Upcoming Balance Changes

[Shogo_Yahagi]

You mention a game that is 3 years old.games back then didn't stress graphics the way they do now.try pc gaming and you will understand what using an underpowered machine to play a video game does to your gaming experience.I also specificly mentioned xbox360and you compare what I'm talking about to a 3 year old game on a ps3

You said this generation of consoles was the problem. I said they're not pushing the boundaries on a console from this generation, and I used a game that's 3 years old to show that they haven't even kept up with what that developer was doing then. I don't have an Xbox, so I'll leave Xbox comparisons to someone who does.

As for graphics, you can look up some MAG screenshots and see what kind of graphics it had. I'd say they're comparable to Defiance. The difference is that MAG had massive draw ranges, rendered everything around you, and ran silky smooth, even with 256 players. There's a particularly telling screenshot near the top of the results of a player shooting at paratroopers dropping into the action. Those are other players, dropping live into the battle; in Defiance, you can't even see a target that far away, much less shoot at it.

[KTCAOP]

No offense there guy but you are completely utterly and totally wrong and incorrect.

Let me show you why using basic math and the screengrab provided.

1. Edgalis Thorali has 29 kills and registered 2105543 damage. That is an average of 72604 damage per kill.

2. Keevan has 332 kills and registered 1150568 damage. That is an average damage of 3465 damage per kill.

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8. Hanover Fist has 22 kills and registered 543782 damage. That is an average damage of 24717 damage per kill.


Are you really trying to convince everyone that I had more than tripled the nearest person in kills (more than 5-6 most other people) yet had did an average damage of less than 1/20th of the person above me and 1/7th as the person 6 spots below me. No that math does not add up and the only logical conclusion left to draw is the damage registered ONLY counted for actual Arkfall goals, that being the crystals themselves AND the boss. Nothing, I repeat NOTHING else counts towards your scoreboard.

The proof is in the pudding so to speak.

So then how do you account for blue crystals Arkfalls? It's really not that hard to test. Go into an arkfall and shoot anything but the crystal, at the end, when it shows you your damage, etc., look at what it says. It will give you a damage score. Both damage to the Arkfall/Boss and to the creeps matter. To prove it, the following screenshot was taken from me when I did no damage to the arkfall or to the boss whatsoever. You will notice that the damage there is counted, which is the same statistic used on the scoreboard.

I really have no idea what your math is going on about, damage is damage, you did a lot of damage, you probably killed a lot of skitterlings and other spawn, but you still did damage. We both agree that kills don't matter, but the damage you did to whatever it was you killed *did* matter. You are not wrong that crystals and bosses count for the scoreboard, but you are mistaken in saying that is the only thing that matters. Furthermore, there is the scaling factor as well. If you are by yourself at an Arkfall, things have less HP so you might've been able to kill more things, or maybe you just focused on skitterlings as I said earlier, or maybe on the converse the other person just had a bunch more people with him or, or, or.

Fight an Arkfall where you don't damage the crystal or the boss. At the end of it, look at your damage. Again, please account for the damage score when it comes to Blue Arkfalls as well. I'll try running through a minor and a major arkfall myself purposefully trying to avoid the major boss or the ark core.

[KTCAOP]

Attached are two screenshots of arkfalls that I just completed. The first one was a minor red crystal arkfall. I did my absolute best to hit everything *BUT* the crystals. So unless you are saying I did that much damage on accident....



The next screenshot was from a Scrapper Major Arkfall. Once again, I went out of my way to not hit ANYTHING of either the Arkfall Cores, the Arms, or the Progenitor. So again, unless you are saying I really, really misaimed and did that much damage to the boss or crystals....



Again, both of these had objectives to hit the Core or the Scrapper Cores, I went out of my way to avoid hitting them. If you would like to know what I focused on, I'd be happy to tell you.

Again, I went out of my way to not touch the boss, crystals, or cores.

Feel free to try to replicate, go into an arkfall and shoot everything but the arkfall. Also, as I asked before, please feel free to account for the blue arkfalls and how their damages are calculated (you can't attack the core, those are just waves).

[Indra Echo]

As far as balance changes, I think people are making far too much of this. No, I really don't want the SAW nerfed but that's for selfish reasons-SAWs are my security blankets in the game. But that's the problem. I think balance changes whether it's nerfing or buffing can help to avoid stagnancy. I've seen it in other games, where everything boils down to 1 or 2 builds. And not everyone can attain those builds right away so they become frustrated-it turns new players away. Or it turns those away that don't know how to use the build right. Dynamically changing the balance knocks us back on our heels and does force us to change what we're used to. That's not a bad thing.

