Dev Update: Changing damage reduction - update!

[dahanese]

I think you didn't get the point of Dahanese statement (I have bolded what is important) :



If there hasn't been any bug, the sentence would have been "The videos we've been sent (...) don't show bugs but have highlighted issues blah blah blaa...".

There are bugs indeed, but they can't fix them.

Sorry about the confusion here: we are getting videos from the community, checking them out, and figuring out why things are happening. They are happening not due to bugs: ergo, no bugs that can be fixed as they do not appear.

I'm sending the latest video over to see what's going on and when I get more info, I'll let you guys know.

And to Chilipino: for strategies of any kind, I'm going to leave that discussion up to the community. Notturno has been super helpful with our investigations if I'm going to give thanks to someone!

[mattr]

Sorry about the confusion here: we are getting videos from the community, checking them out, and figuring out why things are happening. They are happening not due to bugs: ergo, no bugs that can be fixed as they do not appear.

I'm sending the latest video over to see what's going on and when I get more info, I'll let you guys know.

And to Chilipino: for strategies of any kind, I'm going to leave that discussion up to the community. Notturno has been super helpful with our investigations if I'm going to give thanks to someone!

So you guys don't consider using a specific weapon to boost your DR to almost 100% when your shield breaks a bug? Because what's going to happen is you reduce everyone else's DR while the user with the certain gun still obtains almost 100% DR.

To me that makes no sense whatsoever. From what I gather the whole point of eliminating stacking DR is to prevent 100% DR. But using a certain setup to obtain almost 100% DR isn't a bug from your point of view?

Even typing it out feels like i'm going around in circles.....

So which is it? Is the DR perk nerf to prevent 100% DR, or is almost 100% DR from a certain weapon ok? It seems to me like your left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing...

And I don't see how you guys can't reproduce it if that's the problem. My clan saw someone with the almost 100% DR, inspected him, and was able to reproduce it in less than a hour of trial and error.....

I don't mean to be harsh, but the whole situation just stinks of laziness. And the bad part is even the lazy fix will not prevent the original issue.


PS. On a completely unrelated topic. Are you sure your time is best spent messing with perks that no one has complained about instead of fixing the constant freezes and disconnects people are experiencing?

[TrickDempsey]

So, some details on things that are broken due to various stacking bugs:

It is possible to get Thick Skinned to trigger three times causing a 9 second armor boost rather than a 3 second armor boost. This is due to the trigger for the boost having poor stacking settings. (This issue we are actively investigating as separate matter.)

Additionally, the legendary weapon mastery for less damage while reloading (12%) can stack with the synergy bonus for less damage while reloading (5%). (Additionally, there is an edge case to get this synergy bonus to actually stack twice, providing a 10% total bonus.)

Combined with a short recharge delay shield and the less damage while recharging legendary shield bonus (12%) and cellular armor (6%), it is possible to have a few combinations which result in a consistent ~35% damage resistance bonus. (Or greater.)

The mastery bonus on the weapon stacking with the synergy which can then stack on itself really skew the results. (There are also a few times in the videos that In The Trenches and just normal weapon falloff come into effect, but predominantly we're seeing the unfortunate results of poor effect stacking.)

The damage reduction stacking update will not solve every problem seen by every player, it will however solve most of the witnessed issues and open up future perk, weapon, and shield functionality. With a reliable core set of rules, damage resistance becomes a mechanic that can be built upon for greater strategy and variety rather than the target of an endless series of exploits.

[LITTLE B1RD]

So you guys don't consider using a specific weapon to boost your DR to almost 100% when your shield breaks a bug? Because what's going to happen is you reduce everyone else's DR while the user with the certain gun still obtains almost 100% DR.

To me that makes no sense whatsoever. From what I gather the whole point of eliminating stacking DR is to prevent 100% DR. But using a certain setup to obtain almost 100% DR isn't a bug from your point of view?

Even typing it out feels like i'm going around in circles.....

So which is it? Is the DR perk nerf to prevent 100% DR, or is almost 100% DR from a certain weapon ok? It seems to me like your left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing...

And I don't see how you guys can't reproduce it if that's the problem. My clan saw someone with the almost 100% DR, inspected him, and was able to reproduce it in less than a hour of trial and error.....

I don't mean to be harsh, but the whole situation just stinks of laziness. And the bad part is even the lazy fix will not prevent the original issue.


PS. On a completely unrelated topic. Are you sure your time is best spent messing with perks that no one has complained about instead of fixing the constant freezes and disconnects people are experiencing?

If you know, for sure, the weapon and/or shield exploit, and were able to do it, then report it to the devs.

They don't seem to be acknowledging this event that has been seen by quite a few people.

I haven't played PVP, but I have seen a lot of posts about it being a specific weapon and/or shield combo.

If you were able to reproduce, then they, also, should be able.

[mattr]

If you know, for sure, the weapon and/or shield exploit, and were able to do it, then report it to the devs.

They don't seem to be acknowledging this event that has been seen by quite a few people.

I haven't played PVP, but I have seen a lot of posts about it being a specific weapon and/or shield combo.

If you were able to reproduce, then they, also, should be able.

I can't even count the number of times myself and others have reported it. I don't even bother anymore. It's not like even with the bug it's impossible to kill people that use it. If we know the person is doing it unintentionally, we inform them of the problem. Most of the time they will stop using that weapon. If they do it intentionally, we make it a point to kill them even if we have to chase them across the map to do it.

