Defiance is pushing GPU over 100C. Anyone NOT tech support know a hack to cool this?

[Synther]

Some of the answers in this thread are hilarious. It's almost painful.

1.) Turning on/off VSYNC will have no effect at all, other than to attempt to sync with the monitor refresh rate. The monitor would not have to be 120hz to sync for 60fps, it would have to be 60hz, by the way.

2.) It's a laptop. It's going to get hot. No matter what laptop you have, it will *always* be inferior for gaming compared to a desktop PC. Make sure the air vents are dusted out and turn your graphics down to medium. Don't play on your bed or your lap. And go get a decent laptop cooler.

3.) A game is never to be blamed for your system overheating. The user is. Turn your settings down and follow all the recommendations in item 2.

[Solidus002]

Some of the answers in this thread are hilarious. It's almost painful.

3.) A game is never to be blamed for your system overheating. The user is. Turn your settings down and follow all the recommendations in item 2.

really my laptops bios was to blame for it running idle at 100c i had flash it back to the original bios to fix it and the cards voltage has a lot do with it as well the cards run at a higher voltage when the power supply is plugged in vs when its not

[VicousBlood]

It's kind of the problem with notebooks. Those things are far too crammed to allow for sufficient cooling. Or rather the hardware that is used in notebooks is too powerful for cooling solutions that fit into this tiny space. That doesn't mean an adequate cooling solution needs to be as bulky as a fridge. Adequate cooling solutions can be small. Unfortunately, for those high performance notebooks small is still too big. Hence the problems.

Yep, laptops, even gaming laptops should be used for light gaming. Desktops for long sessions.

A game is never to be blamed for your system overheating. The user is. Turn your settings down and follow all the recommendations in item 2.

You can't blame the user here, he contacted support, took their advice on getting a cooler. So I highly doubt he's a modder or technician. I'm willing to bet it's an untouched stock laptop. Just above spec for the game.

But either way it's nice to see we have a helpful community here, when tech support will only go so far.

[Injury]

2.) It's a laptop. It's going to get hot. No matter what laptop you have, it will *always* be inferior for gaming compared to a desktop PC. Make sure the air vents are dusted out and turn your graphics down to medium. Don't play on your bed or your lap. And go get a decent laptop cooler.

#2 is probably the greatest fact of the whole thread. I just wanted to add to this, before people start thinking to go buy a laptop 'cooler'.

The best way I know to keep temp down is a combination of heat dissipation paste (smeared on the processor plate) + a cooler, and of course as much airflow as possible.

Whether laptop or desktop, if you're not sure what is involved, it would be better to take your system in for the service to be done for you. If your system doesn't come with dissipation paste, or cooler (they're like little refrigerators that sit on top of processors) you'll have to add it yourself. Laptops are a lot harder to work on than desktops; there is so little room inside, it's easy to make a mistake, even if you know what you're doing.

Desktops that run hot can be made more cool by adding more airflow. Also, there is usually enough room to add little cooler systems to the power supply and processors.

Laptops that run hot, will probably always run hot - assuming you've tried turning down the game's display to their lowest settings -there isn't much else to do. Most laptops do not have enough space inside to be able to mount a cooler, and any gain from heat dissipation paste would be minimal.

The best way I know to increase a laptop's airflow is to keep the laptop on a flat surface with like a finger or two of space between. If your system doesn't come with little feet to help prop it up, put it on top of something: for example, four books spaced out so that each corner of the laptop is resting on each book, with a big empty space underneath your laptop. Look at the bottom of your laptop; know where the fans vents are, and prop it up so that the vents aren't blocked.

[Strontium Dog]

Some of the answers in this thread are hilarious. It's almost painful.

1.) Turning on/off VSYNC will have no effect at all, other than to attempt to sync with the monitor refresh rate. The monitor would not have to be 120hz to sync for 60fps, it would have to be 60hz, by the way.

2.) It's a laptop. It's going to get hot. No matter what laptop you have, it will *always* be inferior for gaming compared to a desktop PC. Make sure the air vents are dusted out and turn your graphics down to medium. Don't play on your bed or your lap. And go get a decent laptop cooler.

