DLC 2 on Friday's PAX livestream

[Indra Echo]

Nor is it even close to a content-driven DLC that SOE does for $10 for DC Universe Online every 4 months or so, either. Just wanted to point that out. Console-only games are not the only video games with DLCs and not expansions.

Even by DLC standards, their pay portion on the DLC-1 was atrocious. I'm not placing bets on DLC-2 triggering a greater buy impulse.

Unfortunately, like it or not, this game sold more copies on consoles. A lot of games have to be more console-focused (including the customer stuff is directed at) than PC-focused if only for survival, but also considering the direction of gaming. I'm not saying it's right. It is just what it is. Game devs have to follow the money.

DCUO benefits from being a part of a bigger conglomerate with name recognition. The game is subsidized by the cross promotion of already wildly successful enterprises, including movies, comics, individual character IPs, and years and years of fan support. Say the magic words, DC Universe or comics or Batman or what have you and the money is already there, even before the product is released. Add Sony (SOE) as the other force behind it and the money is instantly there. It's totally unfair to compare the two. But since DCUO is free to play, and has a huge base that will buy no matter what, it's far easier for them and more lucrative for them to create bigger content for less money. That "Fight for the Light" DLC doesn't look that amazingly huge. And click on the link and you can only get to a page for buying Station Cash and try to look at the DLC packs offered and the page is missing.
https://www.dcuniverseonline.com/dlc-packs.vm

Great experience. Perfect in every way.

I was speaking to what some other huge companies do-companies that sell millions of copies of their games on release day and that also have the money to create some exceptional DLC but that keep releasing the same stuff they already released for a premium.

It's much harder to create some things than it is others. I said maps are easy, content is not. Expansion packs generally cost more but some charge expansion pack fees for map packs.

That being said, it's up to the individual to decide it the content they get is enough or not. I'm one whose always wanted more story but that is expensive to make.

[Sanguinesun]

Unfortunately, like it or not, this game sold more copies on consoles. A lot of games have to be more console-focused (including the customer stuff is directed at) than PC-focused if only for survival, but also considering the direction of gaming. I'm not saying it's right. It is just what it is. Game devs have to follow the money.

DCUO benefits from being a part of a bigger conglomerate with name recognition. The game is subsidized by the cross promotion of already wildly successful enterprises, including movies, comics, individual character IPs, and years and years of fan support. Say the magic words, DC Universe or comics or Batman or what have you and the money is already there, even before the product is released. Add Sony (SOE) as the other force behind it and the money is instantly there. It's totally unfair to compare the two. But since DCUO is free to play, and has a huge base that will buy no matter what, it's far easier for them and more lucrative for them to create bigger content for less money. That "Fight for the Light" DLC doesn't look that amazingly huge. And click on the link and you can only get to a page for buying Station Cash and try to look at the DLC packs offered and the page is missing.
https://www.dcuniverseonline.com/dlc-packs.vm

Great experience. Perfect in every way.

I was speaking to what some other huge companies do-companies that sell millions of copies of their games on release day and that also have the money to create some exceptional DLC but that keep releasing the same stuff they already released for a premium.

It's much harder to create some things than it is others. I said maps are easy, content is not. Expansion packs generally cost more but some charge expansion pack fees for map packs.

That being said, it's up to the individual to decide it the content they get is enough or not. I'm one whose always wanted more story but that is expensive to make.

DCUO went through some significant changes too though due to lack of initial profitability. Chris Cao in that time frame got the boot for example. Fight For the Light back in 2011 was one of their very first expansions that intro'd the Lantern as a playable powerset and just a couple months after Cao left.

However, that first DLC introduced the lanterns as I said for both good and evil sides to play. They were very different in play and combat from the other powersets. Also a duo co-op and 3 alerts(mini raids if you will), and lantern themed armor were in said DLC. So to me, it was much more content than Defiance's DLC to be sure.

As for success wise, recent layoffs too at SOE affected the DCUO team, even though they were doing marginally better, so it is precarious to cite DCUO as a wildly successful thing. While the IP does have a draw, I would cite that IP alone does not a great game make as many of us are well aware.

[Indra Echo]

DCUO went through some significant changes too though due to lack of initial profitability. Chris Cao in that time frame got the boot for example. Fight For the Light back in 2011 was one of their very first expansions that intro'd the Lantern as a playable powerset and just a couple months after Cao left.

However, that first DLC introduced the lanterns as I said for both good and evil sides to play. They were very different in play and combat from the other powersets. Also a duo co-op and 3 alerts(mini raids if you will), and lantern themed armor were in said DLC. So to me, it was much more content than Defiance's DLC to be sure.

As for success wise, recent layoffs too at SOE affected the DCUO team, even though they were doing marginally better, so it is precarious to cite DCUO as a wildly successful thing. While the IP does have a draw, I would cite that IP alone does not a great game make as many of us are well aware.

Neither the person I quoted who referenced DCUO nor I stated it was wildly successful. It had a ready made base-if it wasn't that successful then I'd say they had to work to make it not be so. The cash for creation was there, the fan base was, so the odds were in their favor.

What we we specifically talking about was the depth of DLC. I can cite many examples of DLC that is more expensive than Defiance's, made by companies that have deeper products and much larger fan bases. Rasczak cited DCUO as having better DLC. My comment on this is that for huge games made by huge companies, with huge fan bases, the DLC should be deeper. And it shouldn't be as expensive as expansion packs. Often it's far worse or cheaper to make then the DLC in this game.

