Shotgun Nano Discussion

[Sdric]

The bug does exist with any gun that can get certain bonus stats through mods.
As far as I have been told it's all about a certain way of modding your weapon and adding certain perks for some weird proc rates.
(Just like hipfire crit-rate makes Sniper Rifles deal 0 damage)

Thus Tachmags can also be glitched.

[MartyrMarcus]

I've seen that video before however I do have problems with it. Primarily it shows two extremes. Now correct me if I'm wrong but his first shotgun (the one I assume is "not Glitched") never procs Syphon once. That alone makes me question the video.

The second weapon he uses procs a lot, that's a given, however (for the first three enemies anyway) he moves away far to fast to see any reliable information. For the next four enemies yes it procs every time but only 3 max from what I can see ( and considering fraggers fire in busts of two, each firing 12 pellets. 3 procs out of a possible 24 isn't unbelievable.)

Now if every single pellet was procing every time he fired. Then I would say that's Glitched. If its procing every time but only 1/2/3 pellets are procing its not glitched, just broken game mechanics.

Personally I don't like syphon in PvP atm becuase you pretty much have to use it, which I feel takes away from Tactical gameplay, but I don't think it's a glitch.

People are crying glitch far to easily. A glitch is a malfunction, something not working as intended. Syphon seems to be working perfectly as intended. Does that make it balanced? Hell no, but that doesn't make it a glitch.

[dreamon666]

I've seen that video before however I do have problems with it. Primarily it shows two extremes. Now correct me if I'm wrong but his first shotgun (the one I assume is "not Glitched") never procs Syphon once. That alone makes me question the video.

The second weapon he uses procs a lot, that's a given, however (for the first three enemies anyway) he moves away far to fast to see any reliable information. For the next four enemies yes it procs every time but only 3 max from what I can see ( and considering fraggers fire in busts of two, each firing 12 pellets. 3 procs out of a possible 24 isn't unbelievable.)

Now if every single pellet was procing every time he fired. Then I would say that's Glitched. If its procing every time but only 1/2/3 pellets are procing its not glitched, just broken game mechanics.

Personally I don't like syphon in PvP atm becuase you pretty much have to use it, which I feel takes away from Tactical gameplay, but I don't think it's a glitch.

People are crying glitch far to easily. A glitch is a malfunction, something not working as intended. Syphon seems to be working perfectly as intended. Does that make it balanced? Hell no, but that doesn't make it a glitch.

Lol do you know what proccing with every pellet is? That's the same as proccing with every single bullet, you would only need 5 bullets or pellets to kill somebody, so even if you'd hit with a VOT Fragger 5 pellets at 20m away you'd still instantly kill him with one shot...
A normal VOT Fragger procs 2 times (3 times max if you're lucky) with 8 shells, so you can say that proccing with every shell is kinda OP. Because Syphon gives an additional 450 dmg when it procs and that damage you do gets converted to your health + it can jump to nearby enemies and also proc on them... so how OP is Syphon when it procs with every shell and you're talking about every pellet? So that would mean that one shell would proc 12 times if you'd hit everything up close, so that is 12 x 450dmg= 5400dmg in one shot...
I already find proccing every shell cheating because they kill you in less than 4 shells unless you have an extremely tough shield of over 1900 hitpoints.

And how can it not be a glitch? If you look in the video you can see his health go up everytime he takes a small amount of damage, so it does proc every time + he shows how a normal unglitched VOT Fragger works (it did proc once in the video, but his shield was full then). So the unglitched version is how it's supposed to work, the glitched version is obviously a malfunction that WASN'T INTENDED.

[jotheshow]

So me and Kay Cypher tried tons VOT fragger and we can say 90% there are NO GLITCH SYPHON, just some weapons have more chance to proc than other. Nano, VOT, Pulser are the best proc weapons for any nano not only syphon.

[dreamon666]

So me and Kay Cypher tried tons VOT fragger and we can say 90% there are NO GLITCH SYPHON, just some weapons have more chance to proc than other. Nano, VOT, Pulser are the best proc weapons for any nano not only syphon.

Yeah i know, but we are talking about a very small percentage here, about 5 people actively playing PVP use the glitch.

[MartyrMarcus]

Lol do you know what proccing with every pellet is? That's the same as proccing with every single bullet, you would only need 5 bullets or pellets to kill somebody, so even if you'd hit with a VOT Fragger 5 pellets at 20m away you'd still instantly kill him with one shot...

Yes I know what procing every pellet is. From the video you posted (and I was watching only damage numbers here, not his shield) He was procing per pellet, which is also what I've found on all shotguns with syphon and don't fire slugs (as you can't test it with any other nano becuase none of the others give any sign), hence my first post. If I fire a Nano Fragger I'm firing 16 pellets (8 per round) if I'm procing 3/4 per 18 pellets then that lines up with other weapons, give or take. If this is the case then I would say Trion need to do something about it because that is OP.

