Shotgun Nano Discussion

[KayCypher]

Thanks to MartyrMarcus for his point of view, I totally agree with this you know it, I explained it a lot, no need to come back on this.

And as Shakk is explaining, there is no "glitched" weapons, only a random part of them proccing more than others, and it depends of their rarities, their EGO levels and yes, of the way you mod them, and even of the default bonuses on them O_O !

Nothing is absolute, I detailed the phenomenon of the syphon proccing system in another thread frame by frame, pellet per pellet, bullet per bullet... You still have no possibility to fully control it, but you can manage to maximize your chances to trigger it though...

Here is more knowledge about this :

- weapons procc a lot less when they are @2800+ EGO level, we still don't know why.
- weapons proccing more are the purple rarity level weapons (EPIC)
- legendary (orange) weapons barely procc, except VOT Fragger NANO wich can procc up to 5 times in a single SHELL (not pellet ofc)
- green and blue weapons sometimes don't procc in an entire mag, even if you aim for the head
- weapons under 750 EGO level procc insanely often...

With all this debate about glitched weapons or not, we took back all our testing with JoTheShow yesterday, on VOT Pulser Tachmag, VOT Fragger, and VOT Fragger NANO, in PvE and PvP.

Conclusion, there is still a big big big part of random in all this, you can never control it totally. But, the fact is all the details above are real, plus, I tried a lot of modding on many VOT Fraggers WHILE testing to see if there is a difference, and I switched perks for the same reasons, and I switched Shields for the same reasons.

Want to know more indeed ? Here you go :

- You procc more if you put a "Falloff damage +8" barrel mod on weapons instead of a "x1.07/x1.07 dmg" mod
- A part of the procc chance in PvP is kind of calculated from the regen rate/regen delay of your Shield doesn't affect in any way in PvE, I let you test all this to find the best one XD
- You procc more if the Nano Effect of your gun is the same of the Elemental Resistance of your Shield
- You procc more if you use the "Deadly Cascade" perk (still don't know why but I have a pretty good idea about this...)
- You gain a bit more life when you procc syphon if you have the "Regeneration" perk enabled and if your Shield has a life regeneration bonus
- You procc more with overcharge EGO power
- To procc, if your weapon does not have a "critical hit +1.15x" base bonus or stuff like that, there is indeed no need to aim for the head to proc, you can just aim for kind of the "halfway line" of the body, or whatever you are shooting at... If it's humanoid, imagine you aim for the spine, even if the ennemy is facing you. If it's robotic or a vehicle, draw a halfway line of the object in your mind and shoot at it...

Knowing all this, after of course HOURS of testing, mods/shields/perks switching, and trust me, in long term it does cost a lot or ressources -_- Then now I think I've just created a hell of a VOT Fragger...

I just took back an old VOT Fragger from a low EGO level friend. EPIC VOT Fragger with Syphon @567 EGO lvl, no particular bonus indeed, except a cool +10% EGO recharge after full reload of gun, and +15% dmg to vehicles as an XP bonus but, with the "Falloff dmg +8" on it, and the usual mods at other places, with the correct perks, the correct shield with correct bonuses etc... This one just proccs up to 2 or 3 times per shell (so up to 4 to 6 times per shot because its burst two-shots), even in PvP, even against vehicles...

I've tested it yesterday evening in PvP on FY and Observatory, that's just insane O_O I was able to Solo a Cerberus without even loosing half of my shield, because shooting on the halfway line as explained above allowed me to procc syphon on Cerberus + the 3 guys in it, so my life was like UP UP UP UP UP UP !!!

Against people, if you add all the informations in this post to the informations I gave in the other thread on the forums, you will understand it is really devastating, proccing around at least 1 time per shell often 2, so 2 times or 4 per shot per people shot before stacked again etc...(wich can give 10 to 15 proccs per mag), it kinds of turn you almost invincible because of the life and shield it gives you back, and dealing a lot of damage around...

So trust me, it took a lot of time to lead to this kind of "glitched" weapons, but as MartyrMarcus said, it's not a glitch, the proof is that without the proper mods/perks/shield/aiming combination, no weapon will procc all the time for like ... no reason XD But on the contrary, if you had spend a lot of time experimenting these kinds of combination, in PvE and PvP, just like we did in the WTF Clan, you would have ended on the same conclusions than us, the game is coded in a particular way about the Syphon, and with practice, and tests, you can manage to maximize a lot the chances for a weapon to procc... That's all.

