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  1. #11
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    I don't understand why in every "do this, don't do that" warmaster thread on the forum i keep hearing "don't use cold fire Volge weapons". I us a slow moving Volge recon rifle that does massive amounts of dmg, and i never run out of ammo. I could understand the comments if I never got anywhere with it but i am always in the top 10 on the list and my personal score is always over 120k. I even make it into the top 5 more than i should if this is a bad weapon to use. I never even take my wolfhound out of the holster anymore. If your perks are correct and your weapon is tricked out correctly and your load out is good and your character is pretty strong then individually there should be no reason that any weapon you use is not right for you as a player. if you get people in there that are swapping to a smg just to fight the warmaster they are inexperienced with it then they are not doing any damage compared to someone that knows how to control their weapon. i do agree that there should be more team work on the monkey, but trying to make another player exactly like yours to do what you think it is the best good instead of utilizing everyone strengths and weaknesses to the advantage of the room is futile.
    The only thing required for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing. These are words to live by Trion.....Please do what you can to save this game.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzy View Post
    We did beat him a few times with the same old strategy as always.
    High DPS weapon for the back armor, after armor breaks off, high crit weapon like a Wolfhound.
    No Volge Weapons, no Infectors or BMGs and mostly high level players.
    That's how we did it last night and it worked, I honestly don't get why people get all butt hurt over this its a damned game

  3. #13
    Member Fuzzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bellator View Post
    I don't understand why in every "do this, don't do that" warmaster thread on the forum i keep hearing "don't use cold fire Volge weapons". I us a slow moving Volge recon rifle that does massive amounts of dmg, and i never run out of ammo. I could understand the comments if I never got anywhere with it but i am always in the top 10 on the list and my personal score is always over 120k. I even make it into the top 5 more than i should if this is a bad weapon to use. I never even take my wolfhound out of the holster anymore. If your perks are correct and your weapon is tricked out correctly and your load out is good and your character is pretty strong then individually there should be no reason that any weapon you use is not right for you as a player. if you get people in there that are swapping to a smg just to fight the warmaster they are inexperienced with it then they are not doing any damage compared to someone that knows how to control their weapon. i do agree that there should be more team work on the monkey, but trying to make another player exactly like yours to do what you think it is the best good instead of utilizing everyone strengths and weaknesses to the advantage of the room is futile.
    No, no and no.
    Sorry to be this harsh BUT score says NOTHING about the damage you dealt. IF it would get sorted after damage, you certainly wouldn't be in the Top 5. That's why I hope they put the damage back on the scoreboard.
    Additionally, Volge Weapons don't attack the armor, they go through the armor directly on the HP.
    It's people with explosive weapons who hinder people of a successful runs because you don't do anything against the armor.

    Plus, as you said yourself, Volge Weapons are slow moving, that means that most of the bullets won't even hit the target.

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  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzy View Post
    No, no and no.
    Sorry to be this harsh BUT score says NOTHING about the damage you dealt. IF it would get sorted after damage, you certainly wouldn't be in the Top 5. That's why I hope they put the damage back on the scoreboard.
    Additionally, Volge Weapons don't attack the armor, they go through the armor directly on the HP.
    It's people with explosive weapons who hinder people of a successful runs because you don't do anything against the armor.

    Plus, as you said yourself, Volge Weapons are slow moving, that means that most of the bullets won't even hit the target.
    Nice, I'm 100% with you on this.... And Trion should bring back the damage score to see who really doing the damage....

  5. #15
    Member Chevota's Avatar
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    Look, the fact is anyone that used to be any good at fighting the WM, knows a Bullet gun with good DMG/Fire Rate was always the way to go until the armor broke, then use a Wolfy.

    Lotsa bullets then a Wolfy. Its always been that simple... Its the 20+ other PEOPLE that were broken with dets, cold fire, Inf, and BMG...

    And omfg Extract... Its only 3k point loss and 180 Scrip... drop down and Overcharge, you make that Pointloss back. If you kill the WM you get roughly the same score as 75% of the poeple anyways.