3.) A game is never to be blamed for your system overheating. The user is. Turn your settings down and follow all the recommendations in item 2.

1) I erd here and meant to mention double buffering ...that said....your computer cannot make your gpu faster only slower to vsynch therefor you want as fast as possible screen refresh otherwise your LIMIT is like 60hz ie 60fps etcetc

2) Please re read OP post cause he states hes tried extra laptop cooler.

3)Games can be blamed since some even at low settings cause issues on inferior hardware.

In conclusion your post hurt us a little is was so funny and its STILL going to be a hardware issue for the OP.Blocked vent, duff fan, unseated heatsink etc .Not Defiance .

Some info for you to read on the subject before you launch into a diatribe etc;

There is however a more fundamental problem with enabling VSync, and that is it can significantly reduce your overall framerate, often dropping your FPS to exactly 50% of the refresh rate. This is a difficult concept to explain, but it just has to do with timing. When VSync is enabled, your graphics card becomes a slave to your monitor. If at any time your FPS falls just below your refresh rate, each frame starts taking your graphics card longer to draw than the time it takes for your monitor to refresh itself. So every 2nd refresh, your graphics card just misses completing a new whole frame in time. This means that both its primary and secondary frame buffers are filled, it has nowhere to put any new information, so it has to sit idle and wait for the next refresh to come around before it can unload its recently completed frame, and start work on a new one in the newly cleared secondary buffer. This results in exactly half the framerate of the refresh rate whenever your FPS falls below the refresh rate.

More reading here http://www.tweakguides.com/Graphics_9.html

[Synther]

1) I erd here and meant to mention double buffering ...that said....your computer cannot make your gpu faster only slower to vsynch therefor you want as fast as possible screen refresh otherwise your LIMIT is like 60hz ie 60fps etcetc

2) Please re read OP post cause he states hes tried extra laptop cooler.

3)Games can be blamed since some even at low settings cause issues on inferior hardware.

In conclusion your post hurt us a little is was so funny and its STILL going to be a hardware issue for the OP.Blocked vent, duff fan, unseated heatsink etc .Not Defiance .

Some info for you to read on the subject before you launch into a diatribe etc;


More reading here http://www.tweakguides.com/Graphics_9.html

You're an idiot. A game is NEVER to blame for overheating. Period. It is *always* a hardware issue or user related. If you are running a game that is hard on your hardware, the user is to blame. If you have not cleaned the dust out of your computer, the user is to blame. If you are using your laptop sitting on your bed, the user is to blame.

There is NEVER a case where you load up one game and your temps spike to 100c and load up another game and it is fine without it being a user issue. Never.

I've only been building an teching computers for 30+ years, son. Take your psudo tech abilities home and keep them in your mom's basement where they belong.

[Strontium Dog]

You're an idiot. *STOPPED HERE DUE TO POSTER IQ LEVEL *.

You sir, are the idiot here. You haven't been near a computer for 30 years my arse or you wouldn't ever make sweeping statements as "xxx can NEVER happen in a computer" etc. Games can cause glitches and as a beta tester of MANY years in the past, paid to do so, I can tell you without a doubt , I have seen games cause issues.

Saying its NEVER the game always the user etc is like saying guns dont kill. Typical yank mentality.

BUT, if you read instead of ranting, then you would see i said it WAS hardware issue he has without a doubt.


Now, I will go back to ordering MY staff around in MY department at MY exhibition with MY network. YOU can go back to "mom" if you wish.



Id suggest a thread lock before we get any more idiot comments from this kid.

[Lasse B]

If a chip is at least partially faulty then yes, software might trigger issues. But such chip-related issues are usually limited to glitched graphics or a system that's prone to crashing. It might even cause the voltage regulators and transformers on a graphic card to burn through. The chip however only overheats when the cooling solution doesn't keep up with the heat loss of the chip. Otherwise a lot more users would be doing something terribly wrong. This link is an example of why even high-performance notebooks literally can't take the heat.