And here's something else. People in PvP insist that they always top the scoreboard because of their skills and yet when Trion says they'll nerf a weapon it all becomes about the weapon. That makes any claim of skills seem false. Either you are good at working with what you're given in the game (skilled) or it's all about the weapon and it's power. Trion looking at and switching up balances when they see that one build and one weapon are "overused" might actually force "skilled" players to improve their skills using other weapons. As it stands PvP had become a place for some one trick ponies and I've no doubt it will always be so that some weapons are relied upon more than others, but just what those weapons are will change as Trion sees fit. I kind of like that, even though my security blanket, my SAW may be less powerful. I'm ok with that.

In PvE, sure it is in many ways wrong to tie it so to PvP, which seems to be what's happening. But I can adjust and so can anyone. That's the true test of skill. I can kill Viscera with a bolt sniper rifle. I can do it with an infector or a BMG or a Disruptor. And it's not because of the weapon but because I can out-think them. Yeah, I die a lot and no I'm not saying I'm better than other people. I'm saying I'm not the best at this game and yet I can still do difficult things with less powerful weapons. A weaker SAW ain't no big thing.


I don't think it serves anyone or this game at all for some level 80 player to be constantly chasing after an orange syphon assassin SAW and getting one and finding it can't "win" the game for him/her. Far better if that player is making adequate use of all the weapons s/he has at hand and earns or finds along the way.

[Shogo_Yahagi]

The problem is that the nerfs never stop. There will always be a weapon that provides some advantage, and more people will want to use that one because it provides an advantage. When they nerf that, people will switch to some other weapon that provides slightly less advantage. Then that weapon will become the focus of nerfing. We've already seen this process in action. Think of all the weapons that have been nerfed since launch (and how many were already garbage at launch). Now, how many can you think of that have been buffed? Are there any that have been made really useful? What you end up with is a continuous downward spiral of damage output.

If diversity in loadouts is your goal, you can either attain it by making all weapons equally bad, or you can attain it by giving weapons different distinct advantages to encourage their use. Unfortunately, the first seems to be Trion's approach. This casts serious doubt on their stated goal of making better items available to higher-level players. All of their actions thus far have been to eliminate any items that provide an advantage and to shift benefits away from higher-level players.

[IGears]

Attached are two screenshots of arkfalls that I just completed. The first one was a minor red crystal arkfall. I did my absolute best to hit everything *BUT* the crystals. So unless you are saying I did that much damage on accident....

The next screenshot was from a Scrapper Major Arkfall. Once again, I went out of my way to not hit ANYTHING of either the Arkfall Cores, the Arms, or the Progenitor. So again, unless you are saying I really, really misaimed and did that much damage to the boss or crystals....

Again, both of these had objectives to hit the Core or the Scrapper Cores, I went out of my way to avoid hitting them. If you would like to know what I focused on, I'd be happy to tell you.

Again, I went out of my way to not touch the boss, crystals, or cores.

Feel free to try to replicate, go into an arkfall and shoot everything but the arkfall. Also, as I asked before, please feel free to account for the blue arkfalls and how their damages are calculated (you can't attack the core, those are just waves).

I hope you know that the enemies scale depending on how many people are at an arkfall... so it may take longer to kill enemies at one arkfall than at another one with less people..

[Skullsuku]

I'm w/t him on this u already killed the shotguns, now u r going to ruin this also.

[KTCAOP]

I hope you know that the enemies scale depending on how many people are at an arkfall... so it may take longer to kill enemies at one arkfall than at another one with less people..

I mentioned that earlier =).

You are not wrong that crystals and bosses count for the scoreboard, but you are mistaken in saying that is the only thing that matters. Furthermore, there is the scaling factor as well. If you are by yourself at an Arkfall, things have less HP so you might've been able to kill more things, or maybe you just focused on skitterlings as I said earlier, or maybe on the converse the other person just had a bunch more people with him or, or, or.

The argument against me was that the only damage that mattered at the Arkfalls were damage done to the crystal or to the boss.

[Vinylz]

The saw nerf, I knew it was coming after I used it and compared to other ar, lmg and smg. I just couldn't find a another gun to dish out damage that awesome. As for the other LMG they freaking blows, rockers was okay, but still bad. In my opinion all LMG should just be automatic as they are for suppressing fire (Disruptor was awesome at this), how? just make them have different recoil patterns or bloom patterns, falloff damage etc...... Just a suggestion. A weapon with high damage alright, but better control that ridiculous recoil and bloom because your gun is gonna fly!!!!

[Telemachus]

Usain Bolt runs too fast ... Trion's solution... would be to break his legs... to bring him inline with the other runners.


Then by the next olympics with trions logic ... all runners would be on clutches. It's even then, only fair horizonal progression.

Could just train the other runners, strenghten them, maybe up to his speed ?