    We've known this since Arkbreak released. Coldfire blows, but people use due to its relative Crit bonus.
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  6. #16
    Member Logain's Avatar
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    Tale of the Tape

    Quote Originally Posted by bellator View Post
    I don't understand why in every "do this, don't do that" warmaster thread on the forum i keep hearing "don't use cold fire Volge weapons". I us a 1. slow moving Volge recon rifle that does massive amounts of dmg, and i never run out of ammo. I could understand the comments if I never got anywhere with it but i am always in the top 10 on the list and 2. my personal score is always over 120k. I even make it into the top 5 more than i should if this is a bad weapon to use. 3. I never even take my wolfhound out of the holster anymore. If your perks are correct and your weapon is tricked out correctly and your load out is good and your character is pretty strong then individually there should be no reason that any weapon you use is not right for you as a player. if you get people in there that 4. are swapping to a smg just to fight the warmaster they are inexperienced with it then they are not doing any damage compared to someone that knows how to control their weapon. i do agree that there should be more team work on the monkey, but trying to make another player exactly like yours to do what you think it is the best good instead of utilizing everyone strengths and weaknesses to the advantage of the room is futile.
    The Warmaster instance is a timed damage instance so you need weapons with a high DPS (damage per second) to defeat it. So I will address the 4 points I highlighted above.

    1. So the use of a slow moving and slow firing Volge weapon just does not stack up when you look at the numbers as far as damage. See below:

    Here are 3 weapons, your volge recon assault rifle, a castithan springer, and a wolfhound. All stats are at the basic levels to normalize the stats and to make it comparable across the board without taking into account ego levels, nanos, etc. (Information thanks to DefianceData).


    ___________Wolfhound_________Castithan Springer___________Volge Recon Rifle
    DMG..............350.........................205.. .......................................1052
    Rate of Fire.... 6.5........................ 15.7........................................ 1.6
    Mag............... 12......................... 81........................................... 15
    Reload.......... 1.8......................... 1.3.......................................... 2.0
    Crit Mult........ 4.0......................... 1.5......................................... 1.6

    Which leads to following advanced DPS and Crit DPS calculations taking into account reload times and magazine sizes:

    Tale of the Tape:

    ________________Wolfhound_________Castithan Springer___________Volge Recon Rifle
    DPS (advanced).........1,152...................... 2,571 ................................... 1,387
    Crit DPS (advanced)...4,608...................... 3,856 ................................... 2,220

    I do not want to reinvent the wheel as these calculations are discussed elsewhere in the forums (Tekrunner has a Weapons post that is very good on the subject) but I have a good DPS Calculator here. Feel free to download and make use of to compare your own personal guns.

    So in short the Castithan Springer (an SMG) does almost twice the DPS as the Volge Recon Rifle and the Wolfhound does more than 2x the amount of critical DPS. So the Volge Recon Rifle does not stack up.

    2. Personal score no longer means you are doing the most damage. You can be a pure healer using a BMG doing no damage at all and get a score 100K+. I like the others posted above me would love to see damage also shown so you can get an indication on who is doing the most good.

    3. Too bad you put your Wolfhound away. You would probably do twice the amount of damage that you are doing currently.

    4. An SMG is really easy to shoot especially the Springer, Pulser, and Tachmag Pulser. So the learning curve should be really small. All you have to do is "point then shoot." Seems pretty straight forward to me

    Hope this helps!

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logain View Post
    The Warmaster instance is a timed damage instance so you need weapons with a high DPS (damage per second) to defeat it. So I will address the 4 points I highlighted above.

    1. So the use of a slow moving and slow firing Volge weapon just does not stack up when you look at the numbers as far as damage. See below:

    Here are 3 weapons, your volge recon assault rifle, a castithan springer, and a wolfhound. All stats are at the basic levels to normalize the stats and to make it comparable across the board without taking into account ego levels, nanos, etc. (Information thanks to DefianceData).


