It dosnt matter how much we ask for real info

[dahanese]

Val - the workflow stuff isn't tenable or efficient in terms of development. We are going to be gathering feedback and wishlists from you, however. We've done this in the past but are taking a new look at things now.

[DaMaJaDiZ]

Accountability taken. We didn't do a good enough job before. I'm taking it on to change that.

I imagine that you has a head full of wtf to parse from the last couple of weeks. Even with the amount of raging that happens around here, I think that most of us are behind you.

[Valaska]

Val - the workflow stuff isn't tenable or efficient in terms of development. We are going to be gathering feedback and wishlists from you, however. We've done this in the past but are taking a new look at things now.

No taking the wishlists on the forums isn't good enough, its silly we have no idea how much of it is being taken to heart or considered seriously.

It is tenable, it just sounds like working with the community and actually putting some man hours into it is something you don't want to do. Make a -REAL- blog, not the one on the website, give us polling tools etc, a new website, allow us to influence the direction of this game and see directly what we are influencing and are not. Again, saying "we're listening to you on the forums" is what EVERY damn developer in the world says, every community representative EVER has said that empty, worthless line.

You know what, be different, put some effort into it. It is your job even, you have a master list don't you? Its not that hard to allow us access to this list and then to allow us to speak on and about it, again, allow us to influence this for the better and GROW the community instead of hemorrhaging more and more players.

[ralisti]

Accountability taken. We didn't do a good enough job before. I'm taking it on to change that.

What scares me is that there does not seem to be any root cause analysis (RCA) done when Trion drops the ball or someone sticks their foot in their mouth. I know where I work, if something goes wrong, an RCA is a must to try to ensure it does not happen again.

WHY was there not a good job done before? Was there a team member who dropped the ball? Did reports of players frustration levels rising on a daily basis get lost? WHY did it happen?

What is the solution to the problem? From the sheer number of posts from Community Management, it seems that the solution is to blitzkrieg players with meaningless drivel in hopes that, just by posting in the thread, the problems all magically go away.

Sure you say that things are changing, but we have heard that for the last 4 months, and the few things that changed were, for the most part, not making things better.

So now, instead of getting the few and far in between posts from Community Managers being vague and not saying anything with content, we have a lot of posts from Community Management being vague and not saying anything with content. It is addressing the symptom, not that cause. Which as people at Trion should know by now does not work.

You say you are going 'to change that' but tell me what you are doing that Sledge did not...other them post more often.

[Billy Guile]

in defense of Dahanese:

in the military we have these cute forms called, "non-disclosure agreements"

in the civilian world, they do the same frakkin thing.

you cannot get every single tidbit of info you want on a whim because there is a closet full of monkeys called "lawyers" that are waiting to do their dirty little deeds. 22 hours into a 24 hour duty shift, my creative processes really begin to kick in.

[Iceberg]

in defense of Dahanese:

in the military we have these cute forms called, "non-disclosure agreements"

in the civilian world, they do the same frakkin thing.

you cannot get every single tidbit of info you want on a whim because there is a closet full of monkeys called "lawyers" that are waiting to do their dirty little deeds. 22 hours into a 24 hour duty shift, my creative processes really begin to kick in.

I'm glad someone gets it.

[maxpontiac]

Accountability taken. We didn't do a good enough job before. I'm taking it on to change that.

That is good enough for me and I appreciate you stating this and as a result, I will hold you accountable. I am not the type of person to post everyday and complain or handle myself in an aggressive manner to the staff and other members. With that said, I will simple quit playing the game and move on to some other console MMO style experiences when they arrive.

I am a season pass holder and while I do not regret my purchase, I do have some doubts over it and I am eagerly awaiting the first batch of DLC since I am about one week from unlocking a Platinum Trophy. Both my sons have held off on the season pass as they decided to take each DLC on a case by case basis and of course, they will see how happy I am with it and if it is worth their PSN money. Dad doesn't purchase everything for them after all.

Now although I am a long time lurker of these forums, I have been coming here to read quite frequently since the Defiance game launched. As I hinted at before, there are three copies of Defiance in my house (for myself and my teenagers) and we enjoy this game quite a bit. Now while this game has some rough spots and issues that each of us are disappointed with, it is a game that all of us can play together for the most part. To stray off topic in a wish list sort of way, our biggest issue is that the three of us want to do everything together. Address this, and we will be very happy.

