The outcry justifies the nerf

[GiantInMaine]

Yeah when no one wants something to happen that's a great justification to do it. Just what every company should do to their customers.

[IAMVILELENT]

Then way am I always top of the arkfalls and scrappers and co-ops with my SAW?

Because people like shooting other guns and don't really give a sh*t about who's doing the most damage as long as the job gets done. If they wanted to see who's d*ck was bigger they'd say to you "HEY LETS SEE WHO DOES THE MOST DMG DURING THIS EVENT!!! *waves junk around frantically*" Then you'd be wondering why someone else's LMG does more dmg then yours, you probably freak out when your not top damage. You search the player and check gear to see wtf they were using.

I don't get PVE whiners, who the hell cares if something is strong? Like does it bother you THAT much someone does better then you in PVE? There are a ton of weak guns and no one crys for them to be buffed. The second something everyone likes is up for a nerf, your all "Oh yeah yeah that needed a nerf, it was wayyyy too OP."

[Mercy Killing]

All I have to say is...please don't nerf my SAW.

If a "rebalancing" is in order, perhaps look at the lower performing guns and not the one that performs well?

[janzig]

O_o It takes you 4 to 5 seconds to empty the Heavy Carbine's 20-round magazine? That may be the best rate of fire you can manage, but it's not the best rate of fire I can...

*blinks and looks around for nerf-happy devs*

...errrr, I mean yes, heavy carbines are awful. Please, please buff them.

Sorry to reveal your secret, but lets compare the SAW to the H.A. Carbine. Granted my AR is purple vs a blue SAW, and the crit bonus can be discounted, but it out performs the SAW in most categories. It does more base damage and is way more accurate. The drawback is it is semi-auto, while the SAW bucks like a wild bronco. Both have advantages and disadvantages.

SAW2.jpg

Lets also compare the SAW with a standard AR. SAW has more base damage and mag size, but the AR wins in every other category. (ignore crit dif as that is weapon bonus). The SAW needs the higher damage as that is "what makes it a SAW!"

SAW1.jpg

To me, these weapons look balanced. People use the SAW because they like it- the mag size, the BFG feeling of the SAW. That does not mean its totally OP. I hope trion is actually looking at numbers here, but if you reduce the damage of the SAW to AR levels, you are taking away the only thing it has going for it besides mag size. It would turn the gun into a piss-poor AR with a large mag. Might as wll just use an AR. IMHO.

EDIT: My LMG level is 20, AR is 16. This changes base damage slightly.

[Tekrunner]

You totally ignore crit multipliers Tekky!

Ever used a Wolfhound against Scrappers?

Yes, I ignored crits because my post was long enough. But including crit multipliers doesn't really change the conclusion. Several weapons have higher raw critical DPS than the SAW:

• Wolfhound: 9100
• Bull rush: 7200
• VOT Blaster: 6370
• FRC Heavy Assault Carbine: 5940
• EMC Magnum: 5344
• Frontier SAW: 4800

Again, a burst mod can increase that figure by 25% for the SAW. Among the rest, only the carbine can use a burst mod, and it doesn't get nearly as much benefit from it (it only lets the gun fire a little above its theoretical base fire rate). The blaster is not an easy weapon to get crits with, and the same thing goes for the bull rush, with its huge recoil.

Taking reloading into account:

• Wolfhound: 4608
• Frontier SAW: 3372
• VBI semi-auto sniper rifle: 2833
• VOT Bolter: 2806
• FRC Heavy Assault Carbine: 2795

So yes, the wolfhound is way above everything else (and this number can be greatly improved with a mag mod). But the SAW comes second, significantly above the rest. As Dracian said, a wolfhound requires very precise aiming, otherwise it is not such a great weapon. With a SAW you can hit pretty much any part of the body and still do great.

The only weapon that can sort of rival with the SAW is the FRC Heavy Assault Carbine. But while it is slightly better for spikes of damage, it clearly pales when it comes to sustained DPS. And again, sustained DPS is almost always what matters in PvE. The fact that it always has a scope is also more of a disadvantage than anything else (though that may change in the future when scope mods are changed).

[jandraelune]

One weapon being ignored that is OP in damage.

VOT Fragger This thing can mow through more things faster and more reliably then even a Wolfhound. Being a pellet shotgun that does not suffer from Either Falloff or spread it's brutal...all other shotguns require shoving the barrel in the mouth while this is just blast and splat from almost any range in the close-mid. Also Shotguns have I think the largest ammo pool vs damage done, I have NEVER ran out of ammo in any fight before it was over even an Arkfall using 2 shotguns....but have with everything else.