So then, I think now you know everything about the Syphon's based weapons, do your own tests and don't hesitate, like us, to report weird weapons behaviors like this, because clearly, we always said it and we always reported it everytime we figured a new way to enhance the procc chances on various weapons, the procc is totally OOOOOOOP compared to others nano effects...

And just to make things clear about my "new" VOT Fragger roxxor always proccing around, I played it yesterday to test my point and my conclusions about all this. I won't play it because it's clearly too easy to play with it...

Have fun !

[jiji]

Bonjour,non. aurevoir.

[Sdric]

Are you sure with that shield and deadly cascade thing?

Your post made me curious.
Just tried it in PvE and I don't notice any change.
(OK, I have been accidently using Cascade in my Arkfall build for a while after leveling a Mass Canon, maybe I'm used to it)

[KayCypher]

I don't know for you Sdric O_O Just try a lot of things and see by yourself, as I said, it depends a lot of weapon itself, among other things, sometimes it affects proc, sometimes not, big part of random... Plus I figred this randomly by testing my gun on another loadout in wich I was using the cascade perk, and I was like "OMG I proc twice than before wtf ???" The only difference was this perk compared to my other loadout so then..... And even if I tested on the same packs of mobs, waiting for them to respawn to be able to test stuffs and things in the exact same situation each time by moving only one variable one after the other etc...

I just wrote down here what, in my opinion, affects the procc chances positively, in both PvE and PvP, I didnt mention HOW MUCH it affects it ^^ Take time to experiment things by yourself, you'll be surprised to see some results sometimes trust me XD

And about the Shield regen rate/regen delay, and assortment of shield's nano resistance and corresponding nano effect proccing on weapon, yeah, it definitely does something in PvP... Since almost everyone is playing a Syphon weapon, no matter what the weapon's class is, I even wonder if the syphon you "dodge" or "absorb" with the shield nano resistance is not sometimes kind of transferred into your own procc chances in the next few shots O_O Because sometimes it proccs so hard that I am actually wondering why I am proccing ! As an exemple, I shot some shots on two players yesterday, 2 shots on one and 3 on the other, ofc I procced each time each shot, but the two of them didn't die, and then, while reloading, PEW PEW PEW ! 3 more proccs while reloading and I wasn't even shooting and BAM ! dead guys... Like 2 seconds after I stopped shooting... There is really something wrong about all this... Experiment stuff you'll see, some things are weird, really...

Anyway, you can try to join me ingame if you want more details or have a test session with me because yeah, I forgot to mention a last thing, we noticed another last thing... If you get a VOT Fragger, fitting all the caracteristics for it to be kind of a OP VOT Fragger, proccing each time and all the stuff, but then it doesn't procc when you use it and you don't know why, just trade it to a friend who successfully proccs with weapons, let him use it for a while, and take it back from him, magically, it will continue to procc when YOU use it O_O We still don't know why actually... Maybe it's a karma or a mojo thing XD

"Don't have your own Mojo Baby ? Use a Friend's Mojo HOOOO YEAAAAAH !!!" ^^

Have fun !

PS : Now you really have no excuses left for not proccing all the time XD

[Sdric]

Thanks for the offer!

I really am interested in trying this out.
But I guess that it takes some time, doesn't it?
However I'm stduying for my exams atm - I only check the forums within my coffee breaks which, I admit, are quite a few :P
Once I start playing I'm in danger of letting my grades slide


P.S:
I'll go online for 1 or 2 rounds of PvP every few hours though.
Feel free to contact me if you're up for a match

[MartyrMarcus]

Thanks to MartyrMarcus for his point of view, I totally agree with this you know it, I explained it a lot, no need to come back on this.

And as Shakk is explaining, there is no "glitched" weapons, only a random part of them proccing more than others, and it depends of their rarities, their EGO levels and yes, of the way you mod them, and even of the default bonuses on them O_O !

Nothing is absolute, I detailed the phenomenon of the syphon proccing system in another thread frame by frame, pellet per pellet, bullet per bullet... You still have no possibility to fully control it, but you can manage to maximize your chances to trigger it though...

Here is more knowledge about this :

- weapons procc a lot less when they are @2800+ EGO level, we still don't know why.
- weapons proccing more are the purple rarity level weapons (EPIC)
- legendary (orange) weapons barely procc, except VOT Fragger NANO wich can procc up to 5 times in a single SHELL (not pellet ofc)
- green and blue weapons sometimes don't procc in an entire mag, even if you aim for the head
- weapons under 750 EGO level procc insanely often...

With all this debate about glitched weapons or not, we took back all our testing with JoTheShow yesterday, on VOT Pulser Tachmag, VOT Fragger, and VOT Fragger NANO, in PvE and PvP.

