Dev Update: Changing damage reduction - update!

[chilipino]

We'll always get the bugs when we are able. In regard to the damage reduction changes, we haven't identified any actual bugs. The videos we've been sent (after analyzing them with devs) don't show bugs we can fix but have highlighted issues with the game that can be remedied with the damage reduction change that will make things better for you guys in that regard (and stop the stuff we're seeing in those videos).

Hmm. Not sure which videos were sent to you but I'd love to know the loadout that would require non-stop 3 full 75-round tachmag magazines to down the target. After all, you guys are fixing it and it's not an exploit, right? Sharing is caring.

[Atticus Batman]

With the utmost respect I have for you as a player of the game who has demonstrated wisdom on countless occasions - The red portion highlighted is akin to saying:

"I rarely take a drink so I am not bothered much about the prohibition. What could go wrong?"

Just sayin'... things aren't fair just because we aren't affected. They have to be fair to ppl who aren't us, too.


"Making patches and detting certification for every patch costs money. slipping a fix into an upcoming patch is cheaper and takes less time for certification.

Therefore Trion doesn't have to spend as much money and we have time to test the change and report any bugs and glitches that it has caused."
* It's always cheaper/easier to fix something if you dont have to do it right.....



And I 100% agree that small bites make it easier to distinguish just where the rancid peanut butter starts and the good stuff ends.

'Supposed to be a group game' got killed off by the bad social interaction-ability of the U.I. so by default it IS a solo game for the most part for many people. And I can take perks into a solo mission (Most of the game play involving storyline IS solo play) where spikes may not be useful. How many times can I replay Jackleg Joe or Nim on my equipped perk, Vs how many times can I die and replay the mission on the single spike I have?

You have my respects.

I still respect you as well. Most of your opinions are well worded and make sense. But I am afraid it sounds like you enjoy the solo bosses. I am sorry but Jackelg is boring and can be beat with an incenerator and a Vbi ar and a decent shield, only perks I had at the time were the ones that affected OC. To get the little firemonkeys to scream and run under jack use the incenerator. You shoot one on the little guy and watch him flame up. He lights on fire and runs screaming under Joe,forcing the guy down. Switch to the ar, overcharge and unload. rinse and repeat. Nim was a pain the first time, but now that he has been nerfed he is still long but fairly easy. The chat needs fixed for those that use it (and I would use it if it worked) and the solo missions need changed to group missions. We all know that, but if they were to change EVERYTHING at once, then instead of some of us older players complaining, EVERYBODY would complain and lots would quit in protest, then there would be NO Defiance to fix and complain about. I'm sorry I prefer a few changes at a time. With that we still have Defiance to complain about but play, and we only get a few more bugs to report and hopefully get fixed, instead of thousands of bugs at once that would destroy the game as well as our love for it.

[Vikingkid3]

We'll always get the bugs when we are able. In regard to the damage reduction changes, we haven't identified any actual bugs. The videos we've been sent (after analyzing them with devs) don't show bugs we can fix but have highlighted issues with the game that can be remedied with the damage reduction change that will make things better for you guys in that regard (and stop the stuff we're seeing in those videos).

Like Chillipino said, would you be able to share some of these videos with us? If you showed some of the videos you've been sent during a livestream, we may be able to mend the disconnect between what you and the dev team are seeing as intended gameplay vs what the players have been calling bugs. As it is now, we both sit on different sides of the table and both see something different. And your livestreams seem to be the perfect place for the players to hear your side and understand your thoughts behind what we call bugs.

For instance, the video below is one I sent in regarding the damage "bug" (I can remove the video from this, and an earlier, post if you deem it necessary). In this video, I record three confrontations with a player who has been effected by the "bug". The third fight in particular (starting at 27 seconds) shows the player's shield breaking at 32 seconds, for the next three seconds, the amount of damage he takes drops 90% (202 crit to 20 crit). With perk stacking, the only possible amount of damage reduction he could have achieved in that instant is 56% (not crouched-Hunker Down, not standing still-Fortified Stance, had not killed anyone-Detachment) through Cellular Armor and Thick Skin. The only possible way to achieve 90% damage reduction is if he had a 34% damage reduction while reloading weapon mastery (no shield has a damage reduction bonus that would have applied in state that he was in) and was reloading his sawed off, instead of switching to his SMG. Furthermore, after Thick Skin's three seconds of protection has ended, he has 81% damage reduction for 6 more seconds (131 base damage at the beginning of the fight, 26 damage at the middle of the fight, back up to normal damage levels at the 43rd second of the video). At least 9 seconds after his shield has broken, he has achieved damage reduction levels that are impossible under normal circumstances, for periods of time that are impossible under normal circumstances.

Sadly, I forgot to inspect him on video, to prove how his loadout would not have given him those damage reduction levels. However, from the fire rate of his smg, it is likely a VOT Pulser (common among all who have this bug) and from the reduced damage he took from the first 3 shots on his shield I assume he was using a strong guardian shield (if so, that may be an indication of a bug, as guardian shields offer protection when the shield is full, after the first shot the shield is no longer full) that offers 34% (87 damage from the first three hits vice 131 from the following hits) damage reduction when shields are full.

