and ran across this review: http://www.amazon.com/review/R14WN72...R14WN72HX6A137.

In it the person mentions how they played through BO2's campaign mode in 6 hours, which is like really amazing for a game like that to lack that much content; how there is rampant hacking/cheating on the multiplayers for it, and all the unbalanced weapons and issues with matchmaking system.

The Defiance game part
This made me think about the game we play (Defiance), and how at least our main story line takes a little more than 6 hours to play through, maybe about 12 at max, but for me the last time through was about 24 hours, wasn't really measuring it. And how we do have enough random content to allow people to PVE without having force them to use the matchmaker system to get into PVP events. Nice, good job on that TRION.

Then in looking at how the hacking is so rampant and they not banning cheaters, it reminded me of some of the pitfalls of this game. Then added to the match making issues we have with very few people at times in the queue and how the system feels so limiting in that regard to finding other players, well, it was more like echoing our concerns with this game.

And with the unbalancing in the weapons... Oh well, TRION please take not of this aspect too in our game and rebalance the weapons out eventually.

Conclusion
But all in all, Defiance is as good even with all the bugs we deal with, as CoD BO2, with a little less on the cheating side happening. Not sure if this what I really got from this or not, but it seemed to make sense at the time. TRION while making Defiance probably messed up on a few things, but in comparing it with other shooters, it seems it is at least on par with what is currently out there if not better in some regards. I know, the next generation of games will likely have some differences that cause them to be better than Defiance, but for the short period of time that is left before the next consoles are released and next generation of graphics cards are released well, TRION did an "ok" job. Not a stellar job, but an "ok" one.

Okays, that was all I wanted to mention and it was mostly my two cents...

But what do you all think?

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1st 2 weeks of defiance was an absolut nightmare for me,it was routine live chat daily,evry problem i had it,BUT the GM team did as best as they could,to solve and resolve,since the 1st patch it has actually got better and better...COD and GEARS playres no offence cz i am one...want this very instant i play so should recieve it now attitude,so a problem occurs and if its not fixed imediatly ..bugger the game..defiance is and mmo on a console ie:SHOULDNT WORK,so grateful for what it is with all its cockamanie,,ive strted game again after doing evrything over and over has given it a fresh life....i dont play BO2 but i listen to my friends in party caht and its AIMHACKS...people dont die ect ect ect sounds awful and its like wne am i buying it,,yes for campainge defo but when pepes can use modded contollers and the web is full of "HOW TO RUIN BO2 cheating sites" its defiance all the way....defiance TD and freight bugs me i go play shadow wars,visa versa....and i dont care if no one agrress i sya it till im blue in the face DEFIANCE IS A BETA for mmo.s on next gen,its a tester and we all ahve the joy of contributing through blod,sweat, and smashed contollers.thank you trion for your efforts as so little say it,,my only issue with defiance even with all the bugs,,the achievements or what evr for sonys atempt at consoles is you made the achievements harder and more inventive as they are time based all of them,no challenge at all.lets hope the DLC's have better. DONE peace and happy arkbumming :)

Nice one, I think the fact that there is so many bugs in defiance after reading on a couple games is mostly trying to make an MMO for a console. I mean its possible, TRION proved that. However, the coding being a bit different between the two consoles and how much variety of PC hardware is out there, the game has a lot of issues likely some are revolving around trying to be compatible with all platforms that it currently is used on. The rest I'm not sure of, maybe in adequate testing in Alpha and Beta.

Like you though, I still view Defiance as Beta version 2 of the game, and that the DLC will bring it to a release candidate status. However, when compared to BO2 and others that have rampant hacking, cheating, bullying, griefing, etc. This game seems a bit subdued. Maybe this is because of how many players play Defiance, maybe its other reasons, but no matter the reason, at least Defiance has a more involved story line than just a story line that can be done in 6 hours on the hardest setting possible for the game. I mean wow... I'm assuming though that "Veteran" is the highest setting in BO2.

Both game developers should be lynched and burned at the stake.

Gaming industry needs to have a reality check, so sick of people supporting these god awful games. The last 3 years have been horse crap in gaming. We the community need to step up and tell these jerks that "No we are not going to take your crap, change your ways or loose our business"

There is very little cheating in the multiplayer on BLOP's 2 you find boosters which there is a quick report button and they do get banned fast. Otherwise there is was no mod menus available until recently and they can only be used with XBStealth and on RGH which is pretty pricey. Plus Treyarch is very well known for handing out bans and in hand with Microsoft loads of lifetime bans and console bans. I think Call of Duty probably has the highest ban rate and there is no discussion even though the xbox support boards are full of people trying to get unbanned. You abuse the game you are out. The only place they are more lenient is on zombies but they do reset that too and repeat offenses are banned.