Conclusion, there is still a big big big part of random in all this, you can never control it totally. But, the fact is all the details above are real, plus, I tried a lot of modding on many VOT Fraggers WHILE testing to see if there is a difference, and I switched perks for the same reasons, and I switched Shields for the same reasons.

Want to know more indeed ? Here you go :

- You procc more if you put a "Falloff damage +8" barrel mod on weapons instead of a "x1.07/x1.07 dmg" mod
- A part of the procc chance in PvP is kind of calculated from the regen rate/regen delay of your Shield doesn't affect in any way in PvE, I let you test all this to find the best one XD
- You procc more if the Nano Effect of your gun is the same of the Elemental Resistance of your Shield
- You procc more if you use the "Deadly Cascade" perk (still don't know why but I have a pretty good idea about this...)
- You gain a bit more life when you procc syphon if you have the "Regeneration" perk enabled and if your Shield has a life regeneration bonus
- You procc more with overcharge EGO power
- To procc, if your weapon does not have a "critical hit +1.15x" base bonus or stuff like that, there is indeed no need to aim for the head to proc, you can just aim for kind of the "halfway line" of the body, or whatever you are shooting at... If it's humanoid, imagine you aim for the spine, even if the ennemy is facing you. If it's robotic or a vehicle, draw a halfway line of the object in your mind and shoot at it...

Knowing all this, after of course HOURS of testing, mods/shields/perks switching, and trust me, in long term it does cost a lot or ressources -_- Then now I think I've just created a hell of a VOT Fragger...

I just took back an old VOT Fragger from a low EGO level friend. EPIC VOT Fragger with Syphon @567 EGO lvl, no particular bonus indeed, except a cool +10% EGO recharge after full reload of gun, and +15% dmg to vehicles as an XP bonus but, with the "Falloff dmg +8" on it, and the usual mods at other places, with the correct perks, the correct shield with correct bonuses etc... This one just proccs up to 2 or 3 times per shell (so up to 4 to 6 times per shot because its burst two-shots), even in PvP, even against vehicles...

I've tested it yesterday evening in PvP on FY and Observatory, that's just insane O_O I was able to Solo a Cerberus without even loosing half of my shield, because shooting on the halfway line as explained above allowed me to procc syphon on Cerberus + the 3 guys in it, so my life was like UP UP UP UP UP UP !!!

Against people, if you add all the informations in this post to the informations I gave in the other thread on the forums, you will understand it is really devastating, proccing around at least 1 time per shell often 2, so 2 times or 4 per shot per people shot before stacked again etc...(wich can give 10 to 15 proccs per mag), it kinds of turn you almost invincible because of the life and shield it gives you back, and dealing a lot of damage around...

So trust me, it took a lot of time to lead to this kind of "glitched" weapons, but as MartyrMarcus said, it's not a glitch, the proof is that without the proper mods/perks/shield/aiming combination, no weapon will procc all the time for like ... no reason XD But on the contrary, if you had spend a lot of time experimenting these kinds of combination, in PvE and PvP, just like we did in the WTF Clan, you would have ended on the same conclusions than us, the game is coded in a particular way about the Syphon, and with practice, and tests, you can manage to maximize a lot the chances for a weapon to procc... That's all.

So then, I think now you know everything about the Syphon's based weapons, do your own tests and don't hesitate, like us, to report weird weapons behaviors like this, because clearly, we always said it and we always reported it everytime we figured a new way to enhance the procc chances on various weapons, the procc is totally OOOOOOOP compared to others nano effects...

And just to make things clear about my "new" VOT Fragger roxxor always proccing around, I played it yesterday to test my point and my conclusions about all this. I won't play it because it's clearly too easy to play with it...

Have fun !

This is just...wow. That's some research you've done there. It does make me wonder if the same things will affect other nano's like fire. There's no quantifiable way to test that to my knowledge though cos fire is just fire regardless of number of procs, but it does make me wonder if this is just a problem with syphon or if it is all nano's.

Edit: On a personal note, stop killing me in PvP damnit kay!

[dreamon666]

@ Kay Cypher: Are you sure that it can proc more than once per shell? Because as i heard from a few sources the pellets give the shell in total a higher chance to proc syphon, so the more pellets in the shell the more chance the shell has to proc syphon once. But like you wrote it the pellets must each have a seperate proc-chance on them and be able to proc syphon once per pellet and not per shell.
So far i've never seen a "glitched" VOT Fragger proc more than once per shell, unless the dmg and regeneration when it double or triple procs per shell are instantly added in the double or triple amount. What i mean with that is that that if it procs 2 times per shell it will damage instantly 900 dmg instead of 2 times 450 dmg and will regenerate 900-1000 HP instead of 2 times 500 HP.
So if that's the case, then you might be right since you cannot see the two procs happens seperately and it will happen instantly in a larger amount.