    ___________Wolfhound_________Castithan Springer___________Volge Recon Rifle
    DMG..............350.........................205.. .......................................1052
    Rate of Fire.... 6.5........................ 15.7........................................ 1.6
    Mag............... 12......................... 81........................................... 15
    Reload.......... 1.8......................... 1.3.......................................... 2.0
    Crit Mult........ 4.0......................... 1.5......................................... 1.6

    Which leads to following advanced DPS and Crit DPS calculations taking into account reload times and magazine sizes:

    Tale of the Tape:

    ________________Wolfhound_________Castithan Springer___________Volge Recon Rifle
    DPS (advanced).........1,152...................... 2,571 ................................... 1,387
    Crit DPS (advanced)...4,608...................... 3,856 ................................... 2,220

    I do not want to reinvent the wheel as these calculations are discussed elsewhere in the forums (Tekrunner has a Weapons post that is very good on the subjet) but I have a good DPS Calculator here. Feel free to download and make use of to compare your own personal guns.

    So in short the Castithan Springer (an SMG) does almost twice the DPS as the Volge Recon Rifle and the Wolfhound does more than 2x the amount of critical DPS. So the Volge Recon Rifle does not stack up.

    2. Personal score no longer means you are doing the most damage. You can be a pure healer using a BMG doing no damage at all and get a score 100K+. I like the others posted above me would love to see damage also shown so you can get an indication on who is doing the most good.

    3. Too bad you put your Wolfhound away. You would probably do twice the amount of damage that you are doing currently.

    4. An SMG is really easy to shoot especially the Springer, Pulser, and Tachmag Pulser. So the learning curve should be really small. All you have to do is "point then shoot." Seems pretty straight forward to me

    Hope this helps!
    Run with double castithian springer with preperdness perk and the rest of the perks is amazing if was a score board base on damage it will be high up there......

  8. #18
    Member TASHINKA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logain View Post
    The Warmaster instance is a timed damage instance so you need weapons with a high DPS (damage per second) to defeat it. So I will address the 4 points I highlighted above.

    1. So the use of a slow moving and slow firing Volge weapon just does not stack up when you look at the numbers as far as damage. See below:

    Here are 3 weapons, your volge recon assault rifle, a castithan springer, and a wolfhound. All stats are at the basic levels to normalize the stats and to make it comparable across the board without taking into account ego levels, nanos, etc. (Information thanks to DefianceData).


    ___________Wolfhound_________Castithan Springer___________Volge Recon Rifle
    DMG..............350.........................205.. .......................................1052
    Rate of Fire.... 6.5........................ 15.7........................................ 1.6
    Mag............... 12......................... 81........................................... 15
    Reload.......... 1.8......................... 1.3.......................................... 2.0
    Crit Mult........ 4.0......................... 1.5......................................... 1.6

    Which leads to following advanced DPS and Crit DPS calculations taking into account reload times and magazine sizes:

    Tale of the Tape:

    ________________Wolfhound_________Castithan Springer___________Volge Recon Rifle
    DPS (advanced).........1,152...................... 2,571 ................................... 1,387
    Crit DPS (advanced)...4,608...................... 3,856 ................................... 2,220

    I do not want to reinvent the wheel as these calculations are discussed elsewhere in the forums (Tekrunner has a Weapons post that is very good on the subjet) but I have a good DPS Calculator here. Feel free to download and make use of to compare your own personal guns.

    So in short the Castithan Springer (an SMG) does almost twice the DPS as the Volge Recon Rifle and the Wolfhound does more than 2x the amount of critical DPS. So the Volge Recon Rifle does not stack up.

    2. Personal score no longer means you are doing the most damage. You can be a pure healer using a BMG doing no damage at all and get a score 100K+. I like the others posted above me would love to see damage also shown so you can get an indication on who is doing the most good.

