Attn Developers: Please expain limited use grenades. Will we lose our Orange Grenades

[Indra Echo]

Other games may use this system. If this game had started that way as well, it would be fine. The hard thing is changing the system and making the grenades we have worked so long and hard for totally worthless. A lot of us also purchased these and they are the 2nd highest price item in the game on the forums after AR/LMG.

I understand that but a lot of people are not even listening to what is being said in the twitch video about this--hence this idea that you will lose your prized oj grenade instead of understanding you'd lose the ability to use it and not the grenade itself. People are going crazy about something they don't even yet understand-so it's assuming something will happen and not really asking what will happen.

As I said it could be related to having the Stims. It also might only occur in those arkfalls that they were showing and not in PvP, not in anything else. I agree we need to know more but how about we all calm down and ask questions that aren't accusatory in nature. People are starting off with questions like "why the frick would you screw things up even more?" rather than asking exactly what this does mean and then forming an opinion.

I know the problem is changing anything mid-stream. Here I thought due to my advanced age I'd be the one more resistant to change-that's the stereotype, an old person that can't adapt. And yet, sad to say, a lot of younger people won't even wait to see what some change is for or does and they're already dead set against it. It does make me wonder how people can adapt to anything in real life if they can't handle some change in a videogame.

I have said I think it's particularly not smart to spend oodles of virtual currency on stuff in the game. I don't do it. Especially in a dynamic game where things do change. Mods were high priced. But people wanted more mods, so the devs gave us more mods and gutted the mod market. Immunizers were expensive and people complained about them being OPed, so the devs nerfed them a bit and lowered their value in the market. Burst mods were bugged and I tried to tell people they were going to change that and fix the bug, but some people (this is in chat) said I was wrong and used them after spending lots of virtual cash on them, and then complained when they fixed the bug.

And still it's virtual cash. You can earn more. You decided to take a chance on something in a game. And there is not a game out there that has not gone through the nerfing of things in it based upon player complaint. I'm not saying it's always right or a good thing, but that's the risk you take when spending virtual cash in a game. Some were even more foolish and spent real cash on things. Oh well. Rule number one of gaming-never follow the holy grail weapon trail because devs nerf things.

[ironcladtrash]

Yeah but there were people complaining in the general discussion forum and in chat in the game--and people also sending feedback in the game to Trion. I know of people that were plenty mad about this and that complained all through actual PvP about constantly getting killed instantly by a grenade after unloading their gun into a player who took very little damage. And the words used by some people can't be repeated here.

I didn't say this was my complaint but that people were complaining and many were mad enough to want Trion to do something about it. Just because you never read it, doesn't mean it didn't happen. I've heard many things said that start like this, "I'm so sick of PvP because..." followed by obscenities and then grenades. Not indicative of the majority, but of the attitude of some.

There was no one complaining in general either about grenades. You can find people complaining about everything else for PVP but grenades. Actually because they are reducing the cool down, its going to have the opposite effect and grenades will be used more. This change just sounds like they are making it more in line with other shooting games.

[GS Wraith]

so it's assuming something will happen and not really asking what will happen.

The whole point of the thread including the title is asking the developers what the facts are. We are all discussing what we would think of different changes. Also while discussing, it shows the developers how many and what people would think of the changes. Once a developer responds to this thread, hopefully we will have some real answers.

[Indra Echo]

The whole point of the thread including the title is asking the developers what the facts are. We are all discussing what we would think of different changes. Also while discussing, it shows the developers how many and what people would think of the changes. Once a developer responds to this thread, hopefully we will have some real answers.

I agree and did not mean to indicate you think this-other people are assuming that's what it means and are acting like that's fact. And they're upset about it. There is an assumption that this means the grenades go away when they specifically said they're replenished when you get ammo for them. It's good to ask for clarity. And it's good to state what you worry might happen. Always valid to do. But people are always assuming the worst, whatever that is. I personally don't like games that force you to replenish grenades. I never have liked that, especially those that won't let you replenish them unless you die. But I also know that sometimes things really look good or bad on paper and then upon implementation they're far different. They said things are subject to change too, so I hope you get what you want or something that's workable. I really do.