You can watch the kill cam and theatre to see if people are cheating most of the time it is like here people think people better than them are cheating. Boosters are the main issue and I have run into a couple of lobbies where a lag switch was been used. Mainly the people using mods are playing on non xbox servers its a bigger problem over on PS3 I think.

Comparing the 2 games for me is like night and day. They have nothing in common and I know many people hate call of duty but its the biggest selling game of all time and many people love it. I have never had an issue with the games the last 2 campaigns were not great for me but still not bad my last fave was MW3 and I did prefer BF3 campaign to BLOPS 1 and 2.

Also please explain the unbalanced weapons? I can run positive even using one of the pre set classes when at level 1 - 8 when you have nothing unlocked. Now I have prestige master obviously everything is unlocked. Even running round with the worst gun in the game the SMR it is doable (I hate that gun though lol) As for matchmaking only time I have issues is playing with American friends I get bad lag then otherwise with it set to best its never an issue unless a friend does not have a dlc takes a bit longer then

OH NO... No staking any game developers. Not all the games released have been bad. TERA wasn't at first other than having no endgame... However, it didn't really live up to the hype much either. SWTOR was well... it kinda lived up to the hype and is a great game to some like me and I'm no Star Wars diehard fan, a fan yes, but not a diehard one.

Defiance feels like TERA in beta, but then when TERA did go public, it was a little lacking on endgame content until about August or September of last year when Argon Corpus and Manaya's Core dungeons were released with the new weapon set. (TRION don't wait that long to give us the DLC-1 please). It improved for a while, then went totally unbalanced, then got rebalanced, then well... went F2P.

Defiance is also kind of like Second Life back in the early 2000s. I remember playing it and seeing nothing in game to do. Nothing to play or work with in it at first. Then people started making content drew players in like me and even some of those players like me went to adding to the content there and boom. A vibrant game emerged, but even it has had its ups and downs. I view this as one of the downs in TRION's Defiance moment. It will improve with time I'm sure, at least that is what I keep trying to convince myself of.

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Originally Posted by dominad

Also please explain the unbalanced weapons? I can run positive even using one of the pre set classes when at level 1 - 8 when you have nothing unlocked. Now I have prestige master obviously everything is unlocked. Even running round with the worst gun in the game the SMR it is doable (I hate that gun though lol) As for matchmaking only time I have issues is playing with American friends I get bad lag then otherwise with it set to best its never an issue unless a friend does not have a dlc takes a bit longer then

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From what I'm gathering from the reviewer it is mostly on the PC side not the XBox or PS3 side that people are cheating on. It is also more unbalanced weapon wise in that you can use one weapon to kill pretty much anything in the game. And that certain weapons are less effective against players than that one weapon which I think the reviewer said was a SMG.

I'm pretty sure that most of the hacking and cheating is because of the way the game works on a PC, anyone can really make any program out there to cheat anything on a PC game. I'm also pretty sure not many are banned in such a way as to be permanently banned from the game. I mean even Second Life has a way that few people ever use to still play the game while banned. I don't really know what these methods are or at liberty to talk further about them, but many content developers I knew there including myself knew about them, because usually the people that were banned had stole intellectual property from one of us developers.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Coolrockski

I have compared this game to COD as well and agree it is ok. But when it comes to map variety, COD is the king. How many times can you play Freight Yard? I used to love Observatory, but burned out. I feel like the rotation of BO2 kept similar game modes fresh at least.

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I would have thrown Black Ops 2 against the wall if it wasn't for the fact I care about the wall. I don't care how wonderful the maps were, but I didn't think too many were that great at all.

I've played every COD game and years since I first started I now wonder why. There may be other rage inducing games out there but COD is the king.

And there is a rapid advancement in the art of cheating and just craptastic playing that is COD at its best. If in COD 4 it took players 3 months to actually begin to cheat, in Black Ops 2 it started on the first day. Black Ops 2 camping in MP started immediately and made at least one map unplayable to most people-no one every wanted to play Aftermath EVER. I liked that map and hated the stupid campers. Cargo, the map with all the shipping containers, what a piece of crap. And this took camping to a new level with people with shields and trophy systems camped out in that one building, sometimes whole teams would be camped out there.

It's almost like lag switches and modded controllers were invented with COD in mind and boosting-I can't tell you how many times this has been an issue. Rage quitting also was an artform in Black Ops 2-I have never before experienced so many people just screaming at the game and the players and leaving matches.

Now I'm not here defending the PvP in this game, either. I don't like it. I don't like the glitches, don't care for some of the players and I particularly dislike how most of the crap that is used is stuff that people pulled in COD games or Halo games. If they're not jumping around, they're cloak camping. Trion it's assumed will be coming out with more maps. Ho hum. The glitches and exploits and bugs and crap that can be fixed in PvP needs to be fixed, but at least in one way this PvP is better than in COD games-it's less serious and can be more fun at times.