Anyway, what i also found strange is that in Mezekyle's video he is still using the same perks and EGO power when he switches to the "glitched" VOT Fragger, it might only been modded differently, but if like you say that perks, loadout and EGO powers can influence the proc-chance dramatically, then i wonder why his first "unglitched" VOT Fragger only procs once after all those hits.
I know there is still some kind of randomness to it, but if you were right about the perks, shields and EGO powers, then he still would be able to proc a little more then just one time on 16 shells.

I also use a syphon resistance shield, falloff dmg +8 mod and the regeneration perk, however, in the videos i made i also checked to see if my Tachmag wasn't "glitched" by accident, but the most times it procced syphon in any video was 3 times in a clip of 80 bullets...

[KayCypher]

Yup Dreamon666, btw nice to see we can have finally a serious talk about all this without you flaming, so thanks for that...

As I said in all my posts, yes you can proc more than 1 time per shell. Knowing the Shell is composed by many pellets, if i didn't explain it well before, I can confirm you that Yes, each PELLET does actually have a chance to proc separately... So on a 12 pellets shell like the VOT Fragger, if you imagine that hypothetically you had a 100% chance to proc, it doesn't mean you would proc at each shell, but you would proc at each pellet, wich means 12 proccs on a single SHELL, so then basically 120 proccs (hypothetically) on a 10 shells magazine...

If you gather all the informations I gave about the Syphon Nano effect, it is actually possible to procc more than one time per shell, and that's what I managed to make with my own 567 EGO VOT Fragger, by testing a lot as I explained, actually in PvP, I procc 2 or 3 times by SHELL, yes... Because it bursts fire 2 shells in a single clic, it then proccs often 4 times in one single mouse clic... And yes that's insane.

We disagreed a lot about what can be called a glitch or not, I still think this can't be called a glitch because the phenomenon is actually managable, you can increase it, or decrease it, even if there is a big part of randomness in all this as I already said before.

And even if again you disagree, maybe it's because you don't pay enough attention while playing and shooting on the battleground, but I can assure you that your VOT Pulser Tachmag is "glitched" according to your own definition ;-) No offense, but for what I have noticed, when you proc, maybe on the screen you see only one purple video effect, and in the sound you hear only one big "PEW" effect, but I can assure you that seeing the life of the ennemy you are shooting at, you procc at least 2, sometimes 3 times each time you proc... I tested a lot of Pulser Tachmags, and yours is actually proccing a lot, but that's cool for you, because it's rare to get a weapon that fits all the caracteristics I've listed above, so keep it !!! Maybe you already noticed that since you play with it, you are a lot better and powerfull in PvP especially...

Plus, as you can guess, I couldn't know wich mods you had on your tachmag, and you see ? You exactly have the mods that increase the chances to procc a lot more, do you really think it's a coincidence ??? ^^

To detail the question you had about the notification on-screen about the damage numbers, the answer is "no", it doesn't stack or show itself as 1044 or 1566 damage, you have to really pay attention to this, but it just shows like 522 522 522 (for tachmag) 2 or 3 times (in PvP) or more (in PvE). The problem is, it's hard to see it because the numbers are actually written ON each others, almost perfectly superimposed, especially on the Tachmag because of its insane firerate... So it's really hard to see it, but if you just play a PvP game to do tests, and let the scoring aside, and just take the time to test and figure it out by yourself, you will see that on your tachmag, when you think you procc one time, you almost everytime procc 2 or 3 times because of everything I explained here and in the other thread about PvP players (number of bullets between "PROCC" and "TIK" if you remember), just pay attention, you will see I am not telling buullshhit. So when you say you only procc up to 3 or 4 times lucky in a whole mag of 80 bullets, indeed you procc 6 to 12 times... True story, just do as I say, go on battleground, shoot, test, watch, and you'll see I'm right, ask a clanmate if he wants to help you to do this by not moving and letting you shoot at him to see what's happening in real time (that's mostly how we do PvP test).

