What happened to the improved communication?

[ralisti]

I'm sorry you feel that way! Last week we put together quite a comprehensive poll and sent it to the devs. It will take a while to see the fruits of your labor in that poll, but we are actively reading and assessing what's said there, here, and from submissions within game among other sources.

Game development takes time but the suggestions and future wishes of the community have been sent to the team for them to work through.

The game has been out for close to 5 months. This does not take into consideration the development time, testing time, etc etc. How much time does the company need to fix issues, some of which have been around since testing at least?

The company kept pushing back the DLC to polish it. They put it on an alpha server to test it. Then they push it to production and bang, issues galore. So please tell me, how much time are the consumers (players) suppose to give the company to fix what Trion already collected the money for?

We are close to 5 months in to supposed gold code game, so please tell me, how much more time is needed?

[BJWyler]

Maybe a post with more than 'We are looking into it'. I know that in my line of work, if something as big as the DLC debacle occurred, it would mean an instant bridge call with all the major players from all the major teams looking into the issues. Within an hour, we are not just expected to know what the issue is (root cause analysis), but what needs to be done to fix it, how long it is going to take to fix it, the impact of the issue in both short and long term, etc etc etc...and we are expected to give the information to the client (you know, the person purchasing the product).

I can't get that from the electric company when the power goes out, nor from the cable company when my cable goes out, nor from the phone company when my line goes dead. I've never seen that level of detail come from any gaming company for any game that I have played - ever.

Out of curiosity - if your teams cannot identify the problem within the hour, nor estimate how long it will take to fix, because, you know, you don't know that the problem is yet, what do you do then? We have a similar policy in my line of work, but we don't give the clients details until we know them, and even then, it is an oversimplified version because, you know, clients don't often have the knowledge (or really care) about the technical details for it to make a difference.

The game has been out for close to 5 months. This does not take into consideration the development time, testing time, etc etc. How much time does the company need to fix issues, some of which have been around since testing at least?

I would ask if you wanted me to list all the games that I have played that have had bugs and issues, and continue to do so in the 30 years that I have been gaming - many of those games still showing bugs from that time. It's a fact of life in this technology. Get over it.

[Jayx]

We are close to 5 months in to supposed gold code game, so please tell me, how much more time is needed?

I can't bring to mind any large scale MMO that has been bug free within 4-5months

[LALLY]

I can't bring to mind any large scale MMO that has been bug free within 4-5months

no mmo is bug free, wow goes down every week to stable their servers, the reason people are annoyed is because obvious problems since launch don't seem to be being sorted out.

[ralisti]

I can't get that from the electric company when the power goes out, nor from the cable company when my cable goes out, nor from the phone company when my line goes dead. I've never seen that level of detail come from any gaming company for any game that I have played - ever.

Out of curiosity - if your teams cannot identify the problem within the hour, nor estimate how long it will take to fix, because, you know, you don't know that the problem is yet, what do you do then? We have a similar policy in my line of work, but we don't give the clients details until we know them, and even then, it is an oversimplified version because, you know, clients don't often have the knowledge (or really care) about the technical details for it to make a difference.



I would ask if you wanted me to list all the games that I have played that have had bugs and issues, and continue to do so in the 30 years that I have been gaming - many of those games still showing bugs from that time. It's a fact of life in this technology. Get over it.

If we can not identify the issue within 30 minutes, more people are tasked with finding the issue. At 45 minutes, more are tasked. If we hit an hour, we rollback any changes made within the last 24 hours and continue to investigate the changes that had been made in the last 24 hours to see if any of them are the issue, we continue to check hardware to make sure it is not an equipment malfunction, etc until we find what the issue is.

Also, the last time I called my cable company about connectivity issues, they had an automated message stating there was a fiber optic line cut in my area which could cause intermittent issues, that they were working on the issues, and gave an approximate time for repair. I have called the electric company and been told that there were lines down and that power would be restored within X hours. Companies that care divulge the information because they want to keep their clients.

Yes, almost all games released today have bugs, but Defiance not only has many of the bugs that it was told about in testing, bug new bugs it has created through poor testing, and the fixed bug list seems to shrink every patch as they break things they had actually fixed. Bugs which affect the foundation of the game limp around for months before being worked on (broken arkfalls anyone?), chat in an MMO (though not broken on release, it was solely lacking, and when they touch it to fix it, they basically totally break it), and the list could go on and on.

So while I do not expect perfection, I do expect a minimal level of competency when I purchase software, be it application or game. Trion has continually failed to meet a level of competency that even garage indie developers have.

[BJWyler]

no mmo is bug free, wow goes down every week to stable their servers, the reason people are annoyed is because obvious problems since launch don't seem to be being sorted out.

Which is, again, just like every other MMO out there - before and now. And again, there have been games I have been playing for the last 10-15 years that still have bugs ... that were there at launch ... and in fact were there and reported in the beta. It's long past time that gamers stopped being a whiny bunch of brats and start realizing that this a product of the advanced technology we demanded.

I am continually amazed that people will go into apoplectic fits over bugs that are common in today's software and games, or even what some dev named a new vehicle in an off the cuff comment for Gods' sake. There are a lot more important things to worry about not only in life, but in any game than the normal bugs or a bit of excited diatribe and hype.

In the end, it's time for people to make a grown up decision and either accept the problems for what they are, and understand that the people making the game are actually trying their best to fix the problems as quickly as possible, or come to the realization that perhaps their expectations are not met by the game and its time to move on to something that is more befitting said expectations.

