PVP/PVE Separation

[Steel Fire]

Fixed loadouts is great for e-sports where the idea is to make sure it is only skill and strategy that determines the victors. Defiance should venture down that road.

I also get a kick out of the logic I see people throw around that fixing something that's OP in PvP somehow "ruins" PvE. FYI, if a build is OP in PvP it most certainly would be OP in PvE, if it's actually worthwhile in PvE at all. PvE is against AI... AI that's about as smart as a box of rocks.

[Mythos Autarkis]

cloak (well mostly perma cloak) is definately OP as it is now, the idea of going into cooldown after a shot is fired is nice and still leaves it usefull also it was that way it was when the game launched if I remember corectly (could be wrong on this point).

as for the set loadouts, I can see both sides of that argument:

the first side for it would be that in theory it would level the playing field and give new players a fair shot but in reality it wont because as im learning over the past couple of days since going from pve to pvp it's is a bit bigger learning curve than i thought ;P so veterans will still be owning everyone left and right and the new players will just stop queing up.

and now the against argument would go a little something like this: I have been playing since day 1, trading /farming/key grinding my butt off for nice gear. now that I have this nice gear I started playing pvp knowing that I have a realy nice version of said weapons/shields/nades to help make up for my lack of experiance and give me atleast a slim shot of finishing my pvp goals to continue leveling. with out these nice weapons I wouldnt even bother trying pvp.

in the end, the nature of the gaming scene as it is now almost is sure to tick off one group or the other as it is not realisticly possible to find a perfect balance.

[tD Showdown]

Fixed loadouts is great for e-sports where the idea is to make sure it is only skill and strategy that determines the victors. Defiance should venture down that road.

I also get a kick out of the logic I see people throw around that fixing something that's OP in PvP somehow "ruins" PvE. FYI, if a build is OP in PvP it most certainly would be OP in PvE, if it's actually worthwhile in PvE at all. PvE is against AI... AI that's about as smart as a box of rocks.

Yeah these PvE players complain about PvP ruining PvE like PvE is super hard or something, like arkfalls are really a challenge... I mean all youre doing is shooting a rock...

[Bane_Of_Legends]

cloak (well mostly perma cloak) is definately OP as it is now, the idea of going into cooldown after a shot is fired is nice and still leaves it usefull also it was that way it was when the game launched if I remember corectly (could be wrong on this point).

as for the set loadouts, I can see both sides of that argument:

the first side for it would be that in theory it would level the playing field and give new players a fair shot but in reality it wont because as im learning over the past couple of days since going from pve to pvp it's is a bit bigger learning curve than i thought ;P so veterans will still be owning everyone left and right and the new players will just stop queing up.

and now the against argument would go a little something like this: I have been playing since day 1, trading /farming/key grinding my butt off for nice gear. now that I have this nice gear I started playing pvp knowing that I have a realy nice version of said weapons/shields/nades to help make up for my lack of experiance and give me atleast a slim shot of finishing my pvp goals to continue leveling. with out these nice weapons I wouldnt even bother trying pvp.

in the end, the nature of the gaming scene as it is now almost is sure to tick off one group or the other as it is not realisticly possible to find a perfect balance.

Agreed with cloak being OP. I use cloak and even I think it's OP. I'm cool with it being nerfed.

I have to disagree with the second part though. Having set loadouts for a game would make it so that newer players CAN compare to older players. It's all based on skill. Those who don't play many shooters can't expect to do great, but they'll at least manage to hold their own. Those who do play many shooters will fall into the lingo very quickly. Take games like Halo, CoD, Killzone, Battlefield, etc. New players can go into those, get set up with default classes, and if they have skill, they'll easily trump other newer players, and even some older players with decked out classes. The gap between default classes and player made classes isn't so wide that the player made classes would trump default classes all the time. In games with well made PvP, you throw two people with the same class in a ring together, and it's nothing BUT skill, while if you put a person with default class against someone with their own custom class, it's 80% skill and 20% equipment. That's what Defiance needs to aim for. PvP that is more tailored towards skill, and not class setup. I'm not saying get rid of all custom classes. I'm saying reduce the huge gap between newer player classes and older player classes.