I'm more annoyed by the fact that Trion won't even acknowledge the issue, but will turn around and change perks that from my knowledge no one has complained about.

[duction]

what if someone was to just post how to do it all over the internet and everyone started using the glitch? surely they would have to speed things up a little

[chilipino]

Thank you for the reply, Trick!

So, some details on things that are broken due to various stacking bugs:

It is possible to get Thick Skinned to trigger three times causing a 9 second armor boost rather than a 3 second armor boost. This is due to the trigger for the boost having poor stacking settings. (This issue we are actively investigating as separate matter.)

Is this due to possibly having a siphon weapon that procs right after your shield breaks bringing you back some shield which then breaks...etc etc.? Btw, this is probably the main culprit in the cognitive gap between your team and us players.

Additionally, the legendary weapon mastery for less damage while reloading (12%) can stack with the synergy bonus for less damage while reloading (5%). (Additionally, there is an edge case to get this synergy bonus to actually stack twice, providing a 10% total bonus.)

I believe purples can also get this mastery as a few of the folks using this "creative stacking of DR" did have purple weapons in their loadout. So basically two machinist weapons... fire weapon 1, get it into reload state, switch to weapon 2, get it into reload state... ta da 10% DR.

Combined with a short recharge delay shield and the less damage while recharging legendary shield bonus (12%) and cellular armor (6%), it is possible to have a few combinations which result in a consistent ~35% damage resistance bonus. (Or greater.)

I've seen these shield in purple flavor as well (4-8% DR).

The mastery bonus on the weapon stacking with the synergy which can then stack on itself really skew the results. (There are also a few times in the videos that In The Trenches and just normal weapon falloff come into effect, but predominantly we're seeing the unfortunate results of poor effect stacking.)

The damage reduction stacking update will not solve every problem seen by every player, it will however solve most of the witnessed issues and open up future perk, weapon, and shield functionality. With a reliable core set of rules, damage resistance becomes a mechanic that can be built upon for greater strategy and variety rather than the target of an endless series of exploits.

Thanks for all of this info. Now it's super clear why you're implementing the DR changes the way you are.

So with the new changes, the maximum DR that a player can have will be:

Thick Skinned (50) + Shield (12) + Weapon (5) = 67% for at most 3 seconds?

Quick follow-up question: What were your thoughts around a general DR cap across shields, weapons, and perks? Would that have given more or less strategy/variety to players?

[Shogo_Yahagi]

It is possible to get Thick Skinned to trigger three times causing a 9 second armor boost rather than a 3 second armor boost. This is due to the trigger for the boost having poor stacking settings. (This issue we are actively investigating as separate matter.)

I know this sounds crazy, but I'd suggest that you stick to fixing things that are broken (like effects that trigger multiple times when they aren't supposed to, or weapon boosts that stay active when you're not wielding the weapon) instead of things that aren't (like stacking).

Additionally, the legendary weapon mastery for less damage while reloading (12%) can stack with the synergy bonus for less damage while reloading (5%). (Additionally, there is an edge case to get this synergy bonus to actually stack twice, providing a 10% total bonus.)

And this is a problem why? Why should adding a synergy disable the mastery bonus or vice versa? Getting a bonus on an item that disables your bonuses on other items or makes your perks useless is not a bonus. If Dark Matter complains, you can send them my way and I'll explain it to them.

Combined with a short recharge delay shield and the less damage while recharging legendary shield bonus (12%) and cellular armor (6%), it is possible to have a few combinations which result in a consistent ~35% damage resistance bonus. (Or greater.)

The mastery bonus on the weapon stacking with the synergy which can then stack on itself really skew the results. (There are also a few times in the videos that In The Trenches and just normal weapon falloff come into effect, but predominantly we're seeing the unfortunate results of poor effect stacking.)

The damage reduction stacking update will not solve every problem seen by every player, it will however solve most of the witnessed issues and open up future perk, weapon, and shield functionality. With a reliable core set of rules, damage resistance becomes a mechanic that can be built upon for greater strategy and variety rather than the target of an endless series of exploits.

And here's the basic disconnect that is killing this game. You actually see optimal legendary equipment that gives you a game play advantage as a problem. I thought that was kind of the point of hunting for optimal legendary gear. To get all of those bonuses to stack, you have to get all of the right random bonuses on the right items to fit your play style, without getting stuck with useless "bonuses" on any of them.

Moreover, those perks and bonuses aren't free. They are taking the place of other bonuses that you could be using in their place. Tanking it up by stacking damage resistance means forgoing bonuses that would boost your damage output or give you other advantages like bigger crits or longer cloaking. It's a trade-off.

(edited to remove misplaced blame; thanks, mattr)

[mattr]

Edited with appreciation to Shogo for not placing this one on PvPers heh.

[Shogo_Yahagi]

I was with you until I read this.

I love how you people want to blame everything on the PvP community. None of us asked for the DR changes. We asked for the bug to be fixed that gave nearly 100% DR after shield break.

Get it right before you blindly point fingers.

I might as well just start blaming everything I don't like about the game on PvEers. Disconnected from arkfall? PvEers fault. Freeze at siege? PvEers fault. Fall through the map? PvEers fault. Don't you guys realize how ridiculous you sound when you blame everything on PvPers with no basis of truth.

Sorry. You're absolutely correct. After reading more of the thread, it appears they are breaking things you didn't ask for them to fix. It's not an excuse, but this is the first I've been on in a while and I had only a short while to post. I read the start of the thread, jumped to the end, saw Trick's post and started typing. With your indulgence, I'll remove that bit.