Banned ?

[williamarmistace]

...

I'm not as harsh as you Mr. Wyler. The shield re-sell glitch was an obvious and deliberate exploit. What Lemur is describing is more of a murky water, some did it out of ignorance and some did it as an exploit. Your right, that ignorance of the law is not an excuse, but sometimes ignorance determines the motive for breaking the law, as is, was it intentional or not? This often determines the punishment. I don't know for sure, but it seems that Trion did not consider whether people did this intentionally or not in doling out their punishment. If I'm wrong in that assumption, then I'll stand corrected. If not, then a lot of people got the shaft here that did not deserve it, because they did not deliberately break a law.

[Nefarious]

Your character is tainted by your use of exploits. There can be no excuses.

I know.

Yours might be to.

A lot of players characters are.

But no one wants to admit it.

And when and if they get caught they don't like it.

I don't have that problem.

[The Lemur God]

I am sure there are several players in the same boat - they just logged into the game minding their own business, don't go on the forums or look at the web site much, and suddenly, they come across a vendor that is offering untold riches (so to speak). So they go ahead, without questioning, and make a few million scrip off the vendor. Now they get their timeout and loose all the scrip. However, there is an old adage:

Ignorance of the law is no excuse.

It sucks to be them, but sometimes one has to learn a lesson the hard way. Now, perhaps in the future, when something like this occurs, they will question why the vendor is doing what it is doing and err on the side of caution until they are told it is either OK or not OK to do something. The school of hardknocks - it's not always a bad thing. And truth be told, this is a fairly light punishment - I have seen other games punish players far worse for much less.

That could be one of the very reasons why this punishment amounts to nothing more than a slap on the wrist. This is the first time that such a mass "wave" of bannings have really hit the game, or at least come to the forefront. As for all those people using other examples of what may or may not be exploits - that is up to Trion to decide, as well as what they will eventually do about it. Cry hypocritical all you want, but again, other games have done similar things in the past. So all it comes down to is play with common sense - when something appears to be different in game, perhaps you should question it first before blindly jumping in again .... and again .... and again .... and again .... and again .... see where I am going with this?

People speed when they are driving all the time. I know I do it (sometimes, not always, ahh well only once in a great while ;P), but what happens when I ... I mean they they finally get pulled over. They still get punished. Doesn't matter how many times they got away with it in the past, or how many people are speeding by while the cop writes you the ticket, you just have to accept the consequences of your actions, no matter how many times you got away with it previously. And just because millions of people get away with speeding every day doesn't give someone a free pass to go steal their neighbor's lawn furniture.

The old adage would apply if people were doing something the game did not provide as a resource. To be ignorant of something it has to exist in the first place. No where is it written that its against Defiance law to sell an item in a vendor no matter how much it pays for it. There are different vendors throughout that sell for different prices. In this case there was finally a vendor that paid what the game put as the value in the top right corner instead of only a fraction. The game put the vendor in. It was given to us not made by us, there was no law here. Every example you listed has one thing in common, a law. Trion never said "hey everyone we are going to make a vendor that sells for what we put is the value of your weapon in your inventory and you are not allowed to use it or its against the law" and us being ignorant didnt know. Sorry but your argument here is false. This is a totally different case. When i speed there are speed limits posted and i choose to break the law and risk getting caught. Whats next, I pull three legendary weapons from the IDR lock box and now im in violation of the game mechanics because its supposed to only give me one? BS.

[BJWyler]

I'm not as harsh as you Mr. Wyler. The shield re-sell glitch was an obvious and deliberate exploit. What Lemur is describing is more of a murky water, some did it out of ignorance and some did it as an exploit. Your right, that ignorance of the law is not an excuse, but sometimes ignorance determines the motive for breaking the law, as is, was it intentional or not? This often determines the punishment. I don't know for sure, but it seems that Trion did not consider whether people did this intentionally or not in doling out their punishment. If I'm wrong in that assumption, then I'll stand corrected. If not, then a lot of people got the shaft here that did not deserve it, because they did not deliberately break a law.

But the thing is there are a great many people who didn't use the exploit in any manner. I am not a fan of zero tolerance rules, but in some instances they are necessary. Again, it gets back to the whole hard lessons learned thing. I think everyone here should be fortunate that this lesson only needed to be learned in a game where the consequences are relatively meaningless in the grand scheme of the Real World, and in the scope of the game itself, the punishment is still relatively mild. In other games, perma-bans would have been handed out.

