Warmaster Guide

[Midori Oku]

I looking into it, along with grenades (I'm thinking Bio if it works on the boss), but I'm still trying to figure out how to do it concisely - I feel the logic I laid out in the other post is too long. In addition to that many people don't have a choice as to which nano they can use - because they just pick their highest DPS weapon and w/e nano it has is what they get. That said, what would you like to see me add/talk about?

I know not everyone has a much of a choice, but for the people those people who do it wouldn't hurt for them to be listed for what's useful and what's not.

You could do something like the following for example:

Useful Nano:
1: Radiation - Adds 20% overall damage (one proc applies for the whole group)
etc.......

Basically just tell how they are useful, and explain why you should avoid others if possible. I still need to get someone online to try and test the radiation stacking. I'm sure you will want to test it out yourself though. If it actually works it would be extremely useful (not that it already isn't) to use radiation if possible

[Market]

wow that's crazy. I haven't had the chance to see this yet, but if I get in a situation where I think I could observe it I will look for it - thanks for the heads up.

My pleasure. The more that know, the better!

[Nilxain]

I know not everyone has a much of a choice, but for the people those people who do it wouldn't hurt for them to be listed for what's useful and what's not.

You could do something like the following for example:

Useful Nano:
1: Radiation - Adds 20% overall damage (one proc applies for the whole group)
etc.......

Basically just tell how they are useful, and explain why you should avoid others if possible. I still need to get someone online to try and test the radiation stacking. I'm sure you will want to test it out yourself though. If it actually works it would be extremely useful (not that it already isn't) to use radiation if possible

I added a link to the nano guide under "weapons" and made a note that nano effects the whole group :-) If you notice that something is still not covered let me know and I'll add it.

[alienstookmybeer]

This is one of the reasons why I think crits don't effect his armor.

Originally I was going to recommend that everyone uses a Typhoon and just attack his health, but after doing it myself for a while and watching other people do it too I realized that this was actually lowering our chances at a kill for several reasons.

In trying to figure out how to say this without just babbling on and on I will just say that: I was in several groups where maybe 30-50% of the group was using explosive weapons to circumvent his armor and none of those groups seemed to be doing any significant damage to his health - while also not breaking his armor very quickly. So far it seems like the rate at which his armor breaks is directly related to the speed of the kill.

*snip*

In short, given all of the factors it's better to use high DPS weapons over Volge weapons.

The best weapon to use initially would be whatever removes the crystal armor the fastest. The highest dps numbers we see against the armored spots are from the Volge weapons because they're getting bonus damage from crit hits. I don't know that there's been enough observation yet to say for sure that those damage number are NOT being applied to the armor. If they are, then people using the Volge weapons are probably helping break the armor off faster than those that aren't. But like you said, trying to test anything would be very difficult with the arkfall setup and it's instancing (and the ridiculous amount of damage the armor can take before breaking).

[Nilxain]

The best weapon to use initially would be whatever removes the crystal armor the fastest. The highest dps numbers we see against the armored spots are from the Volge weapons because they're getting bonus damage from crit hits. I don't know that there's been enough observation yet to say for sure that those damage number are NOT being applied to the armor. If they are, then people using the Volge weapons are probably helping break the armor off faster than those that aren't. But like you said, trying to test anything would be very difficult with the arkfall setup and it's instancing (and the ridiculous amount of damage the armor can take before breaking).

See here's the kicker, in order to crit 100% of the time you have to shoot his hand; yet his shoulder always breaks first. I reason that this means one of two things: either his armor always breaks in the same order no matter what you shoot (possible - and the most likely IMO), or the people who are doing the white damage and hitting his shoulder (the larger target) are doing more damage to the armor than the people hitting his hand for crits (also possible).

If the case is that the shoulder armor breaks first because that's what people are hitting, leading to the previous statement about why it takes so long for the rest to break once everyone is crit'ing; then where you hit effects if the armor breaks or not. And you can't crit on the armor, which means the crits would not be breaking the armor. This may be able to be proven, if we can kill the WM without breaking the second half (or if we can break the second half first). However, breaking the second half doesn't prove the converse unless all conditions are known :-(

If it's the case that it always breaks in the same order regardless of where you hit, then the reasoning still stands that you can't crit the armor, therefor it is likely that crits don't count toward the armor. And it would seem like the armor has a total health pool that is broken as you do damage to the armor - which is what I think it is, and could also lead to the previous statement about why it takes so long for the rest to break once everyone is crit'ing.

