Attn Developers: Please expain limited use grenades. Will we lose our Orange Grenades

[Indra Echo]

I wouldn't go so far as to say it is a worthless investment of dev time...

Not that it was necessary or warranted, but, as a programmer who isn't privy to the inner workings of the dev team, I can only hope that a dev team that has seen serious problems with stability and performance to the point of limiting what they originally hoped to achieve would not be so foolish and/or incompetent as to "all-in" on adding a new consumable system to what is otherwise an already "complete" combat system.

Therefore I have to assume one of two points:
1) The dev team is too ambitious and/or incompetent to realize they shouldn't be making drastic add-ons to the combat system of a game that already has significant problems and hindrances performance-wise.
2) The dev team wanted to add a new consumable system and had the clarity of mind to test such a system before committing the resources to fully fleshing it out.

I am really hoping they went with option #2, in which case these changes to grenades make perfect sense as a test-case for the consumable framework for the more design intensive spikes and stims.

I'm not speculating on competence or the lack thereof. But as far as stability issues, I can't see this as helping in any way, shape, or form. Adding complicated mechanics for a rather simplistic item along with drops to acquire them can only add to instability. Just as patches do and just as adding dance maneuvers to the Volge would do so. Consider one major cause of instability at times-vehicles. The bigger and more complicated the vehicle, the worse the issue.

They are not only adding these things to the game itself in drops (which are a known cause of lag since they're glowy sparkly things) but it's likely they will add to the size of a the character profile (a known issue in other games-causes a lot of the slow downs in Bethesda games). What it also seems will happen, along with the stims and boost spikes and all that, characters will become more complex-they'll carry more things and the game will use more resources to remember what each character has-stacked or random grenades from loot drops and those spikes and stims. Lag will result from this and as yet has not been addressed in the game. They add new things that add to lag-and people want to know why Volge emergency drops have been reduced. It's because of sieges. If the loot drops had remained the same, sieges would be unplayable. As it is they walk a fine line now.

In future we'll have spikes and stims and so on along with loot grenades-they have to reduce something. What do you think will be reduced?

[Indra Echo]

Just a smidge silly to bring this up when you can jump off a cliff and keep moving. Jump your vehicle off the cliff and only have it come to a complete stand still and then keep moving, or drive full speed into a wall, tree, rock or fence and then keep driving. Then there's the infinite spawning vehicle out of thin air. Or standing behind your vehicle and getting shot but you can't shoot back.

It's not very good to bring up immersion when making a change when there are so many immersion breaking mechanics in this game.

This is so true right here. I could see if this were some truly immersive RPG where people said it breaks that by having these fictional infinite supply grenades (reminds me of Conrad Verner and infinite ammo in Mass Effect).

It's a shooter with very little in the way of RPG feel to it. Create more RPG elements instead of changing something that does not cripple immersion. Create immersion first. It's not like everything that exists in the game is so much like real life that we had to have grenades that were limited in supply or it wouldn't be like real life. I'd rather even that they worked on real world mechanics for other weapons first--super powerful rocket launchers that are heavy. Or plants that don't all sound like you hit some rock when you hit them. Or kickback. Or cars that don't all explode when a Monarch breathes on them.

But of course let's have grenades be the one thing that must have some sort of real world element to them. They totally kill the role playing aspect of the game.

I still would rather have real world PvP where ark hunters fight over arktech or caches of scrip and loot - that would be more role playing than a grenade that uses totally convoluted ways to replenish them.

[Xaearth]

I'm not speculating on competence or the lack thereof. But as far as stability issues, I can't see this as helping in any way, shape, or form. Adding complicated mechanics for a rather simplistic item along with drops to acquire them can only add to instability. Just as patches do and just as adding dance maneuvers to the Volge would do so. Consider one major cause of instability at times-vehicles. The bigger and more complicated the vehicle, the worse the issue.

I wasn't saying that it would help stability. I meant only if they had spent all the development time on trying to get stims and spikes to work only to find out their new consumable system makes the game unplayable, then that would be a real waste of dev time. Thus grenades become a logical test-case to see whether consumables are worth the effort.

As for everything else, we'll have to wait and see. My point was the possibility for stability issues is most certainly there, and if I know it and you know it, the devs should know it, and thus should have tested the waters before doing the bulk of the development/design work, which grenades would have fit that purpose nicely.

[Indra Echo]

So in thinking about this Smart Loot idea it occurs to me this very thing provides some rather probable, and concerning, answers about this grenade change:

So you’re running along with your favorite Orange Fragnova STD 55Z in a Siege and you run out – an optimistic idea of “Smart Loot” says it will then grant you an orange Fragnova STD 55Z loot drop to refill you…but if Smart Loot worked that way then it would just be Grenade Ammo; something they are specifically saying this is not.

So in likely reality the Smart Loot will simply alter the game’s basic Loot Table to place a grenade, ANY grenade, at the top of the likely to be dropped next que…

Now again, if one wishes to be optimistic, one could say that it will be altered further to place the EXACT same grenade you are carrying at the top of the que but again this makes the Smart Loot into a Grenade Ammo drop – which it isn’t.