I hope I was clear in my explanation, because from this video alone, it is evident that perks are not where the bug lies when it comes to damage reduction. As far as I could tell, all of them worked correctly throughout the three fights. It is the bonuses on the gun and, possibly, the shield that have been causing all the problems.

http://youtu.be/He75iaaeCGg

[Chump Norris]

Update! After spending time testing this update in QA through the weekend, we need more time before it goes live. Here's an update from Trick about why we're delaying:

In the interest of improving the quality of the damage reduction update, we are going to need to delay it until our next code patch. Without a code update, the damage numbers displayed when fighting another player would be inaccurate to the damage done. This would cause players to see damage done to opponents then see it quickly restore as the damage difference was transmitted from the server. By waiting until we can update the reported damage functionality, we are preventing confusion once the damage reduction update goes live.

Please tell me you guys are re-thinking this lazy option and going for an actual fix for the problem.

[chilipino]

Like Chillipino said, would you be able to share some of these videos with us? If you showed some of the videos you've been sent during a livestream, we may be able to mend the disconnect between what you and the dev team are seeing as intended gameplay vs what the players have been calling bugs. As it is now, we both sit on different sides of the table and both see something different. And your livestreams seem to be the perfect place for the players to hear your side and understand your thoughts behind what we call bugs.

For instance, the video below is one I sent in regarding the damage "bug" (I can remove the video from this, and an earlier, post if you deem it necessary). In this video, I record three confrontations with a player who has been effected by the "bug". The third fight in particular (starting at 27 seconds) shows the player's shield breaking at 32 seconds, for the next three seconds, the amount of damage he takes drops 90% (202 crit to 20 crit). With perk stacking, the only possible amount of damage reduction he could have achieved in that instant is 56% (not crouched, not standing still, had not killed anyone) through Cellular Armor and Thick Skin. The only possible way to achieve 90% damage reduction is if he had a 34% damage reduction while reloading weapon mastery (no shield has a damage reduction bonus that would have applied in state that he was in) and was reloading his sawed off, instead of switching to his SMG. Furthermore, after Thick Skin's three seconds of protection has ended, he has 65% damage reduction for 6 more seconds (131 base damage at the beginning of the fight, 46 damage at the end of the fight, back up to normal damage levels at the 43rd second of the video). At least 9 seconds after his shield has broken, he has achieved damage reduction levels that are impossible under normal circumstances, for periods of time that are impossible under normal circumstances.

Sadly, I forgot to inspect him on video, to prove how his loadout would not have given him those damage reduction levels. However, from the fire rate of his smg, it is likely a VOT Pulser (common among all who have this bug) and from the reduced damage he took from the first 3 shots on his shield I assume he was using a strong guardian shield (if so, that may be an indication of a bug, as guardian shields offer protection when the shield is full, after the first shot the shield is no longer full) that offers 34% (87 damage from the first three hits vice 131 from the following hits) damage reduction when shields are full.

I hope I was clear in my explanation, because from this video alone, it is evident that perks are not where the bug lies when it comes to damage reduction. As far as I could tell, all of them worked correctly throughout the three fights. It is the bonuses on the gun and, possibly, the shield that have been causing the all the problems.

http://youtu.be/He75iaaeCGg

^This. I had the same experience with the same individual in the video along with another clan mate of that person.

Bottom line: If it's not considered an exploit then the information should be public knowledge. Keeping the information private only diminishes developer-player trust.

[Dracian]

Like Chillipino said, would you be able to share some of these videos with us?

I think you didn't get the point of Dahanese statement (I have bolded what is important) :

We'll always get the bugs when we are able. In regard to the damage reduction changes, we haven't identified any actual bugs. The videos we've been sent (after analyzing them with devs) don't show bugs we can fix but have highlighted issues with the game that can be remedied with the damage reduction change that will make things better for you guys in that regard (and stop the stuff we're seeing in those videos).

If there hasn't been any bug, the sentence would have been "The videos we've been sent (...) don't show bugs but have highlighted issues blah blah blaa...".

There are bugs indeed, but they can't fix them.

[Clarity Page]

this is going to make the lone wolf approach much more difficult, i can't understand why they can't just put non-stackable defence boosts on pvp and leave pve as it is (although it might be more difficult to program in). in attempting to fix pvp they are going to break pve.

[chilipino]

I think you didn't get the point of Dahanese statement (I have bolded what is important)

Well, it depends on what words you bold now doesn't it?

We'll always get the bugs when we are able. In regard to the damage reduction changes, we haven't identified any actual bugs. The videos we've been sent (after analyzing them with devs) don't show bugs we can fix but have highlighted issues with the game that can be remedied with the damage reduction change that will make things better for you guys in that regard (and stop the stuff we're seeing in those videos).

[Deunan]

Well, it depends on what words you bold now doesn't it?

Not really. The sentence that's relevant is the one that directly references videos sent by players.

[Sanguinesun]

We'll always get the bugs when we are able. In regard to the damage reduction changes, we haven't identified any actual bugs. The videos we've been sent (after analyzing them with devs) don't show bugs we can fix but have highlighted issues with the game that can be remedied with the damage reduction change that will make things better for you guys in that regard (and stop the stuff we're seeing in those videos).

So you always get bugs when able.

Dont see bugs in your changes to DR.

Can't fix bugs seen in videos by others about things.

But your DR changes will fix the issues(not bugs?) seen in the videos by others.

Ok...