[VicousBlood]

HP's are some of the worst laptops though when it comes to gaming. I worked for a company in Austin Multek (Multilayer Technologies, Operater #7988, Inspection stamp 98, ID Steven R.. Employee information posted if you feel the need to verify my credentials). We've made prototype machines(computers, cell phones, tablets...), to ensure they work with the new PCB, pin testing is primary, complete build is second verification. We've made them for just about everything and everyone including HP from an absolute no chip/rom/capacitor/resistor...anything, bareboard.

A laptop's cooling system is based around what its primary role is going to be. As I have stated in a previous post. Harder working laptops will have more cooling, light use laptops have less cooling. Now that, that has been established, it also needs to be noted that some laptop manufacturers are just plain awful with cooling engineering. Just because someone is making 60k to 100+k a year doesn't mean they are the brightest on the block. Cooler placement is another issue.

Let's take an example of a bad idea, Dell Inspiron 9400 with a geforce 7800go (which has a similiar board design to OP's 9800m) and XPS with same series card, I remember when these came out they were not really made for gaming. But people used them as such and the same failure would plague them all. The solder on graphic card would soften and lose contact with roms. Now, the problem here was fan placement. This series laptop only carried a rear left hand bottom fan. With only a right side inlet vent and a few small vents in the cover of the RAM module assembly. This created an extremely uneven vacuum within the machine. On the right side underneath the keyboard sat the video card with an oversized bulky cooler that blocked most of the inlet vent flow. In essence, the majority of the air being pulled through the unit was up from the bottom and immediately out through the left. Leaving the graphic side to easy overheating due to the oversize of the cooler not allowing smooth air flow. By simply adding a side fan to this machine on the graphics side, it reduced card overheat and failure. But it had to be added by the user.

Software and overheating, yes it is possible for software to cause components to overheat. First way as I have posted before, is pushing the hardware to it's limits. In the OP's case it's a 9800m, which is equivalent to the 8800 GS (Desktop), only 1 tier above minumum, this comparison was used as they have not posted laptop specs for defiance. V-Sync I feel will not help, as I'm pretty sure he is only getting at the most 40 FPS and Vsync only synchronizes and exposes frames when your monitor says it's ready for the frame, to reduce screen tearing. In the background on the hardware itself it is still rendering what it is capable of rendering. Now albeit it's usually only graphically intensive (Do understand when I say graphically intensive, I mean it relies as much or more on the GPU than CPU and I don't mean highest settings.) applications that can cause overheating on a GPU. Even in a game's lowest settings there is still a bottom line of things that needs to be rendered. The card will have to keep up with this bottom line regardless. Even if the the card is just enough to meet that bottom line, it will still be pushed to it's limits. When you are pushing PC\laptops components to it's limit, it will then overheat. Laptop graphic cards even more so, when compared to any other desktop part, because laptop cards are the most watered down component between the two systems. And it still has to keep up with that bottom line, that was probably constructed on a desktop. And the older hardware gets the more it has to be aware and filter out new instructions (new software that requires hardware/hardware changes that came out after hardware in question was made) the device is not capable of executing. Any amount of work your chips have to do will cause heat. There is no way around that and the more it has to do the hotter it will get. The second way is if the software is giving the hardware instructions it was not meant to handle or instructions written wrong causing the device to run abnormally in which case, the device can seem to run fine but eventually there will be issues.

However there are laptops out there with great cooling systems like the ASUS & MSI gaming laptops where the bottom of the case is a giant fan.

And for the guy saying he's a 30+ year tech, I find it unprofessional & insulting to blame the user, as well as the childish mom comment to the other poster. If you've been working on systems that long and are good at it, like mine, your work should speak for itself . You can blame the hardware or software outright, all day everyday. But a good technician, won't make any definitive judgments until he has seen the machine physically or remotely and talked to the user. As a technician myself I can look at the OP's very short first post and tell you he is not hardware savvy. So the only thing useful I saw that you told him was to take it to a shop. But then, you also noted he should add paste himself, which, should never be suggested, not knowing if the user knows how to pull the laptop apart without destroying it.

