Trion - Pay Attention to How Bungie is Managing Community Expectations...

[N3gativeCr33p]

And what is 99.9% confirmed? Beards!

Hehehe... my exo warlock is going to look all sorts of pimp with a beard! Nice!

[wartitan]

It was the Strain Reducer mod that made Infectors fully auto. The Immunizer itself was never full auto. The Full Auto Immunizer because of the Strain Reducer made the other infectors useless in comparison. So what have you? One gun that makes a whole weapon class useless except for 1 or do something to tone that 1 down to help bring the others up to speed? Ppl think the Canker is OPed, a Full Auto Immunizer was unrivaled.

And as far as the Strain Reducer going from making Infectors to full auto to being a x1.10 fire rate never made the Immunizer useless as it has double the range when compared to other infectors. It is good at what it does but not to over powered in doing it.

And not every gun is made to score the highest at Ark Falls. Just because Combat shotguns don't excel at those events doesn't mean they are useless. That could be said about so many weapon types when comparing their use in events, just because they are not good at one doesn't make them a over all bust.

The Immunizer used to be a fully auto weapon without a Strain Reducer. I pulled a baller epic one that wasn't modded at all and had a nice roll on it (when there weren't 4 rolls guaranteed back when I pulled that beast). Then they made it burst and I junked it cuz it was no longer useful for much of anything...

And arkfalls aren't the only events that combat shotguns are useless in, I'd never use one in a co-op, incursion, siege or basically any other PvE event. There are just so many better weapons that could be used...

Either way, there are too many useless variants of many different weapon types (the FRC Innoculator, Spanner Trapper, PS Slugger, VBI Sniper, FRC Sub-Carbine, just to name a few that cross various weapon categories). They could get rid of a ton of weapons and just focus on the synergies/nanos of far fewer since no one ends up really keeping those weapons anyway. Instead of clogging up the game with useless junk, yet another way they drastically mismanage the game.

[wartitan]

Hehehe... my exo warlock is going to look all sorts of pimp with a beard! Nice!

Lol, not sure my Exo will good with a beard My female warlock might though.....wait....what?!

[N3gativeCr33p]

Lol, not sure my Exo will good with a beard My female warlock might though.....wait....what?!

Well, that look did wonders for this carnival worker's career... lol

[Nefarious]

The Immunizer used to be a fully auto weapon without a Strain Reducer. I pulled a baller epic one that wasn't modded at all and had a nice roll on it (when there weren't 4 rolls guaranteed back when I pulled that beast). Then they made it burst and I junked it cuz it was no longer useful for much of anything...

And arkfalls aren't the only events that combat shotguns are useless in, I'd never use one in a co-op, incursion, siege or basically any other PvE event. There are just so many better weapons that could be used...

Either way, there are too many useless variants of many different weapon types (the FRC Innoculator, Spanner Trapper, PS Slugger, VBI Sniper, FRC Sub-Carbine, just to name a few that cross various weapon categories). They could get rid of a ton of weapons and just focus on the synergies/nanos of far fewer since no one ends up really keeping those weapons anyway. Instead of clogging up the game with useless junk, yet another way they drastically mismanage the game.

Immunizer was never full auto on its own, it needed the "+3 burst mod". And for sure a lot of weapons need better separation to stand out more and that's something that can be done. And Im pretty sure they will.

And idk how you say combat shotguns are not worth anything. For sure they are weaker then Pump Actions but make up for it for having way faster reloads. Pumps have to load in shells while Combats are mags. Its either one or the other. Cant load fast and be strong.

Cluster shots are good. VBI Auto Shotguns are good. Surge Nano Fraggers are very good in that they guarantee nano proc on full charge. Auto Fraggers are good. Auto Scattergun (shoots slugs) is good.

Berserker is real good but not out of the box. Get one with a lot of rounds in it and its just constant no let up dense fire with fast reloads.

