Trion - Pay Attention to How Bungie is Managing Community Expectations...

[Prothean]

stop comparing apples to oranges. There were problems that weren't fixed enough and cheaters not dealt with but when it comes to suggestions they led to bigger problems then the ones before. Example five roll legendaries, arkforge abilities, drop rate increase, better rolls, new scoring system (referring to dlc 5).

That's not entirely true. You're leaving out all the times that Trion's Defiance team implemented design decisions that NO ONE wanted, or they implemented something players wanted but only went halfway, such as the weapon upgrades that weren't retroactive and consequently screwed over their veteran players. That would be somewhat analogous to Destiny implementing character beards a year into the game, but only for new characters created after they implemented the change and not for any existing characters.

It's not that Defiance never implemented community suggestions - it's that they didn't really listen or understand those suggestions and think things through enough, which often resulted in twisting the idea into something unpleasant or undesired. And of course, there are those times when they decided to do something that no one wanted, like the grenade changes, and despite overwhelming negative player feedback, they did it anyway.

In the end, it all comes down to bad management more than bad development, and Bungie doesn't appear to be suffering from that problem. I wouldn't be too surprised if it's noted in Trion's Wikipedia entry for Defiance that while they did break new ground with console MMOs, the game is also widely regarded as an example of how not to run an MMO video game.

[wartitan]

Wonder how long Destiny will be out before people start complaining about it? :P

The fact that their Beta was rock solid from a stability and playability perspective would indicate that people with have much less major things to complain about (so glad my Sparrow never disappeared into thin air on me!)...

[Bonehead]

LOL, I swear this was NOT a Destiny vs Defiance game comparison of how much better Destiny will be than Defiance (even if my opinion is that it will be).... I was simply trying to raise the awareness that Bungie actually listens to the community when it comes to shaping their games. Trion on the other hand....well....we all know their track record.

Totally get that War. I was just making a point about keeping expectations low because of Trion's commitment to the game is all. When Destiny comes to PC I will give it a try. Until then I have no way of knowing witch is better.

[wartitan]

That's not entirely true. You're leaving out all the times that Trion's Defiance team implemented design decisions that NO ONE wanted, or they implemented something players wanted but only went halfway, such as the weapon upgrades that weren't retroactive and consequently screwed over their veteran players. That would be somewhat analogous to Destiny implementing character beards a year into the game, but only for new characters created after they implemented the change and not for any existing characters.

It's not that Defiance never implemented community suggestions - it's that they didn't really listen or understand those suggestions and think things through enough, which often resulted in twisting the idea into something unpleasant or undesired. And of course, there are those times when they decided to do something that no one wanted, like the grenade changes, and despite overwhelming negative player feedback, they did it anyway.

In the end, it all comes down to bad management more than bad development, and Bungie doesn't appear to be suffering from that problem. I wouldn't be too surprised if it's noted in Trion's Wikipedia entry for Defiance that while they did break new ground with console MMOs, the game is also widely regarded as an example of how not to run an MMO video game.

That's a good point Prothean, I didn't really think about the fact that when the Casti charge pack came out, the DID give players the free customization change so you could be a Casti, which was pretty much a demand from the community.

So I stand corrected, I think they are batting 2 for about 50 on the changes requested by the player base, negated by at least 3 major changes (grenades, retroactive rolls, AF nerf) that really makes them -1 for 50...

[Bonehead]

In the end, it all comes down to bad management more than bad development

[Nefarious]

Actually, the reason why I even made this post was because in an interview with one of the leads for Destiny, beards wasn't even on the radar. Because of the feedback from the community in the beta, they started 'a heated debate internally' and are looking at prioritizing it because of the feedback...

http://destinynews.net/custom-games-customization/

Its just as easy to believe beards were always going to be in the game just how its easy to say that game features that were said to be inspired by the community were never inspired by the community in the first place.

Of course ppl are going to ask for beards. That's a obvious main stay choice in any game that allows character customization. So for whatever reason they could of just not got it into beta or left it out on purpose. Community then sees a stupid thing like lack of beards in customization. They then say they want obvious choice of beard options to be added then Destiny can go 'huzzah we listened' when beards were most likely going to be in the game anyway.

And as for other thing noted in that interview such as weapon balancing based on community feed back... Defiance does the same thing.

[wartitan]

Totally get that War. I was just making a point about keeping expectations low because of Trion's commitment to the game is all. When Destiny comes to PC I will give it a try. Until then I have no way of knowing witch is better.

Another good point about commitment to the game. Check out this article about the DEVELOPERS at Bungie, and how much they care about their game. Newsweek did a cover of the game, and talked with the developers, who allowed Newsweek to publish their favorite builds and WHY they loved those builds. Pretty cool when you feel like the company is actually invested personally in the game, and it's not just a job...

http://imgur.com/a/bv7y8

[Raico Sansin]

I swear I come these forums just to hear the outlandish crap that Nefy says. EARN THAT PAYCHECK NEFARIOUS!!!

[wartitan]

Its just as easy to believe beards were always going to be in the game just how its easy to say that game features that were said to be inspired by the community were never inspired by the community in the first place.

Of course ppl are going to ask for beards. That's a obvious main stay choice in any game that allows character customization. So for whatever reason they could of just not got it into beta or left it out on purpose. Community then sees a stupid thing like lack of beards in customization. They then say they want obvious choice of beard options to be added then Destiny can go 'huzzah we listened' when beard were most likely going to be in the game anyway.

And as for other thing noted in that interview such as weapon balancing based on community feed back... Defiance does the same thing.

Big difference between balancing weapons and nerfing them into uselessness. Something else the Defiance community has been begging for....a combat shotgun that's ACTUALLY useful for PVE, but still hasn't even been considered a priority.

In addition to the fact that people get legendary shotguns/rocket launchers/infectors/BMGs and just break them down or vendor them because they have no use in ANY part of the game.

I guess you're right Nef, they have been implementing what the "community" wants (if you count the Creative Lead as the only member of that "community")

[Nefarious]

I swear I come these forums just to hear the outlandish crap that Nefy says. EARN THAT PAYCHECK NEFARIOUS!!!