Not feeling the Warmaster Encounter (Ideas...)

[Deunan]

I can try rebut every point you made, in which you will tell me i'm completely wrong and it will go back and forth, i disagree with you on your min/max attitude to gaming, does that make either one of us wrong? no we like different aspects of the same game, i prefer a more casual approach to gaming, i don't enjoy math or being the best of the best of the best....i hate competitiveness and all that entails.

I don't have a min-maxing attitude about gaming. That's simply a broad and overreaching assumption on your part. I simply work with what the game provides and what can realistically be done in terms of new game content. Life gives you lemons, you make lemonade.

None of what's being proposed here can be implemented to be both challenging and successful for players. If it has a player capped aspect to it like the Warmaster with the current absence of any efficient in-game communication system and the total inability for any player or players to control attendance for an event paid for by their own resources it will fail fantastically.

I didn't even go into the fact that you can't even make most of the things that have been suggested viable with the current game mechanics but here's a few examples of many. The Decoy power is almost completely useless as a method of crowd control at a large event because the Decoy dies very quickly even with constant BMG support and you can only move it once. BMG's are weak healing weapons that are even more useless now with the introduction of healing stims. They desperately need an overhaul before they can become viable as anything more than an annoyance to the majority of players and a novelty weapon for dealing with multiple weak targets.

Being pigeon holed into one avenue is bad mechanics, really bad...

That's the whole point. It's a matter of mechanics. You can't address a change in the kind of content that should be introduced into the game if it can't be implemented successfully because of core aspects of the game's mechanics. Talking about these kinds of changes in content is putting the cart before the horse. The game needs a good chat/voice/communication system and an overhaul of significant aspects of core mechanics such as EGO powers, weapons and gear first. Unless and until that happens, these kinds of suggestions are just pie in the sky ideas that can't be implemented successfully in the game.

[Deunan]

So what you're saying is... "People are stupid, don't bother."?

I'm saying that in the context of an event that's player capped with little to no control over who attends and no meaningful way to communicate with one another this concept won't work. The only way you'll get enough players that are both competent enough and concerned enough to play all the different roles suggested and for those roles to be meaningful would be to raise the cap so high that the effect would be lost with all the rest of the players running around doing whatever which would make it look and feel no different than the rest of the mass PvE content in the game.

You're saying this encounter is working against the potential of the game but you're failing to address why this encounter is the only practical approach for implementing challenging PvE content. It's like trying to build a tower on a foundation that has a sinkhole underneath it.

[TRMC606]

Nice idea's, I'd have to quit defiance if they ever go that far. At the moment, all we have to do is equip a good DPS weapon and go for it. ALOT or players have a hard time understanding that (The boss fight is only 7 minutes).
Doesn't seem that hard to me, but, a lot of players have the same idea as OP, and join the boss fight, with a auto-shotgun... ...Are you serious??
How much dmg do you do anyway??

I love mmo bosses, but this terrible. Most mmo's, if you don't like how a instance works, or if you know your not going to pull your weight, you don't join.

Xbox EU is all about the auto-shotguns.. Oh, and fun. Yes, fun.

[Bakku]

You really are choosing to ignore the huge letters at the end of my original post? Really? Go back to page one, and try to understand why I made that last bit of text so damn big.

No where did I say that my suggestion was perfect or "the only practical approach for implementing challenging PvE content"... No where. I had fun and went for it, even writing up Cass and EGO's potential lines, but don't mistake excitement for arrogance.

I understand that, as things are, a lot of my ideas wouldn't work out perfectly. But those are the kinds of tweaks, that IMO, should happen to lay down the groundwork for a bright future in Defiance. And even if I'm "putting the cart before the horse" I at least know and am trying to show people what I think would be a nice looking cart that people would enjoy riding in.

(If I'm sounding frustrated it's because you're putting a lot of thought and effort into tearing down my ideas, when I made it clear that my ideas aren't the point of this thread. You're not really being at all constructive, but kind of being a pain in the ***, throwing snark and sarcasm left and right, belittling everyone, making it seem like the vast vast majority of players are simply chickens with their heads cut off, running around in circles while you laugh and make top damage... A BIG elitism vibe is rubbing off in your posts, not sure if you noticed that. Anyway. Yeah. That's about all I have to say.)

[Storm58]

...another reason the time limit needs to go away.

But if you take the time limit away, nobody will ever fail... I really, really, really need something to make me fail at this game.

Some things that could happen to make you happy (regarding this boss) would be to:
- lower his health and shields by half.
- make enemies spawn the ENTIRE time, not just towards the end. (Ramp up the spawns as it gets closer to the end)
- get rid of the time limit.
- add a pool of lives for the group. (say 15 or some other worked out number)

The above would award DPS players. It would award players that want to heal (and greatly I might add). It would award players that want to tank. Those that want to assist. It would help every type of player but still give a challenge that clans and groups and even randoms could co-op for.

