The new surge bolters are overpowered and need to be nerfed asap

[Nilxain]

Neither of these two suggestions is going to matter for the PvE content that is most affected, i.e. Volge Sieges. The Volge (other than the discoing Warmaster) move far to slow to make the latter relevant and players will simply move from long range to medium range to address the former.

I am suggesting doing it in such a way that it does matter.

The head hit boxes are all within a certain size, if the spread is enough larger than that size then moving in won't matter - unless is melee in which case that's fine because that increases the risk (because of the way agro works). The spread would make the weapon a slow firing shotgun with sniper damage (so a close range weapon if fully charged).

The speed of the projectile made slow enough could also work if done so that it does matter. This would mean a full charge slows the bullet down quite a lot, making hitting any moving target no mater how slow, very hard. But, if you do hit you get a super high reward - the current damage. They could again move into melee, but that increases the risk because of aggro.

[Nefarious]

It's ok for a gun to be the best gun at one thing

Better then any other sniper in the game. It does everything every other sniper rifle does but better and then some. Has no recoil or kick back. Zero hip spread. No fall off DMG. Pin point accurate. Kills nearly everything in 1 shot....

Its only the best gun at one thing...

So much herp-a-derp from Surge Bolter defenders. The same type of ppl that defended the Immunizer back when that was out of control. Literally brain dead.

[Festival]

You are exactly right a sniper rifle should not function like the surge bolter. Firstly hip shooting with 100% accuracy? Try that with a real sniper rifle and tell me about the barn you couldn't hit.

That's my problem in a nutshell. I don't mind the super-high damage from a charged shot through the scope (although I could see that coming down a bit, too). That's what real sniper rifles do: they deliver a heavy punch at range. What they don't do is function as battle/assault rifles. They're slow-firing weapons with small magazines, not run-and-gun suppression fire weapons. Not weapons for pitched combat.

Add a massive accuracy penalty for hip firing, and they devs would go a long way towards bringing the surge bolters back in line. It would also be a way to better balance things that also corresponded with how weapons actually work, which is always nice for that whole "suspension of disbelief" thing that makes a game more enjoyable.

[twitch reflex]

Yeah the surge bolter is the easiest sniper to use and the most powerful. I dont care about how its easy to use but it should not do more damage than a bolt action and it should not kill with a single charged body shot and non charged to the head.

[Deunan]

The head hit boxes are all within a certain size, if the spread is enough larger than that size then moving in won't matter - unless is melee in which case that's fine because that increases the risk (because of the way agro works). The spread would make the weapon a slow firing shotgun with sniper damage (so a close range weapon if fully charged).

This is trading one nerf for another. The players crying against nerfing won't like it but I understand that is not your concern. That being said, I defer to your experience because I have done very few Arkbreaker Major Arkfalls but isn't getting that close to the Warmaster likely to result in frequent enough knockback if not death which might hurt the DPS and overall viability?

The speed of the projectile made slow enough could also work if done so that it does work. This would mean a full charge slows the bullet down quite a lot, making hitting any moving target no mater how slow, very hard. But, if you do hit you get a super high reward - the current damage. They could again move into melee, but that increases the risk because of aggro.

Again wouldn't this risk lowering the DPS of the weapon? I guess what I'm asking is isn't any degree of change that's large enough to subtantively impact the performance in Volge Sieges so that it's not significantly more viable than it was before the last patch also going to have the same effect with regards to the Warmaster?

[Nilxain]

This is trading one nerf for another. The players crying against nerfing won't like it but I understand that is not your concern.

I was addressing your concerns for Volge sieges, which I agree is where the major impact is (the rest just trickles down from there). All of what I am suggesting is a change that results in stopping the current game breaking nature of this weapon, because that's what this weapon needs at this point - and fast.

But this weapon had a problem pre-patch, which was lack of identity. On one hand it had great identity with being a wonderful hip shot sniper rifle, but on the other hand its charge was lackluster at best. So, basically what I'm saying is, it does need a nerf, but while you're at it lets make it a more interesting weapon.

I would like to see it stay as a viable option for the WM as a crit weapon, but right now it's viable a armor DPS weapon too. Then mix that with the fact that it really is one shot'ing pretty much everything, and we've got a real big problem. What I'm trying to do is make this weapon come out to have a charge that better defines the weapon.

