LGBT Stuff... Stahma/Kenya, Ulysses/Skevur.

[Lillith Valerian]

Comparing 'legally blind' people to gays is called a false equivalency, which is one of many logical fallacies used by someone who either doesn't have a grasp of the issue they're discussing, or are deliberately attempting to distort it.

'Legally blind' people (such as myself, who has the worst dioptre rating two optometrists have ever encountered) do not suffer random acts of violence for being blind, or routinely get discriminated against by policy. Attempting to compare the two is as absurd as requesting that people remain politely silent while they still suffer discrimination.

It's a modern day spin on the old 'loud uppity women / Jews / Blacks would be better off keeping quiet' that conservatives use as a form of passive resistance to progression, and it has absolute zero empirical truth value. If you find yourself getting irritated over progressive activism, you should take a long, reflective look within yourself. Instead of asking, 'why do they care so much' you should be asking 'why do *you* care that *they* care so much?'

Of course, the answer is going to require honesty that may not be possible.

[Bane_Of_Legends]

Percentage of LBGT in America (and I'm assuming it's similar around the world) is 3.8%. From what I can tell from watching TV and movies LBGT has a far, far bigger representation than 3.8%. There's hardly a single movie or TV show that doesn't have representation in some form.

On the other hand, 10% of people in the USA are legally blind. What kind of representation do you see in the movies for the blind? How about the deaf? How about other types of handicaps?

Personally, from the standpoint of a straight male, LGBT seems way, way over represented in the American media.

For the record, I'm a hardcore libertarian and I don't give a rat's backside what anyone does with their sexual organs assuming they're doing it with another consenting adult.

I can assure you that there is substantially more LBGT people than 3.8% of the American population.
I read the statistics as well and I can tell you why they got that number.

You see they did statistics for each state. Well, each state either has it legal or illegal.
The legality of what you're doing would obviously effect the kind of information you give to a government affiliated institution.
Also to take into consideration, think about all the LGBT people that stay "in the closet" for fear of discrimination and abuse.
And finally account for all the people that didn't choose to, or refused to, take part in their government sponsored survey.
I wonder for whatever reason... *wink wink*

Coming from a guy who lives in the state that got a somewhat low score at 2.9%, I can say with 100% certainty that of all the people I have met, a great GREAT deal more than 2.9% were LGBT, and a great GREAT deal less than 97.1% were purely straight.
This is also coming from a guy who has had more people than he can remotely remember come to him and "come out of the closet" for their first time, either for comfort and reassurance or as a means for them to practice how they'll come out to their parents, extended family, public, etc. It's much easier to confess to someone you know that isn't judgemental, than it is to confess to an entire nation. I doubt even a quarter of the LGBT people that I know have come fully out of the closet to the public, and while that's a statistic based from my brain alone, which isn't anywhere near NASA-worthy, I wouldn't be surprised at all if that quarter was actually correct.

Do you see the blind and deaf being discriminated against? Do you see them being beaten and called sick names just because they're blind and deaf? You can go anywhere and see a man in a wheelchair reaching for something on a top shelf get assistance from someone with enough common courtesy to ask if he needs any. You can't go anywhere and see absolutely no discrimination against LGBT people. It's always religion, or politics, or self-righteousness, or some other idiotic reason getting in the way of fellow human beings getting the rights that every other human being has.

I do respect and thank you for not being an against-LGBT snob.

[Bonehead]

Comparing 'legally blind' people to gays is called a false equivalency, which is one of many logical fallacies used by someone who either doesn't have a grasp of the issue they're discussing, or are deliberately attempting to distort it.

'Legally blind' people (such as myself, who has the worst dioptre rating two optometrists have ever encountered) do not suffer random acts of violence for being blind, or routinely get discriminated against by policy. Attempting to compare the two is as absurd as requesting that people remain politely silent while they still suffer discrimination.

It's a modern day spin on the old 'loud uppity women / Jews / Blacks would be better off keeping quiet' that conservatives use as a form of passive resistance to progression, and it has absolute zero empirical truth value. If you find yourself getting irritated over progressive activism, you should take a long, reflective look within yourself. Instead of asking, 'why do they care so much' you should be asking 'why do *you* care that *they* care so much?'

Of course, the answer is going to require honesty that may not be possible.

^^^gold star^^^

[Bonehead]

I can assure you that there is substantially more LBGT people than 3.8% of the American population.
I read the statistics as well and I can tell you why they got that number.