I know the people that grinded their butts off for legendary big boomers, cankers, and surge bolters won't be happy with the nerfs that are needed for those and other guns, and PvP as a whole, to make PvP a more level playing field. But hey, it's either give the new players some way to make up for their lack of equipment with their skill, or keep fighting the same people over and over till they get tired of the game, leave, and you'll never get the number of players to even start a PvP match again.

Btw Mythos, not calling you out or anything. Just saw your post as a point where I could give my input.

[Mythos Autarkis]

Btw Mythos, not calling you out or anything. Just saw your post as a point where I could give my input.

Forums are all about peoples opinions and in no way could I or should I take that as calling me out
But this would definately be something that we would have to agree to disagree on, I love some of the games you have mentioned that use the fixed loadouts but a huge part of defiance as a MMO is the grind for better gear wich makes this game completly diferant than the above mentioned games, limiting said gears use seems counter productive imo.
just my two cents,
Mythos

[Rincewind]

Maybe we just need two types of pvp.
Carebear and Arkhunter.
Sure, I use cloak but the majority of toons I kill also
use cloak. So what's the advantage that I have over
said toon?
My ego.
Full perk selection.
Good gear from grinding and trading.

I've put time into the game. So to me that's the true
advantage that I have.

[Mythos Autarkis]

Maybe we just need two types of pvp.
Carebear and Arkhunter.
Sure, I use cloak but the majority of toons I kill also
use cloak. So what's the advantage that I have over
said toon?
My ego.
Full perk selection.
Good gear from grinding and trading.

I've put time into the game. So to me that's the true
advantage that I have.

the 2 types of pvp might work

for the record ive seen you play rincewind and your good (and you killed me a few times ;P) but for all your imagined uber advantages that suposedly need to be stripped and put on a level playing field I managed to kill you a couple of times in my very first couple of pvp matchs the other day, all the more reason to leave it as is.
nothing was meant by that statement it just seemed easy to make my point,as your name stuck out as someone i have played against that most definately has more pvp experiance than my self
plus your Canadian too Eh!
Mythos

[overdosed]

Ok then I could care less for the pvp, I mostly do pve in Defiance and if i want to play a good pvp game I just go and play something else. That was a suggestion to make the game better as a whole, but i can see that the community could care less about that and would prefer to stick to the current flawed and broken iteration of things. You dont even suggest other ways to fix it, the only thing i hear is "shut up ive been here since day one and the game is fine".

And one more thing, how the **** did you all manage to start talking about a fair playing field?! That was just 1 sentence in a long ****ing post. The idea was to bring diversity in the things that players use by restrictions on some things and creating a more suitable version of the abilities for pvp.

[tD Showdown]

The problem isn't the community, suggestions don't matter because Devs do not give a **** about what we have to say. Plain and simple as that. They do what they think is the right thing, not what we want. We're the players, but they're the makers. We play by their rules, not vice versa. With that being said, I want to give a big **** you to Trion, dahanese has been a cool forums moderator, other then that, **** everything associated with this company. If anyone has the thought of Trion ever caring about this game, squash it. Heres one example ill just put out there: Why put a Mod lockbox that you pay REAL MONEY for just to get green mods. Does that sound like a company that cares? Lets look at Rockstar compared to trion. Servers were ****ed up for about 2 weeks, they compensate players with 500,000 in-game dollars for dealing with the issues. Think about it guys, what does trion do for you? A ****ty little 25% boost rate that hasn't happened in God knows how long. If I were any of you, id just stop wasting time and money on this game, because its just a scam. You'll have better luck somewhere else.

[Atticus Batman]

Pvp should be naked (no perks) and you are issued a pistol, shield, nade etc.

NOO! That would mean a naked Crixda! BAD BENTU! BAD! NNNOOOOOOOOOO NAKED CRIXDA OR BENTU!

Although stripping them of perks may work. As for cloak I do not use it for the damage bonus, I fire then cloak and retreat. I say leave cloak just lower or remove the damage bonus. Besides there ARE ways around cloak.

Decoy shows you cloaked peeps near it, and a BMG locks onto cloaked enemies. Just have a Bmg as your back up and if you think a cloaked person is around use the bmg and it WILL lock onto them. I use pyro nades and incinerators, because while a person is on fire you will see the fire effect EVEN if they cloak! I have tested it several times. Easiest way to see the proof is duel a friend, use a fire weapon on the friend then have them cloak while they are on fire. You will see the flames. Just follow the fire and destroy it or keep re-igniting it, before it goes out.