People would still be able to use it as a sniper rifle, and frankly I'm insulted that you would suggest that I'm not concerned. But I do think people need to step back a little a think about this problem a little more. Sure it's a sniper rifle, but not all sniper rifles have to be the exact same - if that were the case then why have multiple ones? I think that this weapon functions just fine when it's not charged (mostly), the problem is in the charging. And since before that charging was lackluster anyway, let's change it in such a way that people no longer break the game with it, while also making it more interesting a versatile :-)

Edit: I just realized I forgot to answer your questions.

isn't getting that close to the Warmaster likely to result in frequent enough knockback if not death which might hurt the DPS and overall viability?

Honestly, if the new charge blade ignored armor I would likely have put it on the list. Melee is actually not bad at all on this fight (but then again I always raided melee anyway, so I'm used to it). When I use my GP I often sit in melee so I can quickly be at his back. But, I've done the fight so many times now I just normally predict his movement enough to survive and it be useful - sometimes it does cause me to die though.

Again wouldn't this risk lowering the DPS of the weapon? I guess what I'm asking is isn't any degree of change that's large enough to subtantively impact the performance in Volge Sieges so that it's not significantly more viable than it was before the last patch also going to have the same effect with regards to the Warmaster?

I'm not sure how many shots this weapon fires when charged, but when nanos proc and spikes are down I think this thing actually may be doing 80-100k damage (9-10k per bullet), it's super sick atm. So, if damage were to stay the same, then you could take your time to line shots up (maybe even using a particle ultimag to have radiation up) and still keep up DPS.

Some of the methods would effect it's usefulness on the WM, but while I would like it to be WM viable and have a better identity, it absolutely needs to no longer game breaking.

[Nefarious]

lol how are things like this even a argument? How can anyone defend the Surge Bolter in how it works? For everyone making sense and trying to explain on how the Surge Bolter is over powered (when clearly the proof is in the game play.) keep in mind that you are trying to explain something to somebody who are clearly looking past the reality -the proof in the game play-.

If they decided to look past that, the undeniable reality that this gun does what it does then they are already far gone. To dumb or stubborn to accept it for what it really is. Ive done this, with cloak, big boomers, surge bolters, and infectors. The ppl who use this **** don't want to hear it. Doesn't matter if you make a power point presentation pointing out the facts of it all. They are to dumb to understand or refuse to accept it because its cheap and they use it.

There is no debate with these kind of dopes. Their minds are not a wall you are trying to get the facts through, their minds are a foggy mist. Whatever facts you throw at them are not hitting a wall but rather go through one end of the mist and out the other. They refuse to grasp it for what it really is. They deny reality of things and substitute their own.

They don't care. They are philistines. Game play mechanics and game balance doesn't matter to them. They are 110% content with the idea of staring at a screen like mouth breathers killing things in 1 hit with over powered weapons with no strategy or thought provoking way to do so. That's the way they like it and there is nothing...nothing you can say to change their minds. If there was then there wouldn't be 3 threads about this same subject with over 5+ pages of replies.

Its the same things being said over and over in just different ways trying to explain it all. Obviously enough these back and fourth arguments mean nothing. Trion does not take whats said in these pissing contests to evaluate and help fix the game. There have been dozens and dozens of threads with hundreds of replies over the months since the Surge Bolter was introduced pointing out how the Surge Bolter is overpowered. And what happened??? Trion went off and made it even stronger to the point its killing Volge in 1 hit. So whats the point of all this?

[TANKballs]

Wait, are people honestly arguing that the surge bolter should be nerfed based on "realistic game mechanics?" If you can name one weapon in this game that is "realistic," I owe you a coke. That's ridiculous. This game is built on a lack of realism in order for us to indulge in futuristic fantasy. You think the pulser is realistic? You think nanos are realistic? Infectors? Please guys, come on. You can hate on people who use the bolter in the name of "balance," but let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater. I like some of the ideas, but my recommendation is treating the charge like a nano that procures based on percentage. Risk/reward prob addressed...

[Punisher Illinois Blue]

Wait, are people honestly arguing that the surge bolter should be nerfed based on "realistic game mechanics?" If you can name one weapon in this game that is "realistic," I owe you a coke. That's ridiculous. This game is built on a lack of realism in order for us to indulge in futuristic fantasy. You think the pulser is realistic? You think nanos are realistic? Infectors? Please guys, come on. You can hate on people who use the bolter in the name of "balance," but let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater. I like some of the ideas, but my recommendation is treating the charge like a nano that procures based on percentage. Risk/reward prob addressed...

THE FISTS!!!!!!! I like vanilla coke

[DanteYoda]

What are the stats on the one you have?

I'd like to see that too.