Pay to win, a definition

[Bonehead]

I had no idea you were a star!
This changes EVERYTHING!

[Hopeisdead]

I had no idea you were a star!
This changes EVERYTHING!

No it does not.

[MiKe_de]

Look at the new Elder scroll online. This must be the worst pay to win MMO ever developed.

Because you have to buy the game, pay a subscription fee... and you have to buy things from the ingame shop, to win. And if you don't buy the deluxe edition, you have a hell of a grind before you, to get a simple horse ....

And on top of it all that, the party-coop system is a load of crap, because every single player in the party has to solve quests and riddles on his OWN. Imagine that!

In my oppion is ESO on the fast trip to F2P, too. That do you think that THEIR Custumers will say, then they make this game F2P ... maybe next year?

But as long as the creative account managers are involved in the gameplay, we will never ever get a fair MMO game ever again. Why should this game be an exception?

[ChaosOneX]

There isn't an in game shop in ESO, and I'm doing just fine without even knowing it exists if it does.

And I don't have a horse, yet am doing just fine. The lack of a horse does not stop me in PvP or PvE adventures, and gives me something to work towards. Unlike defiance, where I'm given a ride from the start.

[Manstan]

You still have to complete the mission to get the car.

[Pandur]

I'm not sure they understand the meaning of "micro transaction".

micro, macro.
Same thing, so probably just another typo.

[XPac]

If "pay to win" just means paying to avoid grinding, then I honestly don't see the big deal.

And if Trion chooses to change their model a bit so that they charge people who don't want to grind, I don't see the big deal in that easier. It's win-win. Trion gets a few bucks and the people who don't have the patience or time to grind can get around it if they have the disposable income to do it.

It's not like this royally screws over the people who can't or don't want to pay money to avoid grinding. They're not getting access to better stuff. It's just that they're getting to the same theoretical place in a different way.

No bid deal.

[dramaQkarri]

micro, macro.
Same thing, so probably just another typo.

Haha, can't wait to see them fix THAT typo!

[Tyger_WDR]

My 2 cent admission fee is paid.

"Pay to Win" is kind of contentious because everyone has a different take on what P2W is. If I'm buying a nice gun, is it P2W? If I'm buying convenience items or DLC or access to higher levels, is it P2W? If the game restricts me from advancing unless I give the game money, is it P2W? Any way it's cut, as I mentioned on my show this week, once a "free" game gets the social label of "Pay to Win" it's a death sentence for the game. At least in North America, anyhow.

My take is that P2W is really only an issue if you're selling power for money. If player "A" pays $15, will they have a distinct advantage over player "B" who didn't? This is most prevalent in weapons or armor, but some convenience items might fall into this as well. XP boosters, for example could be considered "P2W" as they trade money for the economy of time. I pay $10, I save a few weeks of grinding.

There are also "pay for convenience / cool" items but there are a lot of "fuzzy" items in here too. As mentioned before specific to Defiance, keys. You can't get to T4 lockboxes unless you're willing to pay for a larger key wallet. It could also be argued that DLC is "P2W" too if it gives you access to more power. More bag space, XP boosters, keys... It starts to slide into that "you need to pay to compete" level.

My take is that Defiance will become "P2W" to some level. I say this because DLC 5 was the first expansion where I felt like I had to give Trion more money in order to "pace" with people at my same EGO level. And not having a 5 figure job (freelance! WOO!!!) means I'm going to compensate for a lack of gear by learning the game to work within my means. I won't pay to win, I'll work within the constraints I have out of sheer spite.

Thing is, people will pay it. Trion knows this. The "Pay Whales" are out there, and already playing Defiance. How many threads have there been with people saying "I spent over $1000 on this game" since the F2P announcement? There are many, MANY Chinese MMO's that are horrifyingly "Pay to win". And before people scream at me for whatever here's an article for you from IGN (http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/08/...and-pay-to-win) But I'll quote the important part for my argument :

“When I talk to Chinese game designers,” said Psigoda, “they say, ‘I just dug this new pit, this monetization pit, that somebody could spend 10,000 dollars or 50,000 dollars in and not reach the highest level.’ It’s all about the monetization of the game.”
...
And users pay it, because they want to be first on the leaderboards. Psigoda provided statistics showing some gamers would spend over 100,000 dollars on a single game.

It's also been argued that all F2P games are "P2W" too, because everything to make the game easier or more convinent are for sale (http://www.mmobomb.com/what-really-c...tes-pay-to-win)

What will be more interesting is if Trion goes the old "World of Tanks" model with "gold bullets". Yes, you can buy more powerful ammo in WoT. Imagine in Defiance if they charged, I don' tknow, 300 bits for "enhanced ammo" that did more damage and 100% nano effects. Yeah. Will they do it? I don't know, but if they see a market, they'll offer it and see how many players leave compared to how many plunk down $10 for a few days of amazing shots. And imagine the havok it would wreak in PvP as people scramble to the cash shop.

Leading to one other question. If the game does indeed go to a "P2W" model, will it impact individual players? Yes and no. PvP, definitely. If people only need to lay out dead presidents to win PvP it'll be a huge impact. World events or 4 player missions, I'm not entirely certain. It would give new players an advantage over their fellow new players as far as leveling speed and possibly arkfall achievements, but with the "sliding scale" it will quickly catch up with them when they make something "threat level 10" before they're ready for it.

But for the most part, it won't affect me as I drive through the world doing roadsides, arkfalls, sieges and the like. I'll still get my shots in. As long as I don't feel like I HAVE to buy something in order to take things out in the world, it's a non-issue to me. If I don't need gold bullets to play in an arkfall, I won't buy them. Hell, I'll not buy them just to prove you can play without it. But I'm used to being the underdog, it's kind of my thing now.

If Trion sticks to selling minor items like XP boosts or bag space, it's no skin off my back. I'll be one of those guys finding the challenge competing against them for scoreboard rankings at Kenn Farms. If Trion makes the mistake of selling power for money, then I'll help in the handing out of pitchforks and torches. but 'till then, hey of a new guy wants to blaze through content and pay $50-$1000 to do it, well it's their money.

I have no problem being a guppy in a whale-filled game. I'll bite them in the dorsal fin.

And as for the length of this... I'm a writer, word count is what I do for a living. Deal.

[Deunan]

Look at the new Elder scroll online...

After playing the beta I decided not to play it. Even with a free promotional copy it's not worth the subscription price IMO. I wish the whole thing would shut down because it's hurting the brand.