Ground Pounder...if the target is ground based this thing rips it apart while you stay behind cover or running around. Monarchs are just 2 volley kills, only thing that slows this beast is Volge....but against Volge it's one of the best choices. Nothing beats the burst DPS, 13500 lowest over 3sec time. But this thing is artillery and is 100% useless vs something flying so at Arkfalls this thing si best at clearing trash but killing the Hellion, don't waste your ammo.

Something NEEDS buffing in a MAJOR way is Rocket Launchers, so little ammo and the damage done is comparable to GLs and other weapons =.= Why use an RL other then for Pursuit reasons.

Sniper Rifles...good vs everything but Volge, might as well be a baseball bat for the good it does, no crit = SR is just a VERY slow firing spit wad. Another thing that harms SRs is distance, too close and too many numbers, pull out another weapon better suited, but this is the case any where in anything.

Both ARs and LMGs in here due to accuracy and rate ammo is chowed through, they SUCK. The accurate ones lack DPS, the good DPS ones lack accuracy. Not one decent middle ground.

Sawed Off =.= REALLY, you need level 10 with this PoS. If not for the Courier, this thing would be an absolute nightmare to use, the WORST shotgun of all. You do more reliable and faster damage with a Sawed Off using as a club then a gun >< it has to be the worst of all weapons in DPS even being beat by the BMG.

[Colif]

Ever since i used a ground pounder, I have been waiting for a nerf to it too. It sticks out above the rest as far as i can tell, I have tried the others. I prefer to kill the Monarchs with style, not brute force, so i don't use it on them... its just too easy, they are simple enough already without blowing them up. Arkfalls come in more than 1 style, they aren't so bad on scrapper arkfalls as you can place explosives inside the flying boss, proabably not the best choice but it works.

Currently getting rocket launchers up above 5, its my lowest weapon skill so every vendor seems to have a never ending supply of rocket launchers for me. The fact they are buffing them means its not a complete waste of time.

Have to agree on sawn off, I only got them to 10 by using courier on inflicted emergencies.

[Tekrunner]

VOT Fragger

VOT fraggers have huge burst damage (which is why they're so popular in PvP), but they're slow to reload, which makes them not that great in PvE. They do suffer from falloff damage, just like other shotguns. I agree that it's the best pump shotgun by far though, great combination of DPS and precision.

Ground Pounder

The thing about ground pounders is that they penetrate armor, just like other cluster explosives. I've been expecting them to be nerfed for a while now, given how they trivialize hellbug warriors, monarchs, and raider tankers. But given the reaction to the SAW nerf, I don't see that happening unless Trion has some serious balls.
But besides armored ennemies, they're actually not that great. Big boomers will perform better on groups, and a great deal of other weapons will out-DPS them on single targets.

Sawed Off =.= REALLY, you need level 10 with this PoS. If not for the Courier, this thing would be an absolute nightmare to use, the WORST shotgun of all. You do more reliable and faster damage with a Sawed Off using as a club then a gun >< it has to be the worst of all weapons in DPS even being beat by the BMG.

If you think that they suck this much, you're using them wrong.

[drackiller]

Or do you feel the nerf is wrong because you just spent 1.5 mil on an orange SAW because it's the single most powerful weapon in a game that is obviously striving to be gear-neutral?

Nice post man, i like the way you think and i think that most of the feel bad about nerfing is because of THIS part of your post.

The problem is that the SAW ins`t over powered for it`s class, it`s an LMG. It has poor accuracy and long reloads to counter balance the steady spread of bullets, but other then that 404 DPS isn`t much. The Heavy Assault Rifle has that kind of damage and to balance that, that specific AR only clips 20 and is single shot...balance.
The problem isn`t the SAW, the problem are the other ones that are unbalanced.
LMG should be powerful, they have to be powerful.

But back in topic, nice post man.

[rev]

Because people like shooting other guns and don't really give a sh*t about who's doing the most damage as long as the job gets done. If they wanted to see who's d*ck was bigger they'd say to you "HEY LETS SEE WHO DOES THE MOST DMG DURING THIS EVENT!!! *waves junk around frantically*" Then you'd be wondering why someone else's LMG does more dmg then yours, you probably freak out when your not top damage. You search the player and check gear to see wtf they were using.

I don't get PVE whiners, who the hell cares if something is strong? Like does it bother you THAT much someone does better then you in PVE? There are a ton of weak guns and no one crys for them to be buffed. The second something everyone likes is up for a nerf, your all "Oh yeah yeah that needed a nerf, it was wayyyy too OP."

You don't know me....so stop being an arse. I do'nt freakout when I'm not top damage.....I was simply asking the question? Why you decided to make it personal it beyond me other than the fact your trolling. So bugger off now.