Additionally, we all watch the TV show together, so this game has become a focal point in our father/son(s) experiences.

As I wrap up my first post and put a bow on it, I would like to stress to you personally that certain members in this forum do not represent any of us here in my household. I respect their personal complaints, but that is as far as it goes.

Have a great day.

[Valaska]

in defense of Dahanese:

in the military we have these cute forms called, "non-disclosure agreements"

in the civilian world, they do the same frakkin thing.

you cannot get every single tidbit of info you want on a whim because there is a closet full of monkeys called "lawyers" that are waiting to do their dirty little deeds. 22 hours into a 24 hour duty shift, my creative processes really begin to kick in.

Yes but these aren't matters of security, Trion writes its own NDA, its not like they are establishing a FOB in a demilitarized zone! Or putting a submarine through NDC to check up tabs etc.

Other video game companies do exactly what I said, typically its to great effect and they hold onto their community members after the initial bleed off period (3 months for MMORPG's typically.)

[ralisti]

in defense of Dahanese:

in the military we have these cute forms called, "non-disclosure agreements"

in the civilian world, they do the same frakkin thing.

you cannot get every single tidbit of info you want on a whim because there is a closet full of monkeys called "lawyers" that are waiting to do their dirty little deeds. 22 hours into a 24 hour duty shift, my creative processes really begin to kick in.

I understand NDAs better then I care too. My issue is not with Dahanese, but the company Dahanese represents. I have no doubt the company is keeping people on a tight leash, especially with Turretgate, but continued communication as it has been the last 4 months is not going to make the problem go away. If anything, it will exacerbate the problem as it, even in just appearance, seems that all that has changed is that we are getting more of nothing.

Even if things are changing, and I hope they are, unless people actually see change they will continue to leave the game with a bad taste in their mouth, and bad advertising on their lips.

[Billy Guile]

Yes but these aren't matters of security, Trion writes its own NDA, its not like they are establishing a FOB in a demilitarized zone! Or putting a submarine through NDC to check up tabs etc.

Other video game companies do exactly what I said, typically its to great effect and they hold onto their community members after the initial bleed off period (3 months for MMORPG's typically.)

literally, you are correct. they are most certainly not setting up a FOB(coincidentally, providing security for that exact process is something i've done before ^_^). you compare other companies from previous experience, with your specific request. i think the next logical question for Trion would be, do they have the personnel to support the request? Or are they already pulling double duty? I may be wrong, but I think the largest issue they have is a lack of workforce to handle the load. It isn't bad, it is just the way it is. I know next to nothing about running a company. But I do know how to run a tank platoon. And sometimes, I have to tell the big boss, "hey, I understand the intent, and we can meet it. However, I need to adjust the timeline in order to do so." I then present how I can shift personnel, duties, required taskings, optional taskings, etc. I make this guess on the basis that prior to Sledgehammer leaving, it was between him and (cannotremembername) that seemed to handle most of the forum traffic. Once again, correct me if I'm wrong, but Dahanese is the lead for the forums. She is now headlining the forums with a lot of feedback. This is great, as it shows there is a presence that is able to correct the deficiencies. However, even the fighting General is needed to be a few steps to the rear of the frontline troops in order to successfully command and control the fight. Being that she is essentially "in the foxhole", is where I draw my conclusion.

Obviously the margin of error for that conclusion is high, and I no doubt expect to be wholly corrected by Dahanese. Right or wrong, I believe that the efforts of the past few days are an earnest movement towards fixing the stagnation that seemed present for quite a while. However, being a completely open book to the consumer is like me giving the 12 digit grid to my flanking section of tanks in an L shaped ambush. You just don't let those things out until the time to attack occurs.

To further draw the comparison: Blizzard = Clark, Trion = Fredenhall, Perfect World = Patton. All the same level of leadership(game developing company), with different methods of execution(style of game), in different theatres of conflict. Fighting for the same group(the players), but trying to be ahead of one another.

I just got off duty, so forgive me if I did not express my intent with clarity.