I came to this game after being angry with what Bioware did to Mass Effect and being totally enraged at the crap that was Black Ops 2 and disgusted by the shortness of Halo 4 and the horribly bland MP maps in it, and even given all the bugs in this game (and there are some bad ones for sure for some people), this game wins hands down.

I'm sorry, I know people love Halo but it's not all that-it's been how many years and as yet they have not created some new and more interesting and less cartoony foes than what they have? And it's like it's the same game over and over again, just as COD games seem that way now too. I think Halo 4 is better than Black Ops 2 and it's ok, but in terms of relative ok-ness, this one is ok-er. It's a heck of a lot more fun for me than either of those two game but especially Black Ops 2-in Halo 4 I didn't get enraged-I got bored, so I left.

I would agree that a lot of those CoD and Halo issues are within this game as well. It is amazing though that TRION has let such issues persist for so long in this game as well almost as if they don't care if this game becomes another CoD or Halo Multiplayer issues and all. I like Halo, but mostly only for the art.

This game though has one flaw that you mentioned there at the end. It is/has gotten enough people bored that if they don't fix those issues and add enough content to keep people's attention soon, most will leave. And if they are anything like me, they would leave and not return to the games, which I've done for games like AION and some other free to play games. I just know that out of all the evils of other games that are Shooters out there, this is nice but no were near the great game it could be.

Compare apples to apples please, FPS is not 3PS.

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Originally Posted by X64

Compare apples to apples please, FPS is not 3PS.

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Comparing any shooter to any shooter, especially Defiance.

If you [anyone] have/has something qualitative to add to the thread respond, otherwise, ignore this thread.

This thread is suppose to show how Defiance game is either equal to or in some ways doing things better than other shooters currently out now... and also where its limits are, and hopefully to get Developer involvement to improve this game even further.

Star Wars Battlefront 2 Pummels all other games.

How so? What issues did it have that Defiance fixes? What issues does Defiance have that it fixes?

Please keep posts on topic please people.

I just found this video on youtube, I think this is why so many complains about this game. The first 1000 EGO or less people don't realize what it takes to get to high EGO levels, aka grinding. Maybe that is how they get lock in, or something. I'm guessing that is how people were with CoD, they liked the story line and concept and was enough to lock them into playing the game. Wonder if he played it up to 4000, if he would feel the same way he did in that video.

Watch and see.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3o9GoesH5A

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Originally Posted by dominad

There is very little cheating in the multiplayer on BLOP's 2 you find boosters which there is a quick report button and they do get banned fast. Otherwise there is was no mod menus available until recently and they can only be used with XBStealth and on RGH which is pretty pricey. Plus Treyarch is very well known for handing out bans and in hand with Microsoft loads of lifetime bans and console bans. I think Call of Duty probably has the highest ban rate and there is no discussion even though the xbox support boards are full of people trying to get unbanned. You abuse the game you are out. The only place they are more lenient is on zombies but they do reset that too and repeat offenses are banned.

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This is all true. Treyarch has really taken anti cheating methods and banning to a new level with Black Ops 2. It's the cleanest that series has been since the early days of COD4 before it became a hackfest. Other devs could really learn a lesson from how they have implemented their anti-cheat strategies but then Treyarch has a much bigger staff with a whole anti-cheat team where Trion is very small.

Ew CoD...why are you even comparing it with anything?

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Originally Posted by TH3STEVE

This is all true. Treyarch has really taken anti cheating methods and banning to a new level with Black Ops 2. It's the cleanest that series has been since the early days of COD4 before it became a hackfest. Other devs could really learn a lesson from how they have implemented their anti-cheat strategies but then Treyarch has a much bigger staff with a whole anti-cheat team where Trion is very small.

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Ok this really must be a joke and maybe it's just that that's what they do with the PC version, but on the xbox cheating lives. And if it's not cheating, it's boosting, camping (in all the infinite and craptastic varieties), terrible lag, games where most player are just dumped, matches that restart sometimes 6 times before people just give up and all quit, and other stuff. Sure, most of this isn't cheating but it's still on Treyarch. In Black Ops 1 very soon into the game's life people found a way to keep the other team from opening care packages. Going out of map-that's become an art form in COD games, along with finding elevators in the games.

Yes, so they have an in game "report" system-so did the other COD games. And Black Ops 2 had the worst beginning of any of the other CODs. You really need to look at all the issues they had with it, some issues that never got fixed. A huge segment of players couldn't play online at all. Then the game would reset people's progress and more. And this is a game in a franchise that should have worked most of the bugs out by now.

As I said, I've never before experienced the kind of anger that people had with Black Ops 2. Black Ops 2 on the xbox in the first month of play was already well on its way to becoming like COD4 after months of play, or MW2 after months into its life. It's like now as soon as a COD game comes out someone has already figured out exploits. That is if they can even get on the servers to play.