So what do you really think the odds are really going to be of refilling your Orange Fragnova STD 55Z during a Siege, Arkfall, CoOp, etc.? (In addition to the above consider that your Shield, Weapon, and Grenade Loot Drops are now going to be competing – so I’d say the odds are pretty darn small.)

So let’s say I am correct and you are now forced to choose another grenade (something they initially said they were trying to encourage but much less mention of now – curious…but I digress) – how do you do it? If the answer involves pressing the “Start” button to enter your menu then this is a ridiculous FAIL already. Do the developers actually believe you can use the menu while in an Arkfall, Siege, or CoOp?

Devs – your idea of limited grenades and Smart Loot has FAIL written all over it, though I suppose, when your paying audience is rapidly shrinking and the costs to keep the game running are running neck-and-neck with its’ profit then failure IS an option.

To be fair, I think in all those words he did sort of address the need to change to other grenades. I mean, in the video it was stated as sort of a positive way to get us to use other grenades (why, I have no idea and don't see how that benefits us if we like what we're using). And in the post, Trick (thanks for responding to some questions by the way), did seem to think this benefits us but there is not one reason there that actually seems to fit any desire any players had for anything.

The reasons seem even less solid than what was said in the video. The use is still open to too many questions. If the idea is to get us all to have a chance to use some found, limited use oj grenade then stop with the nonsense and give us better ways to acquire them. Not some limited use grenade ammo drop and then a smart loot grenade ammo replenisher that sometimes gives you a refill of the stack you have unless it runs out then it's gone but maybe it's not gone if you fly to a vendor and get back quick.

If it takes too long to explain it-why you're doing it and how it will work, then there's something wrong with the idea.

[OcR Grav]

Is the fact that there's still soooo many issues with this game, and they even recently downsized the Defiance staff lol. It's a good thing you have top men working to correct these horrible issues.

I'm kidding by the way.

Can you believe that OP got an infraction AND a ban threat just for starting this thread? Lol so dumb. The infraction and ban threat that is, not OP.

It really is a shame that Trion couldn't get it together and fix this game.

[Indra Echo]

I wasn't saying that it would help stability. I meant only if they had spent all the development time on trying to get stims and spikes to work only to find out their new consumable system makes the game unplayable, then that would be a real waste of dev time. Thus grenades become a logical test-case to see whether consumables are worth the effort.

As for everything else, we'll have to wait and see. My point was the possibility for stability issues is most certainly there, and if I know it and you know it, the devs should know it, and thus should have tested the waters before doing the bulk of the development/design work, which grenades would have fit that purpose nicely.

No, I understood you weren't saying that but that you hoped they understood it and were going to deal with it-I was agreeing with you in my own way. Since most of what they've recently done has made it worse and attempts to minimize its effects have only created animosity---volge loot drops are an example, done more likely to reduce lagouts at volge sieges, I can't see that they're really exploring how this stuff is affecting people.

And since it's one huge question that remained unanswered in the stuff about economics, grenade axis, people needing to have choice and uncluttered inventories, I don't hold out hope that they've considered it.

One of the other things that points to it is the EGO boosts at DM arkfalls and the explosions--cool to be sure but well lagfests.

The problem with all this is as you said you and I can see this, but it is harder for them to see it. I don't know how they go about playing the game but none of the things they plan for are tested it seems for consoles in any big way so that they get real world experiences. Even the test servers are PC only where it's known these issues are not as bad as on consoles. I know what people are seeing and saying in my game and I know how frustrated they are with lag.

They won't do arenas because lag is too bad. We have to actually keep several people at arkfalls or sieges so if someone lags out, they can get back quickly. I deal with it if I'm alone by keeping track of the names of those at sieges, so if I lag out I can get back into that phase again. I sincerely doubt they are considering any of this since they are not talking at all about it. They have as yet to create some way to get back into a phase easily (a workaround). And won't allow players to get rewards for something if they lag out of a phase they can't get back to. I'd rather they address this first.

At least on the xbox I can usually get back to the lost phase but on the PS3 that's not as easy to do. This whole thing is causing people to leave. So, it just makes sense that they need to look at the game, play in real time with real people before actually adding complicated mechanics for grenades and HP. Simpler is better at this point.

[chilipino]

Hi folks!

One quick clarification, grenade stacks which reach zero will remain in your inventory. You can go to most vendors and refill those stacks for a fee.

How would this mechanic work in PvP?

[Arsenic_Touch]

How would this mechanic work in PvP?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIdOZsEubYc

Going to end up like this most likely.

0:42

[Krazy Karen]

Is the fact that there's still soooo many issues with this game, and they even recently downsized the Defiance staff lol. It's a good thing you have top men working to correct these horrible issues.

I'm kidding by the way.

Can you believe that OP got an infraction AND a ban threat just for starting this thread? Lol so dumb. The infraction and ban threat that is, not OP.

It really is a shame that Trion couldn't get it together and fix this game.

Ahhh, don't discuss moderation silly!, im sure there was like, a reason for it!

And I know that like, there are SOO many questions about all this grenade infoz, but its still in the works remember!

Im sure they will have it all fixed up by the times its inplanted!

[Krazy Karen]

Have to admit, this one gave me a laugh. No offense to you Krazy, but that was some funny shtako...


Edit:
I take it all back, this is the Pièce de résistance

VVVV

its ok babe, I like the attention anyway lulz!