Coming Change to Weapon Rarity Bonuses

[King Stud]

Probably, I did it on my calculator and didnt bother to check the typed form on the forum.

I only did that model to check needler vs tachmag and figure might as well as posted the procedures. I actually under calculated the needler's dps by maybe 5%ish by forgetting to multiple both native damage by 15%.

Where does the 15% dmg bonus come from?

[satirized]

Where does the 15% dmg bonus come from?

OJ rarity damage bonus. As I said, I did it as rough estimate. And I believe the 1.35 reload would be rounded to 1.4sec reload on the tachmag. So overestimate on the tach.

[King Stud]

Did you also forget to put parentheses in your formula? Because that simplifies down to (dmg/FR) + reload = advanced dps, which can't be right.

I took Tekrunner's advanced dps formula (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...sharing#gid=15) and simplified that down:

Tekrunner's formula: dps * ((mag / RF ) / (mag / RF + reload))

simplified: (dmg*FR*mag)/(mag+FR*reload)

I also went ahead and built two "unicorn" tachmags using pre-patch and post-patch rolls and calculated dps & advanced dps for both of them.

Pre-Patch
1.05 mag
1.03 fire rate
1.05 dmg
1.10 dmg

Post-Patch
0.90 reload
1.30 mag
1.08 dmg
1.20 fire rate

Assume base dmg = x, base mag = 50, & base reload = 1.4.

DPS
Pre-Patch: 25(1.03) * x(1+0.05+0.10) = 29.61x
Post-Patch: 25(1.20) * x(1+0.08) = 32.4x

32.4/29.61 = 1.09. The Post-Patch unicorn has a 9% dps gain over the Pre-Patch unicorn.

Advanced DPS
Pre-Patch: (x(1+0.05+0.10)*25(1.03)*50(1.05))/(50(1.05)+25(1.03)*1.4) = 17.56x
Post-Patch: (x(1+0.08)*25(1.20)*50(1.30))/(50(1.30)+25(1.20)*1.4(0.90)) = 20.49x

20.49/17.56 = 1.17. The Post-Patch unicorn has a 17% advanced dps gain over the Pre-Patch unicorn.


As you can see, there exists a large discrepancy between Pre-Patch and Post-Patch weapons, at least when it comes to tachmags. Unless I did my math wrong, you might as well toss out all your old unicorns now, because they won't be unicorns much longer.

[satirized]

I also went ahead and built two "unicorn" tachmags using pre-patch and post-patch rolls and calculated dps & advanced dps for both of them.

Pre-Patch
1.05 mag
1.03 fire rate
1.05 dmg
1.10 dmg

Post-Patch
0.90 reload
1.30 mag
1.08 dmg
1.20 fire rate

Assume base dmg = x, base mag = 50, & base reload = 1.4.

DPS
Pre-Patch: 25(1.03) * x(1+0.05+0.10) = 29.61x
Post-Patch: 25(1.20) * x(1+0.08) = 32.4x

32.4/29.61 = 1.09. The Post-Patch unicorn has a 9% dps gain over the Pre-Patch unicorn.

Advanced DPS
Pre-Patch: (x(1+0.05+0.10)*25(1.03)*50(1.05))/(50(1.05)+25(1.03)*1.4) = 17.56x
Post-Patch: (x(1+0.08)*25(1.20)*50(1.30))/(50(1.30)+25(1.20)*1.4(0.90)) = 20.49x

20.49/17.56 = 1.17. The Post-Patch unicorn has a 17% advanced dps gain over the Pre-Patch unicorn.


As you can see, there exists a large discrepancy between Pre-Patch and Post-Patch weapons, at least when it comes to tachmags. Unless I did my math wrong, you might as well toss out all your old unicorns now, because they won't be unicorns much longer.

Heavily depends on weapon.

For example, my frontier semi auto.

2 x dmg bring it to 1.15 dmg. Its definitely higher then what you can get after. For a sniper rifle, the firerate increase is negligible.

It would loses around 500ish points of dmg under a post patch setup.
Certain PVP weapons are heavily determined by pure damage, not dps.


Also, remember how firerate works on burst weapons.

[King Stud]

Heavily depends on weapon.

For example, my frontier semi auto.

2 x dmg bring it to 1.15 dmg. Its definitely higher then what you can get before. For a sniper rifle, the firerate increase is negligible.

It would loses around 500ish points of dmg under a post patch setup.
Certain PVP weapons are heavily determined by pure damage, not dps.


Also, remember how firerate works on burst weapons.

It's just that numbers on the new rolls for dmg and fire rate, at least for automatics weps, are ludicrously high. According to Rashere's post, "The total maximum bonus to DPS you can achieve is roughly the same, or slightly higher, than it was before but you’ll get it from multiple types of bonuses instead." Look at my calculations, and tell me again that both tachmags have the same bonus to dps. The numbers, especially for fire rate and dmg rolls, badly need to be reworked and field tested to achieve parity.

[satirized]

It's just that numbers on the new rolls for dmg and fire rate, at least for automatics weps, are ludicrously high. According to Rashere's post, "The total maximum bonus to DPS you can achieve is roughly the same, or slightly higher, than it was before but you’ll get it from multiple types of bonuses instead." Look at my calculations, and tell me again that both tachmags have the same bonus to dps. The numbers, especially for fire rate and dmg rolls, badly need to be reworked to achieve parity.

You have an increase rate of ammo consumption from firerate. It should be fine. 12% increase in the grand scheme of things doesnt really affect the game's balance as a whole.

[King Stud]

You have an increase rate of ammo consumption from firerate. It should be fine. 12% increase in the grand scheme of things doesnt really affect the game's balance as a whole.

12% increase is a OJ roll. That's pretty significant, in fact almost at the level of "a massive difference in effectiveness" that caused this whole patch to be implemented in the first place.

[HelpIveBeenRenamed]

As long as they dont mess with my existing weapons like my quad fire rate cannonneer canker and my double damage top notch prepared big boomer I am happy.

It seems like a chance to get some kinda almost new weapons its gunna be a bit wierd when ya turn new stuff oj though lolz

[Eleni]

Hellow all. Got the news In-game last night (EU time) and could only check Today.

Thanks to all making things a bit more clear, and working hard to find Which is the best. I appreciate the community work.

I am still ashamed by the basics of removing the number of same rolls. It was rare to get a 3x or 4x same rolls gun, but very nice when got one. Well, whats done is done we used to the prompt changes now.

I know you tryied to prove hard with maths on wolfies, Tell me if im wrong but as far as i understand:

-Our current gun 2x(something) roll will be "AVERAGE" balanced with a new gun orange roll (something).
-But our 3x / 4x(something) roll will be kickass gun compared to this stuck Orange roll (something).

I got a few 3x Acc bolter that helps me greatly to snapshot, a 3x reload Mazu and also my 4xreload QM FRC sawed off That i dont want to be changed at all; they are kickass guns and i invested lot of Arkforges in; so i want to keep great advantage from them.

Will require A LOT of DPS tests once its updated...

As well as i fear everybody will get the "same" guns after patch :/

Last one, when? when does this change is meant to take place?

[Eleni]

Accuracy rolls removed on bolter snipers. i know it will still show on my ojs, but will the effect still be live??

Its the only roll removed so i fear it still shows but doesnt affect the sightcross anymore