Upcoming Balance Changes

[KodiakDuck]

soo the frc heavy shotgun is still trash since nothing is really being changed. It's still doing the same damage as a frc shotgun per trigger pull but now with the potential to do less if a few pellets miss with a slower fire rate.

Just because all the other LMGs are garbage doesn't mean the SAW should suffer. That's like punishing the smart kid in a class for getting an A when the rest of the class failed. Buff the other LMGs so that they are more attractive to use. Nerfing is never the answer.

The other changes I'm ok with or like.

[Midget]

If we are basing the game on any sort of reality, then the saw should be a monster weapon. A light machinegun by definition is a stronger more sustained representation to its Assault rifle counterpart, why else would someone choose a 80 pound weapon over a 15 pound weapon when walking into battle. It has historically been stronger and more sustained yet much less accurate, which the saw represents in the game.

I don't know what they were trying to say when they came up with the base damage and crit for the Thunder though. The thunder should have something like a base 260 damage with a base 2.1 or 2.2 crit therefore making better shots count on a much more accurate gun.

The rocker and the disruptor are just strange to me, why you would want burst fire on an LMG is beyond me....... sorry lost my train of thought.

the rocker should have a base of 500+ while the rest of the stats stay the same.

The disruptor should have a base damage of 200x3 instead of its present 116x3 then they should triple the base crit just because you will be lucky to hit it once out of the 9 shots per 3 round burst.

My thought with these changes is that many people choose to use a VBI Assault instead of the other LMG choices that are available. Why is that? It is because they are underpowered and need a buff, sorry a big BUFF!!!!! And if the numbers where anywhere near these all LMGs would be well balanced.

almost any weapon in this game can be effective if it has good rolls and you use atleast one good thought when picking your power/perk loadout!!!

[Samhael]

At what point were they unaware of the math on weapons? Players will find the best dps version of each gun and use that weapon over others. We will move on to the next top dps...which will get nerfed. I'm getting tired of games that nerf player choices as rewards for finding the optimal choices. Golf clap to the devs.

[Indra Echo]

I'm going to say that I understand always considering re-adjusting balance but balance shouldn't be to make all guns so similar that people feel they have no real choice. And balance does also mean that a skilled player can use any weapon and achieve good results. It shouldn't mean that a poor player can use a weapon and from the start rule the game. Any weapon in the game should be a viable way to assault particular enemies effectively. And there just should not be a "one weapon fits all" mentality-one weapon that works no matter the situation (foes) or abilities of the player. As one poster stated some of what they could look at to adjust balance is the crit damage weapons do, but the real problem is some weapons need to be buffed, not nerfed.

SAWs don't need to have base damage nerfed. There merely needed perhaps if anything a re-assessment of the bonus bumps and things like that. The problem comes into play when you have a SAW that can get double damage bonuses as well as the Assassin synergy. Every weapon just needs more clearly to have real downsides along with the upsides of power/mag size/shooting speed, and so on. SAWs have a clear vulnerability in reload speed but that can be offset with perks. It also is a slow shooter with considerable inherent recoil. But it's shooting speed can be temporarily buffed as well.

I'd rather see weapons being more in line with real world mechanics rather than changing what is true about their nature. And I'd rather have their effectiveness be more dependent upon what type of enemy they are being used against.

Larger weapons should from the start have been heavier. Just as the mini-gun used in emergencies and hot shots is. If I'm running with a pistol then I should be able to run. If I'm running with a rocket launcher equipped, then I should need the run and gun perk to actually be able to run ALMOST as fast as if I'm carrying a SAW. And carrying a SAW should make me slower than carrying a pistol. It should also be faster to aim and shoot a pistol than a SAW and RL. It isn't truly the weapons alone that are off; it's the mechanics. SAWs should be able to tear things apart but with less accurate aim than some other guns. So increased accuracy shouldn't bring them in line with burst fire ARs-they should still be less accurate. They do already seem in PvE to have a discernable drop off-in shooting at sniping range they don't tend to hit every time except unless you have the right EGO picked and the right perks,mods, and synergy.

The power of the SAW is not the problem. It's the fact that Trion has really not assessed the impact of all of the buffs available for each weapon - they have not considered what each weapon CAN BECOME.

In effect, you could arm people with toxic teddy bears that they have to throw at a foe and with the right buffs (perks, mods, bonuses, synergy) they could be more deadly than shooting them with a Disruptor. That's at the core of the problem.

We've all come to realize that Infectors are Trion's "pet weapons"-the ones they want to show as setting this game apart from others. And that's fine. They're different. But they also bear out another problem. Where other weapons do have some over-powering abilities that can be buffed to be better, one specific Infector starts off needing no buffs to be over-powered in numerous ways with virtually no down sides to it.

The Immunizer would be fine if it had downsides like the other infectors do. Again, it's about each weapon in the game being limited to some over-powered (normal power) effects and having real vulnerabilities when in use.

The Immunizer has sniper range. It does not require good aim. It can hit someone in cloak even when the shooter cannot see the cloaked person. It has homing ability. In fact, all it takes is for the shooter to hit a target maybe one or two times and then it's possible to keep shooting that target in cover, inside a building, or anywhere, and hit repeatedly. It causes blindness. It has tick (bug) damage. Even rolling does not fully stop this damage or easily remove the larva sac from your head. It spawns bugs for damage to nearby targets. And even "semi-auto" merely means a slight interruption in rapid fire shooting.