It is also possible that a portion of the damage goes to breaking armor whether it's a crit or not, no matter where you hit. If this is the case then: what size is that portion and is it bigger than just directly doing white damage? Since this portion could logically be any number then it's kind of like answering the question, "how many licks does it take to get to the center of a Tootsie pop?" lol. I don't think this one is the case, but I don't have enough information to know for sure - if this were true you would think that the armor would break in short order after the crit'ing begins.

This is where I would love to have a highly active "raiding guild" because we could controllingly flood a few WMs with 40+ people and all volge weapons, without confusing any PUGs as to what the best strategy is and inflaming the nerf posts, to try and decisively prove it one way or the other. But as it stand, the information we have points to it being counter productive, and I just don't think we have any evidence at this point that crit'ing damages the armor.

[maverick07]

I know not everyone has a much of a choice, but for the people those people who do it wouldn't hurt for them to be listed for what's useful and what's not.

You could do something like the following for example:

Useful Nano:
1: Radiation - Adds 20% overall damage (one proc applies for the whole group)
etc.......

Basically just tell how they are useful, and explain why you should avoid others if possible. I still need to get someone online to try and test the radiation stacking. I'm sure you will want to test it out yourself though. If it actually works it would be extremely useful (not that it already isn't) to use radiation if possible

Radiation does stack. Or at least it did the last time I tested it. Me and a friend got it to stack twice in testing on Elite Visceras. And I believe Radiation adds 25% too .

I also agree on Damage Spikes being essential but a few Ammo and Protection Spikes (if those are useful lol have to test) thrown in with the Damage Spikes could help. For not having to head back to the ammo crate to fill those thirsty guns that go through the ammo fast. As for Protection Spikes they could really help to keep people up in the fight if the DR they give is high enough. Need to test it though.

[Nilxain]

Radiation does stack. Or at least it did the last time I tested it. Me and a friend got it to stack twice in testing on Elite Visceras.

Ok, I'll add radiation as the Top nano pick to my guide then (and probably even switch weapons myself). I will probably test it in the future too just to make sure I'm telling people the correct stuff, but atm your word is good enough for me - you've got street cred lol :-)

And I believe Radiation adds 25% too .

I'm pretty sure Trick said it was a 20% increase, but he does get thing's wrong sometimes. My attention is split atm so if anyone want to verify this with testing I would much appreciate it.

[N3gativeCr33p]

this guide is usless to 360 players. he beat it on the pc beta where the warmaster was weak

So what's your point? I was giving the guy props on the strategy that he shared.

BTW... your sig isn't cool.

[Midori Oku]

Ok, I'll add radiation as the Top nano pick to my guide then (and probably even switch weapons myself). I will probably test it in the future too just to make sure I'm telling people the correct stuff, but atm your word is good enough for me - you've got street cred lol :-)


I'm pretty sure Trick said it was a 20% increase, but he does get thing's wrong sometimes. My attention is split atm so if anyone want to verify this with testing I would much appreciate it.

Ok, so on Volge troopers I do 2958 on a normal crit without radiation. Once it inflicts I hit 3698. With that said, it's not a 20% increase, it's a 25%. :O

2958 x 0.25 = 739.5
2958 + 739.5 = 3697.5 (So I guess the game rounds up)

A 20% increase would end up like this:
2958 x 0.20 = 591.6
2958+591.6 = 3549.6

The 25% increase is also the case without critical hits.

Damage = 423
Damage with radiation inflicted = 528 (Although this one rounded down. However, I may have just been at the point of falloff starting to apply, reducing the damage by 1 point. Anyway, close enough! :P)

These results are actually very surprised about these results!

[Nilxain]

Ok, so on Volge troopers I do 2958 on a normal crit without radiation. Once it inflicts I hit 3698. With that said, it's not a 20% increase, it's a 25%. :O

2958 x 0.25 = 739.5
2958 + 739.5 = 3697.5 (So I guess the game rounds up)

A 20% increase would end up like this:
2958 x 0.20 = 591.6
2958+591.6 = 3549.6

The 25% increase is also the case without critical hits.

Damage = 423
Damage with radiation inflicted = 528 (Although this one rounded down. However, I may have just been at the point of falloff starting to apply, reducing the damage by 1 point. Anyway, close enough! :P)

These results are actually very surprised about these results!

I'm pretty sure that the multiple random and large damage jumps that I'm getting are from players irradiating - this is definitely a much welcomed DPS increase - TYVM to everyone who is using them :-)