[calinaspad]

Well, it seems that community owners read the posts from the users, then send a report to the dev team to improuve the game...

the problem is that many times people react on this or this other point they had problem with or what ever... the last patch killed the social dimenssion in the game. so...
i feel that the reaction of some users was because after typing enter.... they couldn't move anymore... than devs improved a way to protect the game play... in fact i suggest just to come back to the initial version of social part. for sure it was not perfect, but it was something... actualy we just have nothing... since one month we play with clan friends because, playing on our own way, we see they connect and then we are adviced about their presence. since the dlc, it's over.

for sure there is something to do with the chat box, but not in this way. this game need the social dimenssion witch is hiden actualy.

tho the team, this post just want to explain that many "ouin-ouin" are post by people, and those who are satify or try to be satisfy withe what they have will not post. some threads have to retain attention, and other just have to be seen superficialy. defiance chosed to have a social dimension. this point is an important point of the concept. before improving, dev team have to see what will be the improvement effects before changing the online client.

well scuse my poor english, it's not my mother language.

et n'oubliez pas... Calina, ses calins sont mortels.

[WARDUKE]

All I know is that when I got here in early July, the forum push was on the DLC, not on the bugs. People were all fed up with the DLC delay, because they'd already bought the season pass. It didn't matter to them that the company was going through some serious changes that effected it's day to day operations and I get that.

However, the push for the DLC came at a cost of addressing other game related issues and again effected the DLC development when it came to double/triple checking code.

The only version that really had any testing was the PC version and even with some of the issues that were brought up, nothing was game breaking and it would have pushed back the release of the DLC to nail it all down.

None of the versions were ever stress tested and there really is only one way to do so, release it.

I honestly think that now people who own the DLC are just upset because it's light and not flawless. Yet these were the same people lighting up the forums about getting the DLC released and to stop pushing it back.

Realistically, you just can't have it both ways.

Considering the rocky release that I read about months back in reviews, the loses of resources to remain in the black by the company and the angry push for the DLC release when I got here, I'd say they are doing ok. Not great, but ok.

[Rasczak]

I'm sorry you feel that way! Last week we put together quite a comprehensive poll and sent it to the devs. It will take a while to see the fruits of your labor in that poll, but we are actively reading and assessing what's said there, here, and from submissions within game among other sources.

Game development takes time but the suggestions and future wishes of the community have been sent to the team for them to work through.

Saying that game development takes time must be the Defiance mantra of the year, considering the abysmal 5 months since launch that have been absolutely squandered. Also keep in mind that saying it's being worked on, fixed, adjusted, et cetera, is nothing that hadn't been said for months on end by the very same people you are on here replacing.

Pretend some of us here aren't die hard Defiance game fans (though we aren't haters, either), and have even gone onto the lifeboats of being Trion die hard fans (as I used be via Rift). How much more time does this team really think it has with this segment of consumers? Better yet, how much lower can the game drop from its current $10 (or even $5 at Origin) to try to bring people in given the word of mouth that continues to spread about it?

Now ask everyone on your end how much time they think is left before it reaches the point of no return, which has happened to even bigger named and budgeted MMO games.

[Rakshasa]

Maybe a post with more than 'We are looking into it'.

Okay, such as what, specifically? They repeatedly let us know that they are aware of the issues. They repeatedly let us know that they are actively working to resolve the critical ones, not just 'looking into it'. The people whose job it is to work on this are spending their working hours doing that. They don't yet have a reliable timeframe to give, and they aren't making guesses at unreliable timeframes that would inevitably get them crucified as "liars". What exactly would you have them provide in addition to this, that would satisfy you? A livestream of the code base? Their time sheets? A webcam feed proving who is at their desks, and how fast they appear to be typing? I have to ask... given the unrelentingly negative and disdainful tone of most of your forum posts (for months, not just having to do with unreceived DLC), is there anything that would actually satisfy you in regards to this little video game?

I know that in my line of work, if something as big as the DLC debacle occurred, it would mean an instant bridge call with all the major players from all the major teams looking into the issues. Within an hour, we are not just expected to know what the issue is (root cause analysis), but what needs to be done to fix it, how long it is going to take to fix it, the impact of the issue in both short and long term, etc etc etc...and we are expected to give the information to the client (you know, the person purchasing the product).

It sounds to me as though your line of work is probably something a lot more critical than making a video game, and something that your clients have to depend on as an ongoing concern. At least I hope that's the case. In this case, my perspective is that I'm a customer who bought this company's video game. It's not a matter of life and death, not a health and safety issue, not enterprise- or mission-critical, and not a major ongoing investment. Neither my life nor livelihood is going to be significantly impacted by that company not working in crisis mode to give me something within the day or week, much less 'within the hour'. Having said that, today alone they've averaged a half dozen posts per business hour of direct communication with us right here, which I consider to be above and beyond what's necessary.

Sure Community Management is posting a lot, but they are not saying anything. This means that Trion does not want to admit they dropped the ball (again), they can not figure out the problem (questionable competency), or they do not respect the customer enough to give a direct and honest answer as to the problem and estimate time of resolution.

They're not saying anything? How are status updates and direct responses to questions and concerns that other players post "not saying anything"? I can understand it may not be what you want to hear, but you surely realize that doesn't disqualify it as "nothing".