Dev Update: Changing damage reduction - update!

[Vikingkid3]

Thank you for the reply, Trick!


Is this due to possibly having a siphon weapon that procs right after your shield breaks bringing you back some shield which then breaks...etc etc.? Btw, this is probably the main culprit in the cognitive gap between your team and us players.

Chili, from what I've seen, I think that does happen, but using my last video as an example, he never has a siphon proc during the fight. However, maybe Thick Skin activated, then after the first three seconds something else deactivated (maybe the reloading bonuses, dropping his damage reduction from 90% to 81%) and Thick Skin continued to activate 2 more times, then there would be a 25% (minus cellular armor) damage reduction bonus that is unaccounted for. Falloff damage and In The Trenches could have taken affect at some point, but falloff damage only decreases the damage he was taking from 26 to 25 and the damage never changed based on the height disparity between him and I. Either way, if Thick Skin activates three times, and weapon and shield bonuses are stacking, without knowing his entire loadout and the bonuses on his weapons and shield, Trick's explanation might account for the player's damage reduction.

Thanks for all of this info. Now it's super clear why you're implementing the DR changes the way you are.

So with the new changes, the maximum DR that a player can have will be:

Thick Skinned (50) + Shield (12) + Weapon (5) = 67% for at most 3 seconds?

Based on that example (those being the only damage reduction bonuses on the player's whole loadout), that shouldn't last 3 seconds (syphon procs just restore shield, they don't begin the recharging process). If the player had the shield that recharged in 2.7 seconds, then for the .3 seconds remaining on Thick Skin, assuming you never shot him, and was reloading at that time, the player would have that 67% damage reduction, but only for 1 shot (stops the shield from recharging). Then the next few shots until Thick Skin is over (and the player is still reloading) they would have 55%, then 5% until the reload finishes. So, with all legendary equipment and legendary bonuses, and a shield that begins to recharge in 2.7 seconds (fastest in the game), the maximum would be Thick Skin (50%) + Shield (12%) + Weapon (12% from mastery) + Machinist Synergy (5%)? = 79%. Only obtainable while reloading, as the shield is recharging during the last .3 seconds of Thick Skin, and only for 1 shot.

Thank you for the thorough explanation Trick! I agree with Chili, it is very clear why you are implementing this change. I'm now pretty excited to play around with it and come up with new strategies, and especially to not play against people with MechaGodzilla levels of damage reduction.

[Vikingkid3]

And this is a problem why? Why should adding a synergy disable the mastery bonus or vice versa? Getting a bonus on an item that disables your bonuses on other items or makes your perks useless is not a bonus. If Dark Matter complains, you can send them my way and I'll explain it to them.

That is a good point for clarification. Weapon bonuses should not stack, and definitely not stack on themselves, but will a weapon's mastery trump a synergy bonus or vice versa? Or will the synergy and mastery stack? And, if they don't stack, will the new system that will be changing weapon bonuses prevent a situation where you could have a useless roll because of the synergy (i.e. DR while reloading synergy and DR while reloading mastery)?

[TigrisMorte]

...If you were able to reproduce, then they, also, should be able.

Procreation is a serious decision. It should not be reduced to, "If they can I get too!"

[Proscrub]

So, some details on things that are broken due to various stacking bugs:

It is possible to get Thick Skinned to trigger three times causing a 9 second armor boost rather than a 3 second armor boost. This is due to the trigger for the boost having poor stacking settings. (This issue we are actively investigating as separate matter.)

Additionally, the legendary weapon mastery for less damage while reloading (12%) can stack with the synergy bonus for less damage while reloading (5%). (Additionally, there is an edge case to get this synergy bonus to actually stack twice, providing a 10% total bonus.)

Combined with a short recharge delay shield and the less damage while recharging legendary shield bonus (12%) and cellular armor (6%), it is possible to have a few combinations which result in a consistent ~35% damage resistance bonus. (Or greater.)

The mastery bonus on the weapon stacking with the synergy which can then stack on itself really skew the results. (There are also a few times in the videos that In The Trenches and just normal weapon falloff come into effect, but predominantly we're seeing the unfortunate results of poor effect stacking.)

The damage reduction stacking update will not solve every problem seen by every player, it will however solve most of the witnessed issues and open up future perk, weapon, and shield functionality. With a reliable core set of rules, damage resistance becomes a mechanic that can be built upon for greater strategy and variety rather than the target of an endless series of exploits.

Oh so now its an exploit. You guys are really showing that you know nothing about the game even though you design it. Its pathetic and outrageous that it took you this long to acknowledge something was indeed broken. Just a few weeks ago you told the PvP player base that it would be unfair to punish the player because he knew the (now broken) mechanics of the game and that everything is working as intended and to basically learn 2 play. It's probably a little late now since most people have left pvp, and the ones who did stay, you spit in their face when you told them everything was fine.

[LITTLE B1RD]

Procreation is a serious decision. It should not be reduced to, "If they can I get too!"

OOOH! I felt the BURN.

It was a good burn, though, like a tattoo.

[Crystal Kitty]

Does anyone else get really sad reading the Devs answer (more so, the not knowing whats going on)

"no bugs to fix"

"what bugs"

"stacking bugs"

"were not aware of any bugs"


its like a new answer every hour lol

[N3gativeCr33p]

Almost kind of reminds me of people changing their forum name every hour/day to avoid the ban hammer.

[Crystal Kitty]

Almost kind of reminds me of people changing their forum name every hour/day to avoid the ban hammer.

For real....as flip floppity as it gets!

[N3gativeCr33p]

For real....as flip floppity as it gets!

Leave it to you to actually know... Krazy Karen, Crystal Kitty, or whatever it is you're calling yourself this week.

[Sahfiel]

I'm going to just be honest as a game developer and rational thinking person capable of critical thinking, problem solving/using opposable thumbs and say bluntly that this is a -stupid- decision in regard to balance.

I wish I could diagnose via socratic method why developers come up with this type of plan but I find it easiest to believe it arises from being confined to your own heads and trapped in your own ideas without second guessing possibly horrible repurcussions to the rippling fluid surface of gameplay.

1. The melee swords have no way of being viable especially with shoddy damage bonuses and (not future) shoddy defensive bonuses. Even with both, they have no way to shine amongst guns.
2. These new formulae will give even less sense of reward to players as they spend time due to gaining less and less damage resistance. The first hours of gameplay will curve then pop off too early like a firecracker or a premature... leaving the players unsatisfied. As they play a game for some time, they expect to die less quickly to the basic enemy goons.
3. Players will simply complain about dying too quickly. Doubly so. Not only will players with the perks take more damage tan they used to, but do you think they will simply leave the useless perks there? No! They will put in dps perks and so dps will effectively double. That means people will have a much much higher dps and everyone will die faster, leaving the player unsatisfied yet again. This will put time to kill in line with games such as COD, which excel at being COD better than this game will because they are in fact themselves. Players will pick the best option for an experience and if the game plays like a shoddy cod, they will pick cod instead.

First the warframe devs make stupid balancing choices, now you? Do they put things in the water at gamescom? XD
Not trying to be offensive or anything, just being honest because I think people need blunt people to give them wake up calls when they have bad ideas. Scratch that. Terrible ideas. As a developer, I can think of at -least- 10 better ways to implement a balance around damage resistance mechanic.