You see they did statistics for each state. Well, each state either has it legal or illegal.
The legality of what you're doing would obviously effect the kind of information you give to a government affiliated institution.
Also to take into consideration, think about all the LGBT people that stay "in the closet" for fear of discrimination and abuse.
And finally account for all the people that didn't choose to, or refused to, take part in their government sponsored survey.
I wonder for whatever reason... *wink wink*

Coming from a guy who lives in the state that got a somewhat low score at 2.9%, I can say with 100% certainty that of all the people I have met, a great GREAT deal more than 2.9% were LGBT, and a great GREAT deal less than 97.1% were purely straight.
This is also coming from a guy who has had more people than he can remotely remember come to him and "come out of the closet" for their first time, either for comfort and reassurance or as a means for them to practice how they'll come out to their parents, extended family, public, etc. It's much easier to confess to someone you know that isn't judgemental, than it is to confess to an entire nation. I doubt even a quarter of the LGBT people that I know have come fully out of the closet to the public, and while that's a statistic based from my brain alone, which isn't anywhere near NASA-worthy, I wouldn't be surprised at all if that quarter was actually correct.

Do you see the blind and deaf being discriminated against? Do you see them being beaten and called sick names just because they're blind and deaf? You can go anywhere and see a man in a wheelchair reaching for something on a top shelf get assistance from someone with enough common courtesy to ask if he needs any. You can't go anywhere and see absolutely no discrimination against LGBT people. It's always religion, or politics, or self-righteousness, or some other idiotic reason getting in the way of fellow human beings getting the rights that every other human being has.

I do respect and thank you for not being an against-LGBT snob.

^^^another gold star ^^^

[cypheon]

while this is a good topic for an honest and open discussion........

why didn't we have this topic months ago when the episode(s) had just aired and it was fresh on everyones mind...?

other than that one question i have nothing to add that's of value. what you do in your bedroom has absolutely no effect on what i do in mine, and that statement -should- work both ways (sadly, currently, it doesn't, but we're trying to fix that)

[Elastik Spastik]

People are gay, people are straight, people are disabled (me), people are obese, people are thin, people are different races, people have different religions etc etc. At the end of the day we are all people. We are all the same. But still everyone in these categories gets discriminated against by someone or other. It's everywhere and aimed at all kinds of people from all walks of life.

[Silent Night]

I can't believe this is actually a conversation.

+1 hahahahaha

[Umfafa]

That is why the conversation came up, because people still can't believe these things, like its not 2013 etc.. I'm not LBGT but i have friends that are and yeah they feel demonized too, just look at the media to see why.


That there is the problem and what pisses them off..honestly if you didn't care, you wouldn't give a damn about loud or quiet.

No, really. How many times have I explained how much I love (that used to say v ag in al) intercourse to you? (I'm male).

Exactly. Just suck what you want, and shush!

[Bakku]

The Bioman didn't have sex with anyone on the show. I seen ever episode twice thus far and never saw this.

We didn't see it, thankfully (unlike Datak and Stahma's quicky during the election >.>). It was, however, mentioned that Skevur was the "object of the bioman's affections" or something like that, it was made pretty clear, but still rushed past. Which, honestly, I'm thankful for, because as I tried to say I am more upset about gay characters being demonized than I am about them not being more common. I don't want plenty of gay characters in entertainment if they're all going to be sadistic monsters and/or pathetic vermin to be kicked around or killed off.


@ Percentages of gay people.

That seems wrong... I had always thought it was closer to 10%, but who knows? All I know is that the MAJORITY of the gay/bi people I know or have known have been in the closet and/or in complete denial. I came out when I was 15, and all I'll say is that while I was the only "out" gay guy at my high school I was NOT the only guy who was into guys. It sucked, honestly, knowing that there were others like me but they refused to stand up and say so. Some have dated girls, some even married women, and continue to view their "deviant interests" as something to be ashamed of and kept secret. Something like eight of the ten or so guys who I've "almost dated" have been closeted, and that's not okay with me, for a 20-30 year old man to be lying to himself, his family and his friends about who he likes/loves, that's unacceptable to me. I'll admit that is mostly on the guys for not being strong enough to be honest, but it's also partially on society and entertainment for making them feel like they CAN'T be honest.

ANYWAY.

I will also admit that this thread probably shouldn't have happened. It was a result of many things building up, making me focus in on the terrible representation of gay men via Ulysses/Skevur. It does annoy me, but I don't think I was right to bring it to the forums, because nothing good could possibly come of it. I really didn't intend to make anyone feel uncomfortable or create a "scene", sometimes we just need to vent and we don't choose the best place to do it. Would I like to see a positively portrayed gay couple in scifi one of these days? Heckyes. Do I want them in every show with make-out or sex scenes every episode? No. If it's going to be excessive and TRY to offend people, that's not something I want. It's not like I want Nolan to be gay, or Tommy or Datak or Alak, just a side-character, as "important" to the story as Skevur or Ulysses without being as blatantly immoral.

[Umfafa]

...making me focus in on the terrible representation of gay men via Ulysses/Skevur. It does annoy me...

As for Stahma....she was furthering Stahma's interests. I didn't look deeper into the forbidding social stratum than that. Stahma needed out, and she took the easiest path. So she had to finger someone in a bath tub. Who hasn't done that.

Really? It's a TV show dude.

LOLLICOPTER.

(Edit: Actually laughing my *** off at this thread). First time LMAO has applied on the interwebs.