The Particle Scattergun is slow but very strong and accurate.

The only one I think that sucks is the EMC Auto Shotgun, the one that shoots in a flat line. Its very weak but its just the faster counter part for the Pump Action Heavy Scattergun.

Anything to make Combat Shotguns stronger then they are now could very well lessen the idea to ever use the slower but then slightly stronger pumps actions. Pump Actions could very easily be weapons of diminishing returns in comparison to buffed Combats.

[Amack]

Nef, you are doing it again. lol.

[wartitan]

Immunizer was never full auto on its own, it needed the "+3 burst mod". And for sure a lot of weapons need better separation to stand out more and that's something that can be done. And Im pretty sure they will.

And idk how you say combat shotguns are not worth anything. For sure they are weaker then Pump Actions but make up for it for having way faster reloads. Pumps have to load in shells while Combats are mags. Its either one or the other. Cant load fast and be strong.

Cluster shots are good. VBI Auto Shotguns are good. Surge Nano Fraggers are very good in that they guarantee nano proc on full charge. Auto Fraggers are good. Auto Scattergun (shoots slugs) is good.

Berserker is real good but not out of the box. Get one with a lot of rounds in it and its just constant no let up dense fire with fast reloads.

The Particle Scattergun is slow but very strong and accurate.

The only one I think that sucks is the EMC Auto Shotgun, the one that shoots in a flat line. Its very weak but its just the faster counter part for the Pump Action Heavy Scattergun.

Anything to make Combat Shotguns stronger then they are now could very well lessen the idea to ever use the slower but then slightly stronger pumps actions. Pump Actions could very easily be weapons of diminishing returns in comparison to buffed Combats.

Sorry, I shouldn't have lumped all combat shotties into the useless category, forgot the Berserker was a combat shotty (I'm rather fond of the Berserker)...and I promise you the Immunizer, at one point, was fully auto. It was the first bug gun I ever got (and I had been on the lookout for a bug gun, was so stoked when I got it). It was full auto without any mods (I barely knew what a mod was when I first started), and I loved it. You always remember your first

[wartitan]

Well, that look did wonders for this carnival worker's career... lol

Lol, that's awesome. She, however, does not look like the butt-kicking heroine that will be my female Voidwalker (maybe Sunsinger, haven't decided on Sub-class yet...)

[Maixx]

Immunizer was never full auto, it is/was auto burst (continues firing in bursts as trigger is held, does not require a trigger pull per burst.)
Before the strain reducer was FR, it was a 3 shot burst & that eliminated the burst delay, and turned the auto burst into full auto.

[OttawaREDBLACKS]

That's not entirely true. You're leaving out all the times that Trion's Defiance team implemented design decisions that NO ONE wanted, or they implemented something players wanted but only went halfway, such as the weapon upgrades that weren't retroactive and consequently screwed over their veteran players. That would be somewhat analogous to Destiny implementing character beards a year into the game, but only for new characters created after they implemented the change and not for any existing characters.

It's not that Defiance never implemented community suggestions - it's that they didn't really listen or understand those suggestions and think things through enough, which often resulted in twisting the idea into something unpleasant or undesired. And of course, there are those times when they decided to do something that no one wanted, like the grenade changes, and despite overwhelming negative player feedback, they did it anyway.

In the end, it all comes down to bad management more than bad development, and Bungie doesn't appear to be suffering from that problem. I wouldn't be too surprised if it's noted in Trion's Wikipedia entry for Defiance that while they did break new ground with console MMOs, the game is also widely regarded as an example of how not to run an MMO video game.

Serious question here if defiance was made and controlled by bungie with everything remaining the same would anyone be complaining at all. If destiny was made by trion worlds instead would everyone be sucking their metaphorical male genitalia about destiny being "so good".

All the changes were to balance and you know what if you want to tell me what specifically ruined the game go tell me what it is because it is nothing compared to games where it is valid to complain about the problem.