What about us Mac users?

[slverface]

This was an old thread, but with the recent announcement of Defiance moving to "free play" on PC's in June I thought it was appropriate to revisit.

Mac's are for people who need a basic and simple OS, windows is for people who wan't anything and everything.

Uhhh - Wrong.

I've used both for decades (I started on a DEC PDP-11;first "PC" was a TI9-4; got one of the first IBM PC clones made, when Bill Gates used to visit the Orange County Computer Club).

I was a die-hard, "Macs are for wimps" PC/Windows-only guy for years until I was *given* a fairly new iMac by a neighbor to use while he was out of the country. And after a month I sold my Windows machine and never looked back.

Mac users have ...except for games...most of the same software as Windows users EXCEPT utilities and scores of virus protection systems. Why? Because Macs don't NEED the same kind of virus protection. In over 20 years, the total count of Mac viruses is about 50 (all prior to Mac OS X). There are thousands for Windows.

And in OS X the total virus count is ZERO. A few trojans, but extremely rare and primarily in the developer circles - or among those using Boot Camp (a POS) or one of the other Windows emulators (which, by the way, are extremely slow and unsuitable for Windows game use. Unless you like "Pong".)

So you Windows folks get to spend money on bloated, drive hogging software such as antivirus protection and scads of utilities to keep your systems in order (usually to no avail - the blue screen of death is a FAR more common Windows occurrence than in OS X, and when you're rebooting if a piece of commercial software locks up on you we simply "force close" the offender - and on Macs it's freeware and shareware, not commercial stuff, which in my experience (running networks and fixing problems) is far more problem-free on Macs (even Office, probably THE most troublesome piece of OS X software ever written, has less problems on a Mac that a Windows system (that's not opinion - it's fact).

Yes, you can buy a cheap Windows machine for less money than a Mac - but Macs have a more robust build (covered in computer publications), a FAR lower failure rate (again, the result of published, well-known studies), and have a longer life cycle (meaning that in he long run a Mac is actually CHEAPER over a 6 to 10-year ownership period).

A couple more goodies - Macs come stock with fully-functional Office-compatible Word Processing, spreadsheet and desktop publishing software PLUS photo processing software, a completely functional recording studio and several other things Windows users HAVE to buy to make the computer a useful tool - and once you add all ThOSE costs the Mac is even less expensive.

And the kicker - what software you DO buy for the Mac can normally be loaded on at least 4 or 5 machines, if not more. Windows software publishers HAVE started opening up a "2 copy" (one desktop, one laptop) licensing program, but not commonly "buy once for the whole family".

And, of course, when it comes to professional studio recording and graphics systems it's not even close. Yes, Protools in now available for Windows - but not all the plugins, which are essential. And Logic, the other common Professional studio software, is Mac-only. Sony Acid, the most popular professional Windows studio site, has a tiny market share.

The Mac market keeps growing with the compatibility & cross/platform functions between Desktop, laptop, tablet and cell phone systems, all of which run some version of the same thing when it comes to basic day-to-day software - including "cloud" updates of all of the above when a change is made on one (and invisible, low overhead backup as well).

I understand Windows use in the business environment - it's been the most prevalent system for decades, and changing platforms is a major undertaking. But with the ability to run Windows on Macs via several add-ons (Boot Camp being the worst of the lot)there's a paradigm shift in process, and Apple has been gaining market share steadily as accounting departments have analyzed immediate "ready for business/fully loaded" hardware/software costs AND long-term lifecycle costs.

Macs simply cost less to operate, are just as powerful, have zero virus problems, far fewer mechanical defects, and are far easier to run and maintain for the end user. And when training costs/operating costs/down time are factored in that's where you see companies shifting to Macs.

So it's going to make sense for game vendors to wake up and smell the coffee. The "PC Gamer" is losing his/her Windows PC for other reasons, and is either being forcibly or willingly shifted to a Mac.

I don't play "computer games" - I am an XBox 360 guy. But give me Defiance and other games I regularly play on a Mac and that's where I'll spend most of my time.

