Attn Developers: Please expain limited use grenades. Will we lose our Orange Grenades

[Stellin]

No Zugo I am still playing for now look me up sometime just not into pvp always willing to team up

[Dracian]

I was going to write a long post to express my feedback, but other people have already said pretty much what I wanted to say. So instead I'm going to leave it at two short points:

• A move away from cooldowns to consumables saddens me, and goes against what many modern games (that don't aim to be as realistic as possible) have been doing. I'm usually not one to complain about changes before I can actually experience them, but I'm almost certain I'm not going to like this one. I don't like consumables, I find them much less interesting to use tactically (grenade and spike spam, woo...) and they make you miss out on a whole range of possible cooldown-reduction mechanisms and builds centered around them.
• From the explanation we've had, the planned change goes against Occam's razor. The current grenade system may have some flaws (though I don't really understand the arguments about grenade identity, and feel like the risk-reward balance is perfectly fine, especially when using 24s grenades with refresh-reduction perks / bonuses), but it's simple and fairly efficient. The proposed changes sound complicated and confusing in many ways (balance problems in PvE and PvP, performance issues with too many items on the ground, confusing players who may have trouble deciding whether they should pick up the grenades or not, inventory management issues...)

So yeah, I'm personally unconvinced, at least for now.

And uh, if you really want to make scrip useful... just add an auction house where you can only pay with scrip, and all complaints about scrip being useless will instantly vanish.

My thoughts, exactly.

What saddens me the most is the risk/reward explanation letting us understand that it would be too difficult to use grenades as they are now... I guess Infectors' Aim Assist will still be present for a long time.

I wish skill was more rewarded in that game.

[Indra Echo]

My thoughts, exactly.

What saddens me the most is the risk/reward explanation letting us understand that it would be too difficult to use grenades as they are now... I guess Infectors' Aim Assist will still be present for a long time.

I wish skill was more rewarded in that game.

Yes because apparently grenades needed a change more than anything else. Amazingly enough other weapons and things got nerfed just because - scopes removed just because. But grenades well they need a new mechanic in order to save the game--they will reduce the clutter in our inventories, balance out play, fulfill an economic need, create a great RPG feel, and more. Cool. I prefer the plain version grenade--the one that I equip, that I use bonus rolls to enhance, and that don't need to have so much responsibility placed upon them.

[Indra Echo]

I doubt it. I'm pretty sure that loot boosts actually make enemies drop more ammo as well.

That's exactly what I mean. Trick doesn't want it called grenade ammo, even though we all know it is ammo. He's calling it loot. Well, to me loot is stuff you pick up and can sell or salvage or trade. He didn't say that was still possible. He didn't say what if any way there would be to still get new grenades if they still exist in some tangible form.

However, the fact he is pretty set in calling them loot means to me this is one other thing they will hope we buy boosts for--loot. We know they will want us to buy scrip boosts because we'll need more scrip for that scrip sink.

I should have been more clear, I think they've already lowered the loot drops for everything. At least that's how it's been since this last patch for me. So it doesn't mean we'll get more loot drops--it means we'll hope we do. Well, the few people that want to play this and actually want to even deal all this will hope they do.

I think they lowered the loot drops for the Volge emergencies in order to limit lag at Sieges, but it's still terrible at times. It looks like they've lowered them further because I did arkfalls and sieges today and got less than half the drops I was getting. I wasn't even getting ammo drops.

[Zugo]

I think they lowered the loot drops for the Volge emergencies in order to limit lag at Sieges, but it's still terrible at times. It looks like they've lowered them further because I did arkfalls and sieges today and got less than half the drops I was getting. I wasn't even getting ammo drops.

I agree, and the reason is that they can't distinguish a Viscera at an emergency from one at a seige. We would end up with waaaaay too much loot you know?

[Bonehead]

That's exactly what I mean. Trick doesn't want it called grenade ammo, even though we all know it is ammo. He's calling it loot. Well, to me loot is stuff you pick up and can sell or salvage or trade. He didn't say that was still possible. He didn't say what if any way there would be to still get new grenades if they still exist in some tangible form.

However, the fact he is pretty set in calling them loot means to me this is one other thing they will hope we buy boosts for--loot. We know they will want us to buy scrip boosts because we'll need more scrip for that scrip sink.

I should have been more clear, I think they've already lowered the loot drops for everything. At least that's how it's been since this last patch for me. So it doesn't mean we'll get more loot drops--it means we'll hope we do. Well, the few people that want to play this and actually want to even deal all this will hope they do.

I think they lowered the loot drops for the Volge emergencies in order to limit lag at Sieges, but it's still terrible at times. It looks like they've lowered them further because I did arkfalls and sieges today and got less than half the drops I was getting. I wasn't even getting ammo drops.

I run with the scavenger perk and yesterday was the first time in forever (been playing since release) I was running out of ammo regularly so I have to think your on to something there.

[Indra Echo]

I run with the scavenger perk and yesterday was the first time in forever (been playing since release) I was running out of ammo regularly so I have to think your on to something there.

It's got me wondering. I never have to get ammo from a box at any arkfall or siege. I can't say it's a sure thing, but it does seem to have changed to me. It comes after some of us were pointing out the lag that happens at sieges and arkfalls and the kinds of things causing it, and how new stuff will cause it to happen, including drops of more stuff.

EDIT--I also tested this out using a BMG. Generally, if I do it right and heal those that need healing and do a lot of damage to a lot of foes, I am constantly busy picking up loot. Not so today. I did what I normally would do with a BMG--and got fewer drops. The drops were at about what I'd normally get using other weapons-nothing like BMG drops. I got full keycodes.

[Indra Echo]

The other important questions regarding this involve not only the grenades but the stims and sticks and anything else that players have to purchase with real or virtual money or resources.

If I go to a vendor and "buy" some stacks of my orange frag grenades so I have a supply and I "buy" or reload whatever gets me a smart loot drop so I might get the same rarity or lower grenade as the orange frags (but that might just get me a drop of white marshmallow grenades or sloppy kisses grenades), what happens if say I decide to call for some smart loot grenades and I get lagged out? What happens if I start throwing some of the orange ones I have in the stack I bought, and I get lagged out?

Furthermore, if I buy sticks to call in arkfalls, what happens if I call one in and I get lagged out? Well, at this point I know what will happen because I can't see buying them. I know I am more than likely going to lag out or not be able to play.

Consider that the way it will actually work will be similar to how well Arenas and coop have worked-for me, the answer is clear-at times, ok. At other times, passable. At other times, not very well at all. I'm not going to "buy" anything that I am more than likely to not benefit from.

[Overtkill21]

Apparently they are looking into how this stupid change will affect the grenadier synergy, grenade rolls, and shields....LOL They're looking into it...

Ahhh, so nice to know for a fact that none of you thought of it when making the decision to garbage up the game with your grenade B.S.

[Frozen]

I've called into question the recast timer on grenades in multiple threads. I don't understand why if my belt can regenerate grenades why it can't regenerate bullets too. Having two contrasting ideas like this working together doesn't make sense. It *does* pull me out of the "world" a little.

I don't have a problem with adding grenade ammo. Just make it that, alone. Don't needlessly convolute the system with vendors and random loot drops. Just throw in some grenade ammo icons on the ground, make them nearly as common as ammo, and move the team on to something needed.