Anyone that denies it has too many over-powered features is someone that doesn't really want to understand all this or that paid 750k scrip for the one they use in PvP. The Immunizer is the ultimate stealth weapon with zero vulnerabilities for the user unless they use it up close-but that isn't how it's used. And I don't think distance is the problem. It should be an anti-sniper gun but it should also require some aiming. It shouldn't be able to ALWAYS blind a target. And it shouldn't be able to hit targets when they run for cover or hide-the homing thing is ridiculous. But I'm not saying they should take away all of its powerful characteristics. I just think some things need to be re-assessed. At the very least a player shouldn't be able to just shoot it at no one in particular and hit them and then use the homing capability to keep shooting for the kill.

The reality of what weapons (that are real) can do in the real world should be considered. Shotguns should be powerful at close range with significant drop off and buffs should help that range but not in a ridiculous way. Rocket Launchers should be the most powerful weapons in the game-they are rockets for pete's sake. But they should be slow to aim, slow to reload, heavy to carry.

Pistols pretty much do make sense now. Magnums should be powerful and have range, but should also have recoil and be less accurate. The faster they fire, the more the recoil.

The problem is the other LMGs are just garbage. In real life LMGs are not weak but they are just not so accurate and due to high rate of fire, they are prone to even less accuracy because of recoil. The SAW should be more accurate because the weight of the gun should in some way help to minimize recoil. So the other LMGs should be able to shoot faster with less recoil effect.

What's wrong isn't that a base SAW can do 400+ damage, but that some other base LMGs or ARs can only do 40. And they may have incredibly small mags. If that's the reason for nerfing the SAW then what Trion really should do is consider creating better base stats for the weaker weapons. They have no over-powered effects that would make them desirable.


And Trion really has to separate PvP and PvE usage for all weapons. One of the things that really could help is to have PvP with more variety, including classes of players so that people have to adjust their loadouts for different enemies. As it is all players in the game are really just the same vanilla version with some variation-this is especially obvious in PvP with variety only related to perks and somewhat to shields. Different races, different classes, and so on could require different loadouts instead of just constantly nerfing whatever weapon is the most used right now.

[Reverend Blood]

Awesome way to make LMGs completely useless.

I have more to say, but I'm just going to keep it simple: just say no to nerfs.

[b0thbarrel5]

Just my 2 pennies, but looking at the lmg class as a whole, the SAWS damage was it's strong point. All other LMG's out-perform it as far as fire rate by @ least 1.9, so my question here is--why the nerf? Honestly, if you guys are just going to keep nerfing weapons, eventually there will be no chase weapons at all, OR everything will eventually go back to square one just with a lower damage output. My reason for saying no nerf on the saw is needed is the following example: THUNDER- high r.o.f., low(er) end on the damage, but strong point is a tightening of the bloom over shots fired. ROCKER- highest r.o.f. of all lmg's (although a burst,which i do not mind), middle of the road damage, and decent accuracy. SAW- lowest r.o.f. amongst all lmg's, highest damage, but a bloom that makes it a weapon better shot in long(er) bursts. DISRUPTOR- absolute trash. I have tried my behind off to like this gun, but until it receives some sort of buff the legendary will continue to collect dust in my inventory. The point I am making here is simple- PLEASE do not nerf the saw, but rather just bring the lower end of the LMG spectrum (disruptor) up to snuff. I personally think you would have a much warmer welcome from the majority of the player base instead of a two hundred twenty-two page thread that is mostly comments as to why you should not do this to one gun. Thank you for your time.

[Aerion]

so in other words ,shotguns will become even more OP than most weapons ..more than they already are , in terms of nano effects proc rate because they wont be afected by the 1.5 cool down since they shot several pellets at the same time so the next time you pull the trigger it will still proc again...still one shot killing most ppl ,lowbies or ppl without def perks...it should be a chance to proc nano effects once per trigger pull and not per pellet..

You are either new to the game or severely uninformed. Allow me to enlighten you.

The "Buckshot" patch "fixed" shotguns by nerfing most of them to the ground, and included one extremely flawed "fix" that apparently "fixed" a "bug" with each projectile (pellet) having a separate nano proc chance.

This "fix" had the nice little side effect of making every weapon that shoots multiple projectiles besides shotguns (VOT Blast Rifle, VOT Disruptor) become mostly useless. The Blast Rifle was niche, a gimmick weapon relying on proc-chance for it's damage, well it became 66% less useful. Still, it was fast enough to do some damage and still proc... not anymore.

TL;DR: it's been a proc chance per bullet used (numeric value shown on-screen, value alteration by -1) for ages, you uninformed person.

[Alexri]

Next is nerf the wolfhounds because all other pistols are crap

Pistols is the weapon type with least crap weapons. Northstar Flare, Wolfhound, Wolverine, and VBI TACC Autopistols are all extremely usable weapons.

[Zugo]

The 1.5 nano cool down is excessive. This change negates the usefulness of the SMG line entirely.

Currently the SMG class of weaponry offers high rate of fire, low dps, and frequent nano effect proc rates. If you add a 1.5 sec. cooldown to a line of guns that empty a clip in 3-5 seconds you remove the guns usefulness from the game.
Please reconsider the 1.5 second nano cool down.

[marshy]

Pistols is the weapon type with least crap weapons. Northstar Flare, Wolfhound, Wolverine, and VBI TACC Autopistols are all extremely usable weapons.

All anyone uses in that class is the wolfhound because its the best, making all other pistols crap, So by trions logic it's OP and needs a nerf to bring it in line with other pistols