I do find it interesting how Windows users have shifted - they used to be in a position of power and "dismissed" Macs as "soccer mom" computers. Mac users had to defend themselves.

But the shift is huge - Mac users are (even with a smaller market share) in the driver's seat, and Windows users are seen as computer geeks who are constantly having to be on the defensive. I predict one of two more worldwide/mass virus outbreaks and there will be an exodus.

And no, I don't work for nor am I related to anyone who works for a computer or software manufacturer. I'm just a common user...albeit one who has worked on both network development and hardware troubleshooting/repair...who has, in the last 5 years, undergone a complete shift from Windows to Macs - simply by being loaned one and deciding to try it for at least a week. In 7 days of steady use I was done with Windows except for the stray program I needed to grab data from to shift it to Mac-ready.

Hopefully the game companies will start shifting soon - anything written for a Windows platform should be reasonably easy to port since Intel processors are a commonality. And nothing against Windows users - I just think they should be ready to shift or they'll find themselves swimming upstream...

[Murzin]

Portabella:

here is a few things you need to keep in mind.

keyboard: 1999
main mouse: 1999
speakers: 1999
2nd mouse: 2004
monitor: 2009
computer case: 2005
PSU: 2011 ( the one i bought in 2005 was damaged while driving 12 hours in my car )
HDs: 2004, 2005, 2006, 2010, 2011, 2013, 2014 ( most of them are unplugged as they are holding archival data )
cpu: 2008
mobo: 2008
ram: 2012 ( upgraded my ram from 8gb to 16gb )
gpu: 2013 ( my old 8800 GTX overheated so bought a cheapie $120 640, will upgrade when 680s drop in price )

try doing that with a mac.

the simple fact is you wont see a lot of users in your typical best buy/circuit city/wal-mart/geek squad/ etc stores. how PCs usually go, when a component fails, you replace it with a newer one. you generally dont see people buying whole PC computers from a local store very frequently for windows.

or if you do, its the old grandmas or grandpas who dont already have one, or every few years just buy these prebuilt computers.

and for the people at work, we are IT specialists, so we know about computers and technology. even the "non-IT" people at work will go into a mom+pop store and have them build a computer given the parts list we provide for them for their home use. not a pre-built store. and for laptops? those are usually ordered from an online vendor and then shipped. not your brick and mortar store.

what you are doing is complaining about games sales for PCs dropping drastically since 2005 in stores, and then forgetting that places like newegg/amazon sell boxes and do not report, or digital release platforms like steam and even the game producers offering online sale option.

hint: PC Game sales are very large, they just slowed down a lot in the brick and mortar retail locations and moved to mail services or digital distribution.


another thing. i hate the business practices of wal-mart. they are very destructive to the american economy. people are just too stupid to see the myriad of reasons why. but a big one is they pay very low wages, and over 75% of their sales volume in any given year is from imported goods.

as of right now, it is may 3rd. so far this year i have stepped into a wal-mart 2 times, and each time it was to buy DVD/Blu-Rays. thats it. i have spent less than $100 at wal-mart this year.

why did i bring up wal-mart? because i really hate them.

to a lesser degree i hate apple. but you could assume i hate apple more as i have spent $0 on apple products since at least 2002-2003. the only reason i use iTunes is that i buy multi-format blu-ray movies/tv shows. i really like the versions with the digital copies. i prefer to redeem my digital copies on amazon instant video. next up is a ultra-violet service. dead last option? iTunes. so far i have 2 titles in my iTunes collection that i was not able to use any other redemption service with.

this is over their long history of using proprietary hardware/standards, and it still continues to this day. they have gotten slightly better over the years.