[Holy Bahamut3]

The old adage would apply if people were doing something the game did not provide as a resource. To be ignorant of something it has to exist in the first place. No where is it written that its against Defiance law to sell an item in a vendor no matter how much it pays for it. There are different vendors throughout that sell for different prices. In this case there was finally a vendor that paid what the game put as the value in the top right corner instead of only a fraction. The game put the vendor in. It was given to us not made by us, there was no law here. Every example you listed has one thing in common, a law. Trion never said "hey everyone we are going to make a vendor that sells for what we put is the value of your weapon in your inventory and you are not allowed to use it or its against the law" and us being ignorant didnt know. Sorry but your argument here is false. This is a totally different case. When i speed there are speed limits posted and i choose to break the law and risk getting caught. Whats next, I pull three legendary weapons from the IDR lock box and now im in violation of the game mechanics because its supposed to only give me one? BS.

You pulled three?! Wow I need to go to IDR more often. Or was that a hypothetical?

[vizibledog]

I know.

Then I'm sure you also realise any credibility you or your character had in the game is gone as people know you use exploits/cheats to further your character.

[williamarmistace]

But the thing is there are a great many people who didn't use the exploit in any manner. I am not a fan of zero tolerance rules, but in some instances they are necessary. Again, it gets back to the whole hard lessons learned. I think everyone should be fortunate here that this lesson only needed to be learned in a game where the consequences are relatively meaningless in the grand scheme of the Real World, and in the scope of the game itself, the punishment is still relatively mild. In other games, perma-bans would have been handed out.

Those perma-ban games must be run by North Korea or something. Damn.

But why did you not sell anything (i.e., use the exploit) to the EL vendor? Did you know something was immediately wrong? Was it obvious? Or maybe you just didn't try to sell anything to the EL vendor?

[BJWyler]

The old adage would apply if people were doing something the game did not provide as a resource. To be ignorant of something it has to exist in the first place. No where is it written that its against Defiance law to sell an item in a vendor no matter how much it pays for it. There are different vendors throughout that sell for different prices. In this case there was finally a vendor that paid what the game put as the value in the top right corner instead of only a fraction. The game put the vendor in. It was given to us not made by us, there was no law here. Every example you listed has one thing in common, a law. Trion never said "hey everyone we are going to make a vendor that sells for what we put is the value of your weapon in your inventory and you are not allowed to use it or its against the law" and us being ignorant didnt know. Sorry but your argument here is false. This is a totally different case. When i speed there are speed limits posted and i choose to break the law and risk getting caught. Whats next, I pull three legendary weapons from the IDR lock box and now im in violation of the game mechanics because its supposed to only give me one? BS.

I disagree. Because, above all, one must play a game with common sense, and there are many examples throughout the years of game devs doing this very thing - the punishments are nothing new, nor are the excuses used by those who were caught.

Sorry, but the only thing on Trion was implementing a feature with a bug. However, in my 30+ years of playing games (and making a couple homebrews myself), that is SOP in the world of coding and software. What is also SOP is the punishment of players that take advantage of an obvious exploit - that is on the players. As a player, it is our responsibility to report a glitch/bug when we find it, and then NOT CONTINUE TO USE SAID EXPLOIT.

When you find a $20 bill on the ground, and have no idea who it belongs to, then it's finders keepers. However, when you see a trail of $20 bills and they lead up to an armored car, but you still take them and do not say anything - expect to be punished when you are caught.

The first clue is that it is a vendor that pays full retail (or more) when you sell something to him. No other vendor in the game does that - heck no other vendor in any game I have ever played has ever done that.

The second clue - this "feature" was not touted as being part of the vendor in any mention of the vendor by Trion. The vendor was put in place to allow us to buy unique Extra Life themed items with unique stats. Nothing more nothing less.

Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out something is not quite right. Therefore, common sense would dictate that the issue be reported to Trion and wait for confirmation on whether this is a bug or intended. Appears to me that most players took this option, and therefore were not punished because they didn't exploit the game.

[Nefarious]

Then I'm sure you also realise any credibility you or your character had in the game is gone as people know you use exploits/cheats to further your character.

Yeah that's cool. But if you ever done anything "bad" yourself then don't deny it or try to spin it. Own up to it. Seems like the trend with this whole EL Dealer thing is that the exploiters caught are blaming Trion. They should blame themselves.

[TAG]

The old adage would apply if people were doing something the game did not provide as a resource. To be ignorant of something it has to exist in the first place. No where is it written that its against Defiance law to sell an item in a vendor no matter how much it pays for it. There are different vendors throughout that sell for different prices. In this case there was finally a vendor that paid what the game put as the value in the top right corner instead of only a fraction. The game put the vendor in. It was given to us not made by us, there was no law here. Every example you listed has one thing in common, a law. Trion never said "hey everyone we are going to make a vendor that sells for what we put is the value of your weapon in your inventory and you are not allowed to use it or its against the law" and us being ignorant didnt know. Sorry but your argument here is false. This is a totally different case. When i speed there are speed limits posted and i choose to break the law and risk getting caught. Whats next, I pull three legendary weapons from the IDR lock box and now im in violation of the game mechanics because its supposed to only give me one? BS.

Some people just get it grats to you .