A normal VOT Fragger procs 2 times (3 times max if you're lucky) with 8 shells, so you can say that proccing with every shell is kinda OP. Because Syphon gives an additional 450 dmg when it procs and that damage you do gets converted to your health + it can jump to nearby enemies and also proc on them... so how OP is Syphon when it procs with every shell and you're talking about every pellet? So that would mean that one shell would proc 12 times if you'd hit everything up close, so that is 12 x 450dmg= 5400dmg in one shot...
I already find proccing every shell cheating because they kill you in less than 4 shells unless you have an extremely tough shield of over 1900 hitpoints.

You've jumped from pellets to shells here and back again, but from what I've seen, both in that video and personally, this seems to be what is happening. It is quite possible (although improbable) to do 5400 damage just with syphon if all pellets proc. This is a broken mechanic if that's the case. But if this is the way Trion designed it, then it isn't a glitch. It's a broken mechanic.

And how can it not be a glitch? If you look in the video you can see his health go up everytime he takes a small amount of damage, so it does proc every time + he shows how a normal unglitched VOT Fragger works (it did proc once in the video, but his shield was full then). So the unglitched version is how it's supposed to work, the glitched version is obviously a malfunction that WASN'T INTENDED.

This is you assuming that the first weapon was "unglitched" for all we know they should be procing per pellet and thus the first shotgun that only proc'd once was the "glitched" one.

TL: DR Syphon on shotguns IS broken, but that doesn't make it a glitch.

Edit: If there was a way to set it with other Nano's, For example if it proc'd per pellet with a fire nano the duration was longer or the DoT did more damage, Would this be broken still? or would it lead to more interesting game play?

[dreamon666]

-Yes I know what procing every pellet is. From the video you posted (and I was watching only damage numbers here, not his shield) He was procing per pellet, which is also what I've found on all shotguns with syphon and don't fire slugs (as you can't test it with any other nano becuase none of the others give any sign), hence my first post.

-You've jumped from pellets to shells here and back again...

-_- Are you sure you know what a "pellet" and a "shell" is? Because i don't think you know the difference here, no offence...
If you do know that, then just skip the next 3 lines...otherwise just read it.

A shell is a cartridge which can contain a slug (single huge lead ball), buckshot (8 bullet-size balls) or birdshot (up to 24 small balls). The lead balls inside the shell are called pellets, so the buckshot shells contain 8 pellets, the birdshot contains 24 pellets, and so on...



Anyway, even if you knew that then i still think you're mistaken between proc-chance and proc itself + the fact that not every pellet has a seperate proc-chance, because every pellet in the shell gives the shell itself more chance to proc syphon, but pellets do not have a seperate chance to proc syphon.
For example: each pellet adds +5% to the shell to proc syphon, so a VOT Fragger has 20% more chance to proc syphon per shell than other shotguns (it has 4 more pellets per shell). If every pellet had 5% chance to proc syphon seperately, then you could idd proc more than once per shell, but this is impossible. I've never even seen a glitched VOT Fragger proc syphon more than once per shell.

[Shakk]

And how can it not be a glitch? If you look in the video you can see his health go up everytime he takes a small amount of damage, so it does proc every time + he shows how a normal unglitched VOT Fragger works (it did proc once in the video, but his shield was full then). So the unglitched version is how it's supposed to work, the glitched version is obviously a malfunction that WASN'T INTENDED.

This doesn't seem to be entirely correct. My theories is that individual guns has different procc rates. Lets say that a certain type of gun can have 5-20% procc chance, I dont know any numbers ofc since this is a theory of mine.
I have found lots of VOT Fraggers during my hours in defiance and I ALWAYS try out the proccrate of those just for the fun of it. Some proccs like absolute batshtako crazy while others barely proc at all, even if they are the same color.

This doesn't only imply on the VOT Fraggers. As some of you know i play alot with assault rifles and these act in the same way, some proccs more than others, yet again same colors etc.
I feel its more likely that some guns just have higher proccrate than everybody is running with glitched guns.

Shakk

[dreamon666]

@ Shakk: ofcourse not everybody is walking around with glitched guns, and ofcourse some proc more than other, VOT Fraggers and Tachmags proc more than any other gun in their class/weapon type. However, still a VOT Fragger can proc even more than it already can, because now they actually proc about 2-3 times maximum per 8 shells, but a glitched one can proc up to 7 times per 8 shells, as the video illustrates So like i said, there is still a difference between the normal high-proccing VOT Fragger and the glitched insanely-proccing VOT Fragger.

A few examples: Kay Cypher and Henna from WTF clan do not have a glitched VOT Fragger, however, Atom or Vodka do have a glitched one, because in PVP you cannot kill them single-handed (when they're glitching that is), because their health regenerates with every 2 shells or even every single shell.

[Shakk]

I'm pretty sure i have a VOT Fragger in my possesion that can proc more than 2-3 times on 8 shells, I'm not gonna swear on it and Im not gonna try it out right now as im just about to go to bed but we could have a look at that one tomorrow, perhaps.

I also had a Tachmag that I'm sure procced far more than 2-3 times on a clip (unmodded), although that one has gone to my salvage pile since my inventory space is worth more than a mere SMG.

Note: Both of the guns were loot that i had found, none else but me have used them.

I would love to see the siphon get nerfed tho. Its far too strong, glitched or not.

Shakk