and apple security? its a joke. apple is the epitome of "security by obscurity" which is not security. and here is another thing. apple products are fully endorsed and recommended by the NSA. the iphone 1 they had a 5% failure to hack and gain root access within 15 minutes. ever since the iphone 1, they have had 100% success. android they have a better than 75% if wi-fi or bluetooth is turned on, less than 5% if they are turned off. windows gets a lot more complicated. firefox/internet explorer/safari, they are 100% to hack, opera 12.16 and previous is under 2%, after 12.16 they moved to the firefox backend which brought them back to 100%, and chrome is i think somewhere around 25% to hack. but there really is no need to hack a chrome browser computer because its google, and google gives everything to the NSA anyway.

and pro tip: safari = apple UI on mozilla back-end so safari = apples UI on top of firefox.

that NSA stuff was pretty interesting when it was discovered in the leaks by snowden.

oh, and those XP usage numbers, those will actually stop being the government, as the US government has to transition to windows 7 by 10/2014. so after 10/2014 any XP OS numbers will be pure home users. the UK government bought a support contract that allows them to use XP until april or may 2015.

TLR:

apple products suck, and their security is a joke.

[Synther]

I'm sure Mac users are too busy looking for jobs.

I LOL'd pretty hard at that. Hipsters are funny.

[Benaiah]

I doubt it comes to mac. Rift is the main game for Trion and it's not on Mac and that's their flagship game. I just don't see them crossing defiance over into the mac world before they would put Rift on it. BTW, Rift is a great game.

[slverface]

Yeah, I grasp the realities - if they haven't ported their flagship to OS X it's doubtful they'd port Defiance first. So I guess I'm still in the "pay to play" XBox Gold group.

My previous post was intended to provide a little more realistic view of the Mac world; Windows-only users with little Mac experience tend to dismiss Macs as "soccer mom" and music platform systems only - I know because I *was* exactly like that! I thought they were a sort of "training wheels" computer for people who don't really want to use computers. Until I got my second one, actually (my first was one of the early little B/W integrated monitor boxes, and I was NOT impressed. It was the "bubble" iMac that changed my mind. The market has also shifted even more in an Apple direction since this thread was started.

I also wanted to clear up the misconception (also something I wholeheartedly believed several years ago) regarding bottom-line cost of a fully-loaded (i.e. with "real" software) machine. That's where Windows-only users just don't "get it" (I certainly didn't, until I bought my first new Mac & discovered I needed to buy software only if I wanted to upgrade my recording studio and image-processing software - because all the essentials were included, not just an operating system and horribly crippled desktop "Suite" i.e. the oft-deleted...for good reason...Microsoft Works).

I'm sure Windows gamers just think I'm trying to inject Valium into their Red Bull IV's, but nope - just laying out the real world.

(But I DO wish Apple could make iPad screens that didn't shatter if you look at 'em wrong - I've used up my 2-screen replacement extended warranty limit within the first 9 months on 3 iterations of iPads I've owned!)

[crazyged]

Arguments about Mac VS PC always make me smile.

It's like arguing Evolution VS Religion!

I cut my teeth on a Mac, way back when it had a massive 40mb drive (NOT a typo) and a black and white screen.

I worked on Macs for years (I have worked on every OS) and derided PCs as inferior....

...That is, until I bought my own PC...

I can build a PC that will out-perform any Mac, for a quarter of the price.

I LIKE the fact that its modular design can allow me to swap out parts at a moments notice, and that I can build a complete multimedia machine. My PC at home is hooked up to 3 screens, one being my LED TV. I play anything from games to bluray with surround on that lovely 46" screen.

I'm working in an office where I have the only PC amongst a sea of macs, and where they are constantly quitting out of Adobe apps with no warning, my little ol' PC just chugs along and laughs at massive graphics files... Even the Mac users here are constantly asking if they can get their systems replaced with PCs.

Steve Jobs spent way too much time demanding form over function - Macs may look pretty, but as far as I'm concerned, their bragging rights to being the ultimate graphics workstation are long gone...

Gimme my ugly desktop that actually does exactly what I want it to do anytime!

I will say that I enjoyed playing Marathon on the Mac though... One of the first dual wielder FPSs as far as I remember...

[AlyssaSammi]

Macs aren't for gaming.

[ConcreteSnake]

Duel-Boot!