To MartyrMarcus, yup we did some research... Serious researches... I don't know a lot about other nano effects, I know sometimes fire proccs 2 or 3 times, you can see it because it always DoT @ 57dmg/s, and if you procc again, the numbers are actually displaying faster and faster. This is clearly a "finishing" nano effect in my opinion, especially on long range weapons when you try like "super-heroes" shot on targets moving laterally etc... Or when you are high as fnck and feel the vibe in your veins and you just empty a full mag in a bush or something because you saw something was moving or whatever the reason is, and then you have no bullets left, you must reload, your target is running away but HEY ! he's on fire... And you get the kill like 3 seconds later because he was burning. This stuff rocks on Manual Sniper Rifles, and FRC Heavy Assault Carbine, you can't imagine how many people I killed because of the fire... Plus, there is a build that gives you litterally almost 100% chances to proc when you use sniper rifles, from far away of course... I'm pretty sure some of you already know it

About the toxic, big problem, because no information is given about the amount of life or shield, displayed in numbers on the screen in real time, it's hard to guess if it can stack or not... When you procc, we just know the ennemy gets 25% more damage inflicted, but we don't know, because usually the guy dies fast after that, if it can stack up to 50% then 75% then 100% etc... We didn"t have the chance to count all this...

For the sludge, clearly no, no stacking, when you are under sludge, you just do half of damage and move slower, that's all, no stacking... Imagine a teamplay with 4 guys playing sludge in sync... The guy they shoot at just wont be able to move anymore, and would deal almost 0 dmg whatever the weapon he could use...

Electric damage just disable the HUDs, and DoT @ 7dmg/s. Thing is, as fire, if you procc more than once, the numbers are displaying faster, but really, 7dmg/s ? useless to me... it's not a nano to use for more damage really... In my opinion, this electric stuff just has to be used to disable for a while ennemy snipers, to give time to infantry to get him and destroy him in close combat, or a counter-sniper to aim him and destroy him too... It's more a strategical advantage than a damage based nano effect. And I think this is the way the devs wanted it to be used.

MartyrMarcus, what is your name ingame ? Because I never saw any MartyrMarcus on the Battleground, but I think it's because I see the accounts name in PvP instead of the nickname of the character... I will pay attention next time not to kill you and dance in front of you XD If you dance with me, during a PvP game, you will get a free VOT Fragger Syphon rofl ! Guaranteed 100% glitched, high as fnck and all the shhit XD

For all the other players reading this post, you can ask any question related to this post, I will try to answer it. I won't be able to play though next week because I need to travel to work ^^ But I will stay connected to the forums as much as I can.

Sorry for this another wall of text, but I think it's kind of usefull anyway so...

Anyway, have fun, never give up the experiments with nano effects/perks/shields etc... This game has plenty of secrets !!!

C'yah.

[Sdric]

Well I've got to disagree at one point Kay.

If low EGO actually effects the procrates it's definitely a glitch since "advanced" players can't ever receive a weapon by normal playing.

However, great reasearch over there!

[dreamon666]

@ Kay Cypher: srry that i don't use a normal quote, but your text does idd take alot of room. And yes iam actually a very reasonable person if you have valid arguements, like you just showed here, heck you might even have made me reconcider the fact that maybe my Tachmag procs more than normal... but when i ask people if they're glitching and all i get in response is: "no i don't glitch, you're just a noob who can't aim!", then i do tend to get more agressive... :s
Almost everybody i ever asked about the glitch on their VOT Fragger either responded childish or abusive, you're about the only person here online that actually tries to put energy and logic in their texts.
And just like i said before: you're not a bad person, i have nothing against you, but you just happen to be a co-leader of a clan with at least 2 known glitchers (now 3 with your new recruits).

Anyway, back ontopic: from my video footage i do not seem to proc more than 3 times with every kill i make (which usually takes and entire clip of 80 bullets or more), but that's because iam only counting the amounts by which my health actually regenerates. If my Tachmag can stack up several syphon procs and then convert them to health in one big health boost, then you could be right...
What i mean by this is for example: i proc syphon 2 times in a burst of 5 shots, but due to the fast rate of fire of the Tachmag it seems like the health goes up only once, while it's actually 2 times 450 HP regen. That's the only thing i can come up with to explain it. But i do swear to god (even though iam not religious) that on my video footage i can only see it go up 2 or 3 times maximum. I've already seen a Tachmag that did double that, so i can agree that mine procs more than normal, but i cannot really agree that it's "glitched" by the terms that i use for "glitched weapons" (proccing syphon over 6 times per clip).

PS: And like Sdric said: you CAN consider it to be a glitch for the reason he wrote + the fact that some random bugs influence it ALOT. Like you say it, you can influence or "tweak" it a little bit, but there's still alot of random factors and bugs that affect it. So it's not 100% manageable/controllable by the player. Therefor it is an exploitable bug, a.k.a: a "glitch".