The main point of contention here though is any purchase is always subjective. My nephew likes the Matrix movies, so he bought the DVDs. I don't, so that was a waste of money. Some people liked Bioshock Infinite, so they bought the Season Pass for the DLC. I thought the game was ok, had zero replay value and so was $60 wasted for 5 hours of play-but that is wasted for me. If others like it, that's fine. I like Little Big Planet 1 and 2-some people feel it necessary to tell me that's a kiddie game-but that's their own perception of something they haven't tried. I like Killzone, have love hated CoD, love Uncharted, liked Halo, dislike Halo 4 now. Others have their own preferences. As it should be.

This is way off topic though. Some real contention here is already starting. I think rumor will instantly become fact, as so often is the case. Say something loud enough and often enough, and soon it's believed as fact no matter how erroneous.

[Pyth]

On Friday you'll be able to see it with your own eyes

Game changer huh?

[Krauser]

I'll be impressed if the arkfall interior is still co-op, or more than 4 player co-op, by the time of release. I remember when the highlight of DLC 1 was the 4 player co-op arenas.

I would also bet that the main way to get spikes would be lockboxes, and buying the DLC gets you one to start with. The drop rates will be awful and get ninja tweaked after everyone spends a week buying them and only has one or two to show for it. Just my guess after having played this game since day one.

And for everyone saying, "You don't lose your gun after you run out of ammo, do you?" in real life you use a grenade once and it's gone, you don't reload it. Not saying that's how it will work in the game, just saying it's not ridiculous to have them be a use-once-and-gone item in the name of realism.

I also feel the need to point out that there is no need to get excited over any of this. Trion has promised a lot of stuff over the life of this game, but almost nothing from their first statement makes it into the final product intact. We also don't have a date, which will almost certainly be pushed back. And being a PS3 player, I don't expect it to work for at least the first week when it does drop.

I'll probably come back to check this out after it's been out for a while since I have the season pass, but I doubt it'll be enough to get me to start playing outside of clan events again.

[ten4]

And for everyone saying, "You don't lose your gun after you run out of ammo, do you?" in real life you use a grenade once and it's gone, you don't reload it. Not saying that's how it will work in the game, just saying it's not ridiculous to have them be a use-once-and-gone item in the name of realism.

Problem is, there is no such thing as reality in defiance and putting "RL" mechanics in a game that has none of it to begin with seems strange. For example, we can jump from any height and not take a single point of damage. Grenade changes are not needed nor ask for.

[MattN]

Do you need to form a group for those instanced Arkfalls? Or a random pug group can just plant those spikes to summon then get inside?

The thing I like most so far are the ammo regen spike and healing stims. SMG eat ammo so quickly, it needs its own ammo pool, make it 1000 min.

[Synther]

Do you need to form a group for those instanced Arkfalls? Or a random pug group can just plant those spikes to summon then get inside?

The thing I like most so far are the ammo regen spike and healing stims. SMG eat ammo so quickly, it needs its own ammo pool, make it 1000 min.

Agreed! Technically, an SMG should be using pistol ammo, not come from the same pool as the assault rifle and LMG. There are exceptions to that rule, though....but it seems like they were going in a more general direction.

[Ashlocke]

Agreed! Technically, an SMG should be using pistol ammo, not come from the same pool as the assault rifle and LMG. There are exceptions to that rule, though....but it seems like they were going in a more general direction.

I'd much rather see ammo changed to actual ammo types rather than weapon types, for example, you would carry 5.56mm rounds, 9mm rounds, 7.62 NATO rounds, and Fusion-Pew-Pew rounds, etc, and you could have different SMGs in which one uses 9mm rounds, and another would use 5.56mm rounds, and yet another would use Fusion-Pew-Pew rounds and each would have different stats. Or if they don't want to use names of real ordnance they can just make up future tech names for them like they have for the game's weapons like VB-10mm rounds, or Soleptor-Fusion Tracers, etc.

A few months back a wrote I post with greater detail but I won't get into a huge post here. The above is enough to get the gist across.

On the surface it might seem like a pointless change but it could be the springboard to some really good future customization addition to the game. Think how awesome it would be to use different ammo types depending on your needs. Tracer rounds for more accuracy, hollow points, explosive rounds, chemical rounds, etc.

[Rasczak]

Unfortunately, like it or not, this game sold more copies on consoles. A lot of games have to be more console-focused (including the customer stuff is directed at) than PC-focused if only for survival, but also considering the direction of gaming. I'm not saying it's right. It is just what it is. Game devs have to follow the money.

Look, I don't care that it sold more on consoles. So did DCUO. The PS3 community continues to dwarf the PC community. As a matter of fact, SOE has come out and said that 70% of the DCUO player base is PS3 side. They also just unveiled the PS4-DCUO at PAX.

So, your response has zero to do with the fact that DCUO, a game that sold more on consoles, a game whose population is 70% console side, still has far more content in a single $10 DLC than Trion Worlds has.

DCUO might have a ready-made base, but by month 4 it was an absolute ghost town. Eight of the 9 servers were absolutely dead. By month 7 they did a server merge into a single Mega-server. One server per platform, per region (US or UK).

By month 11, the game was forced into F2P.

So, no, DCUO was not a success for SOE at first. It was only after the switch to F2P and the cash shop.

SOE has also had multiple strings of Layoffs between 2011 and this year (the past 2 years), and even closed studios and cancelled games entirely that were well into development (The Agency).

DCUO gets $10 DLCs with 100% paid content that, usually, is actually worth paying for. Their fixes, mechanics changes, and such appear in completely separate patches called Game Updates. Sons of Trigon, DLC-8, releases next week. Meanwhile, the completely separate Game Update 29 deals with the QoL stuff, balance, et cetera.

It isn't about company size or history (SOE's history is far worse than Trion Worlds), but how the studio develops and supports its games. Trion Worlds with Defiance is bad. The fact that anyone can look at SOE as doing a better job . . . SOE? . . . just makes it worse.