Well what about the pooled lives? Well, as it stands now, you either win or lose as a group...

Sure, there are some things that could be worked out, like maybe each person has 2 or 3 lives instead of a pool... My goal was to just give an alternative and I think I've done that. Ideas?

[Bakku]

Glad to see more ideas, and yes, yours are definitely a bit more possible than creating new mechanics (like the bomb idea that I played around with). Of course, we're not the professionals, so we don't necessarily know everything that goes into balancing an encounter. All we can really do is give rough ideas of how things could be done better, leaving the very very detailed specifics up to those whose job it is to consider them.

I do think that separating the "encounter health pool" into Warmaster and tons of adds is a nice thought, it definitely allows for a wider range of weapons to be useful. Charge Blades, Infectors, Shotguns, etc. and a wider range of ego powers as well, even if they don't have as specific and obvious "tasks" as my idea gave, it still makes them less useless.

I don't LOVE the lives pool idea, but I don't love the idea of everyone having three lives either. Maybe just the self revive, then you can be "picked up" how ever many times you need, but there's no releasing allowed? Forcing people to get into the habit of helping each other up? I notice, even outside of the Warmaster, people seem to auto-release sometimes because they don't believe someone will take 5 seconds to spare them the scrip loss, and that's kind of sad to me.

[Storm58]

I don't LOVE the lives pool idea, but I don't love the idea of everyone having three lives either. Maybe just the self revive, then you can be "picked up" how ever many times you need, but there's no releasing allowed? Forcing people to get into the habit of helping each other up? I notice, even outside of the Warmaster, people seem to auto-release sometimes because they don't believe someone will take 5 seconds to spare them the scrip loss, and that's kind of sad to me.

Well, the lives are just a way to actually lose at the Warmaster encounter. Right now, it's time based and is very possible to lose. I like this idea. Other than a ridiculous 30 minute time limit for Arkfalls, there is no other way to actually lose in this game. I want there to be a risk vs. reward scenario in this game somewhere, somehow to give players something to shoot for other than lootboxes (or what have you).

Agree with the last sentence though. Maybe if they *had* to wait at least 7 seconds (or so) it might change behaviors of people both down, up, and not wanting to go down because there is even more of a penalty.

Maybe reviving someone could give better rewards (a small Scrip gain, XP, something!) and I'm talking about generally speaking, not just at Sieges and such. Also would give healers something more to do/shoot for.

[Calysia]

The time limit needs to stay in my opinion or else it becomes meaningless. I see no real problem with the current system of reviving so not sure "X number of lives" or pools are needed.

I auto-release as it's quicker and not taking away from the group's dps by having someone stop to revive me. My ammo usually needs topping up also so I get that done on the way back down.

[Storm58]

The time limit needs to stay in my opinion or else it becomes meaningless. I see no real problem with the current system of reviving so not sure "X number of lives" or pools are needed.

I auto-release as it's quicker and not taking away from the group's dps by having someone stop to revive me. My ammo usually needs topping up also so I get that done on the way back down.

No no, see? All of what you are saying is going against what the OP was originally talking about. Once you have a race for DPS, no other builds/playstyles matter. THAT is what the OP was trying to get away from.

If you take away a time limit then there is no longer a race for DPS. If there is no longer a set race (of that sort) then other builds become plausible.

Since there is no time limit, there would need to be a way for the players to fail (again with the risk vs. reward thing). The only other way to fail, that I can think of outside of a time limit, would be for players to run out of lives, however best that would be implemented.

If there are a set number of lives, then people would need to rely on others to actually get them up, or waste a life. Since there is no race for DPS, actually taking the time to revive a fallen comrade (especially if there is a small reward for doing so) would be feasible and benefit the team/group.

So, to sum up:
1) Take away time limit and add another way for players to lose (ie. lives).
2) Add more than just a DPS race at the Warmaster's right arm (ie. add more mobs the whole time and lower WM's shelds/health).
3) Give rewards for reviving (ie. small Scrip, XP boost, ammo maybe).
4) Gives ALL types of players meaning to the fight.
5) Gives more strategy to clans and groups of more than "hit his right arm with DPS then follow up with crit and auto-release!"
6) Etc. etc.

Remember, we are all commenting about the OP's thread.

[xJdKxZomBiE]

An idea I've not seen suggested, is how about this;



Everytime you break off a crystal, the 7 minute timer resets. So you break off his right arm crystal, boom, timer resets, work on the left arm, it breaks off, timer resets, break off his back, it resets one more time, and now you have to wail on him with all his adds in the room until he dies or the time runs out.


Or perhaps, at every 25% of his health bar you get him to the timer resets?
100%-7 minutes
75%-reset to 7
50%, 25% etc.

I also think it's lame, the argument still stands,that not every has bomber gear, and manage to get pooled with people that know what the **** they are doing.

I cannot tell you how many times I've seen the Volge BR fired, or infectors ( you'd think the canker would help but it doesnt), or explosive weapons.