One last thing, if you missed it. Another user in this same thread had the same issue with the same graphics card, which was solved by reverting his bios, which had malfunctioned the voltage control to his GPU. Do I really need to inform you that the bios is the base software for MB? Which just goes to show while a piece of hardware may be able to run a piece of software it doesn't always mean the the software is going run the hardware properly.

[Lasse B]

The following is not a personal attack. Please don't anyone view it as such. I'm splitting up things, and hoping to be keeping the intended meaning intact, to make it easier for myself to answer more directly to opinions and ideas, and to make it easier for others to follow the discussion that was sparked by such an idea or opinion.

Software and overheating, yes it is possible for software to cause components to overheat. First way as I have posted before, is pushing the hardware to it's limits.

What is "the limit" in your opinion? In mine, it is full load at default voltage and clock settings.

With that in mind, one can push his hardware to the limit without it overheating. There are various programs meant for benchmarking or stress testing components. For GPUs there's e.g. Furmark, for CPUs there's Prime95 an others. Some programs are even specifically designed to stress a new architecture of a chip to put full load on everything. That also includes stressing new instruction sets. Yet, when one puts a good enough cooler onto these chips, they actually don't overheat and run well for hours upon hours, days even.

V-Sync I feel will not help, as I'm pretty sure he is only getting at the most 40 FPS and Vsync only synchronizes and exposes frames when your monitor says it's ready for the frame, to reduce screen tearing.

That's why I suggested a frame limiting software.

In the background on the hardware itself it is still rendering what it is capable of rendering.

I strongly disagree. Things can be measured. There's monitoring software for all kinds of hardware (I'm running Rivatuner Statistics Server + HWinfo), including graphics cards. When one reduces load on the chip by either reducing resolution, detail settings, anti-aliasing, limiting the frame rate or whatever, three things happen. First one is the load on the chip is dropping, second one is the temperature of the chip is dropping, and third one, although directly related to second one, is the fan on the cooling solution is slowing down a bit. None of that would happen if the card was still running at or near full load.

Even in a game's lowest settings there is still a bottom line of things that needs to be rendered. The card will have to keep up with this bottom line regardless. Even if the the card is just enough to meet that bottom line, it will still be pushed to it's limits. When you are pushing PC\laptops components to it's limit, it will then overheat.

While it's true there's some unavoidable base load, which some chips will also have a hard time keeping up with depending on their performance, it still only overheats when the heat generated by the chip is too much for the cooling solution to dispose of.

And the older hardware gets the more it has to be aware and filter out new instructions (new software that requires hardware/hardware changes that came out after hardware in question was made) the device is not capable of executing. Any amount of work your chips have to do will cause heat. There is no way around that and the more it has to do the hotter it will get.

That may have been the case when software was coded to access the hardware directly. Today, as far as PCs and games are concerned, the filtering of new instructions that can't be processed by the card usually happens at the driver or API level. These new instructions never reach the card. Worst thing that happens is a message popping up saying the card isn't compatible with whatever minimum API (Direct3D or OpenGL) version the game requires.

What the graphics chip maker might do however is to find a way for the chip to process the new instructions regardless. He can implement methods into the driver to translate these new instructions into something the hardware can actually handle. The graphics chip does calculations all the time, and if there are some inefficient calculations to be done because the chip doesn't support them to be done efficiently, it only means the game is running a bit slower.

However there are laptops out there with great cooling systems like the ASUS & MSI gaming laptops where the bottom of the case is a giant fan.

That does sound like a better cooling solution.

One last thing, if you missed it. Another user in this same thread had the same issue with the same graphics card, which was solved by reverting his bios, which had malfunctioned the voltage control to his GPU. Do I really need to inform you that the bios is the base software for MB? Which just goes to show while a piece of hardware may be able to run a piece of software it doesn't always mean the the software is going run the hardware properly.

In this case (, too), the game wasn't directly responsible for "overloading" the GPU. It merely triggered an error originating somewhere else, or rather made use of leeway that shouldn't have been there in the first place. It is not Trion's or any other game developer's job to verify that the hardware and underlying software is working properly.