    3. Too bad you put your Wolfhound away. You would probably do twice the amount of damage that you are doing currently.

    4. An SMG is really easy to shoot especially the Springer, Pulser, and Tachmag Pulser. So the learning curve should be really small. All you have to do is "point then shoot." Seems pretty straight forward to me

    Hope this helps!
    this makes me feel better, I use a bio springer & rad wolfhound; I would prefer volge weapons over bug guns & bmg's any day though! - please bring back DMG score on warmaster!!
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  9. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by bellator View Post
    ....I us a slow moving Volge recon rifle that does massive amounts of dmg, and i never run out of ammo....
    You need help in assessing DPS because this statment illustrates that you don't have a firm grasp of how to calculate it. Hopefully you'll take what Logain has posted to heart. It will only help you out in the long run.

    One thing that Logain doesn't mention is the roll ammo consumption plays on DPS outside of rate of fire and reload factors. A practical measure of weapon DPS has to take environment into account (e.g. is there an ammo box nearby and how much DPS you can lose by having to rely on it), and the possiblity of having to rely on an Ammo Spike as opposed to being able to use a Damage Spike to further increase your DPS. In a coordinated kill group against the Warmaster though this isn't a factor because an ammo spike should always be running during the burn phase.

    Cold fire weapons do have utility in certain situations regardless of their single target DPS. However because the fight with the Warmaster requires single opponent combat strategy, using cold fire weapons against him is counter-productive for both you and the entire kill group. Please stop using them against the Warmaster.
    Quote Originally Posted by bellator View Post
    .... I could understand the comments if I never got anywhere with it but i am always in the top 10 on the list and my personal score is always over 120k. I even make it into the top 5 more than i should if this is a bad weapon to use....
    One further thing to expound upon what Fuzzy mentioned about the disconnect between score and damage. Depending on what kind of cold fire weapon you use you may see good damage totals if they are reintroduced into the end of event score cards. However when you use a cold fire weapon your damage numbers are artificially inflated in terms of what they mean towards your contribution to the success or failure of the effort because all that damage is completely weighted to the Warmaster's health. In other words you did nothing to help break the crystal armor and breaking the the crystal armor takes priority over damaging health because the sooner it breaks the greater the net DPS for the entire group will be. The same holds true for any weapon that does explosive damage.

    dyunan.natsuu デュナン・ナッツ - PC NA

  10. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Deunan View Post
    You need help in assessing DPS because this statment illustrates that you don't have a firm grasp of how to calculate it. Hopefully you'll take what Logain has posted to heart. It will only help you out in the long run.

    One thing that Logain doesn't mention is the roll ammo consumption plays on DPS outside of rate of fire and reload factors. A practical measure of weapon DPS has to take environment into account (e.g. is there an ammo box nearby and how much DPS you can lose by having to rely on it), and the possiblity of having to rely on an Ammo Spike as opposed to being able to use a Damage Spike to further increase your DPS. In a coordinated kill group against the Warmaster though this isn't a factor because an ammo spike should always be running during the burn phase.

    Cold fire weapons do have utility in certain situations regardless of their single target DPS. However because the fight with the Warmaster requires single opponent combat strategy, using cold fire weapons against him is counter-productive for both you and the entire kill group. Please stop using them against the Warmaster.
    One further thing to expound upon what Fuzzy mentioned about the disconnect between score and damage. Depending on what kind of cold fire weapon you use you may see good damage totals if they are reintroduced into the end of event score cards. However when you use a cold fire weapon your damage numbers are artificially inflated in terms of what they mean towards your contribution to the success or failure of the effort because all that damage is completely weighted to the Warmaster's health. In other words you did nothing to help break the crystal armor and breaking the the crystal armor takes priority over damaging health because the sooner it breaks the greater the net DPS for the entire group will be. The same holds true for any weapon that does explosive damage.
    Pretty much sums it up. He put his own score above the success of the entire group in importance. Sadly most people on 360 do the same. We can't keep using the excuse "they don't know better" anymore. Most know what the strategy is, but are more concerned with themselves than the success/failure of the instance. This, the loot nerfing, and the increased difficulty have and continue to discourage teamwork in this instance; because the people that know and follow the strategy don't want to put up with the headache anymore.

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