[GS Wraith]

I do hope you are right Indra. I am asking these questions because the quote "But if you completely run out, you're out. And you've got to go equip a new type of grenade." worries me. It does not say that you just have to look for more ammo. See quote from live stream below.

"Grenades are a limited use item. And Trick has told me that he also plans on lowering the cool down considerably because he wants the number of grenades you have to be the main limiting factor..."

"When you equip a particular type of grenade you'll find that the enemies that you're fighting very often drop that same grenade type, so that you can keep [it]. But if you completely run out, you're out. And you've got to go equip a new type of grenade. It's gonna make people use a lot of different types of grenades as they run out of different kinds."

[Indra Echo]

There was no one complaining in general either about grenades. You can find people complaining about everything else for PVP but grenades. Actually because they are reducing the cool down, its going to have the opposite effect and grenades will be used more. This change just sounds like they are making it more in line with other shooting games.

I'm sorry but yes there were. People were also complaining as I said in chat and they were very angry about them. Just because you didn't read or hear it does not mean it didn't happen.

As I understand it there's no way grenades could be used more (don't even know if this will be implemented in PvP as we don't know stims will), unless there are ammo grenade boxes all over the place. And it may be that we get them from fallen foes, so good luck with that in PvP (you can get ammo drops but they're somewhat rare even with the perks turned on).

I do think if this is in line with other shooters then it's a mistake-I don't think everything should be modeled after other shooters. And for PvE, I think adjustments should tend to favor the player wherever possible. Not in lowered HP, but in tools available.

[Indra Echo]

I do hope you are right Indra. I am asking these questions because the quote when you are out, your out worries me.

"Grenades are a limited use item. And Trick has told me that he also plans on lowering the cool down considerably because he wants the number of grenades you have to be the main limiting factor..."

"When you equip a particular type of grenade you'll find that the enemies that you're fighting very often drop that same grenade type, so that you can keep [it]. But if you completely run out, you're out. And you've got to go equip a new type of grenade. It's gonna make people use a lot of different types of grenades as they run out of different kinds."

You are right, that is a disconcerting quote but I'd think (could be wrong) that simply means if no foes are dropping grenades then you are out of grenades of that type and maybe then have to switch types. Not that they won't be replenished at some other point. The wording is open to interpretation and not so cool if so. I rely on an Infector Grenade for NPCs.

The quote says that enemies very often drop the same grenade type, but my assumption (foolish I know) is that means that some don't drop your grenade type so you can run out at that time and need to switch.

[GS Wraith]

Yes. Good Point. That also brings up the question if you accidentally pick up a different type, do you switch and lose what you have. Again open to interpretation. I will be glad when we get some answers.

[ironcladtrash]

I'm sorry but yes there were. People were also complaining as I said in chat and they were very angry about them. Just because you didn't read or hear it does not mean it didn't happen.

As I understand it there's no way grenades could be used more (don't even know if this will be implemented in PvP as we don't know stims will), unless there are ammo grenade boxes all over the place. And it may be that we get them from fallen foes, so good luck with that in PvP (you can get ammo drops but they're somewhat rare even with the perks turned on).

I do think if this is in line with other shooters then it's a mistake-I don't think everything should be modeled after other shooters. And for PvE, I think adjustments should tend to favor the player wherever possible. Not in lowered HP, but in tools available.

I could just as easily say that I have had tons of conversations in game that you have never seen too that say the exact opposite. Just look around everyone is saying don't nerf grenades or they were never a problem. Everyone is always pretty vocal on the forums about what they think is overpowered and needs nerfed especially for PVP. To say this is because of PVP yet no one is complaining in here is a little strange to put it mildly. My only point was not every nerf is because of PVP.

Anyway, back on the topic has anyone heard yet how this is new grenade mechanic is actually going to work?

[GS Wraith]

No. We are waiting for a developer to post in this thread.