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  1. #51
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    Most of the missions were pretty easy run and gun missions (occasionally stop for a breather/shielding up)

    Some of the end game missions were much harder and soloing the end boss was tough... well I had to try like 3 times until I made it.

    IMO the difficulty is ok, its not too hard but definitely not too hard neither...

  2. #52
    Member BJWyler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crissana View Post
    As a sniper, the LAST thing my character would do is jump down off that nice safe ledge that's got both height and some cover, so taking that choice away from me at the beginning is rather crappy. The fight should be doable with ANY spec, not a specific "Take a BMG and heal yourself til they get tired of fighting and die from exhaustion" type of strategy.

    This is bad design, and this needs to be rebalanced, not necessarily nerfed, but give those of us who like to snipe from a distance a chance. At least give us the decision whether or not to jump down and fight up close and personal.

    As it stands now, I abandoned it and am just running around patrolling the roads for encounters. Not what I would prefer to be doing. I would rather be following the storyline, but as it stands now, that's impossible.
    Agreed. The mechanics of the mission don’t necessarily bother me – it’s the implementation. First of all, what the heck is Rosa doing in the mission in the first place. She’s pretty useless compared to Cass and Cooper. If it’s for story, well, just like you, my character certainly would not rashly jump into a pit from which there was no way to jump out, so that kinda ruins the story of the mission right there for me. At the very least, Rosa should be igniting the smelters so that our character can focus on doing the damage to the adds and the boss. Part of the appeal of the game is the different progression mechanics in that we don’t “level” our characters, but instead “level” our tools. As such, every mission needs to be able to be completed without having to resort to a specific weapon type or perk-set.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bainbridge View Post
    This makes no sense at all for a game tied to a TV show that logically would attract a wide range of kinds of player. The one strategy that got me to this point was simply dying often, and earning lots of money between main missions to pay for it. But having to start the boss fight over, losing my progress, makes this totally impossible for me. In many MMOs, I build my experience up higher than what is needed for main story missions, to compensate for my slow elderly reaction time, but that does not work with Defiance. I appreciate the Youtube videos people have posted, and the written advice, but it does not help. It is totally crazy for the first MMO/TV combination to exclude a good part of its audience. Frankly, I feel insulted by Defiance.
    I don’t feel insulted, but I definitely do feel let down. I have been playing the game hardcore for the last two weeks – I have been enjoying it that much, even when I got my arse handed to me in a few of the missions. I was able to change my tactics and use the terrain around me to my advantage and strong points. I also think you may not be too far off with the tie in either – it’s one of the reasons that I finally decided to start playing the game. It has a solid main story arc and that alone is one of the reasons I enjoy it, and it’s one of the reasons that this mission has come to be so disappointing. The last shooter I played was the original Doom. Heck, in the tutorial I was pulling my hair out because I was shooting at stuff and just plain missing (the SWTOR auto aim and curving laser bolts really spoiled me), but once I got the hang of it, I could settle in to a good sniper theme, which I love. But that’s not my main point here.

    I know I will never get a gold trophy in the Time Challenges, and remain content when I get a Silver. I know I will probably never even get a silver or bronze in the Hotshot or Rampage challenges, no matter how hard I try. I know I will never be top notch in PvP, and will probably avoid it altogether so my lack of skill does not hurt the team unlucky enough to get me in the match. However, the one thing I should be able to look forward to is enjoying the story missions, side missions, emergencies, and ArkFall events. Unfortunately, due to this mission, I can no longer proceed with the first two, and the balloon is now deflated.

    This situation is not unusual for any game – there are those who think something is too easy, while others think it’s too hard. Personally, I think anything that is integral to advancement in storyline in a game should be able to be completed by the playerbase, and believe this can be done without “dumbing down” an encounter for everyone. In some instances difficulty levels have been used by games to achieve that purpose, with completion rewards increasing with difficulty level. At this point, I don’t think that is necessary for Defiance. Based on my current skill level, I have found the game to be fairly well balanced, and just think some tweaking here and there can help alleviate this issue.

    The primary thing I would like to see is the restart mechanic for this mission given the boot. Every other mission and emergency maintain your point of progress if you end up needing to extract after a defeat. Changing that now seems too much like an artificial barrier and difficulty gimmick. Barriers and gimmicks may be necessary in games (at least they were 20 years ago), but a player should never feel like they ran smack dap into one, and unfortunately, this does. So, the mechanic either needs to go and a normal extraction point that saves your progress put in place or the self-recovery cooldown needs to be removed so that the S-R is always available during this mission.

    Also, as I mentioned above, Rosa ends up being pretty useless in this mission and her in-battle comments do not really mesh with the fact that she does nothing during the boss battle phases – not even being a good meat shield. As has been mentioned, once the adds and boss see the player character, they focus fire on the PC and not Rosa. I would either like to see her act as the smelter shooter, or for purposes of story, give our character the option of jumping down or remaining on the platform after the cutscene.

    Finally, lacking all else, make the missions co-optable. Personally, I like the trend of MMOs becoming more solo friendly the past few years, but I also like the fact that I can group when I want and need to. Even as instanced as SWTOR was for example, I could bring in a normal group to my character’s storyline areas if I wanted some camaraderie or help with a particularly difficult mission. The cutscene wouldn't even need to be re-worked, just use the group leader as the PC in the cutscenes.

    None of these would adversely affect the current difficulty of the mission for those who do enjoy it as is, but it would give options to those who cannot complete it the opportunity to do so and continue enjoying the storyline, as they should.

  3. #53
    Senior Member MacDeath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BJWyler View Post
    Agreed. The mechanics of the mission don’t necessarily bother me – it’s the implementation. First of all, what the heck is Rosa doing in the mission in the first place. She’s pretty useless compared to Cass and Cooper. If it’s for story, well, just like you, my character certainly would not rashly jump into a pit from which there was no way to jump out, so that kinda ruins the story of the mission right there for me. At the very least, Rosa should be igniting the smelters so that our character can focus on doing the damage to the adds and the boss. Part of the appeal of the game is the different progression mechanics in that we don’t “level” our characters, but instead “level” our tools. As such, every mission needs to be able to be completed without having to resort to a specific weapon type or perk-set.


    I don’t feel insulted, but I definitely do feel let down. I have been playing the game hardcore for the last two weeks – I have been enjoying it that much, even when I got my arse handed to me in a few of the missions. I was able to change my tactics and use the terrain around me to my advantage and strong points. I also think you may not be too far off with the tie in either – it’s one of the reasons that I finally decided to start playing the game. It has a solid main story arc and that alone is one of the reasons I enjoy it, and it’s one of the reasons that this mission has come to be so disappointing. The last shooter I played was the original Doom. Heck, in the tutorial I was pulling my hair out because I was shooting at stuff and just plain missing (the SWTOR auto aim and curving laser bolts really spoiled me), but once I got the hang of it, I could settle in to a good sniper theme, which I love. But that’s not my main point here.

    I know I will never get a gold trophy in the Time Challenges, and remain content when I get a Silver. I know I will probably never even get a silver or bronze in the Hotshot or Rampage challenges, no matter how hard I try. I know I will never be top notch in PvP, and will probably avoid it altogether so my lack of skill does not hurt the team unlucky enough to get me in the match. However, the one thing I should be able to look forward to is enjoying the story missions, side missions, emergencies, and ArkFall events. Unfortunately, due to this mission, I can no longer proceed with the first two, and the balloon is now deflated.

    This situation is not unusual for any game – there are those who think it something is too easy, while others think it’s too hard. Personally, I think anything that is integral to advancement in storyline in a game should be able to be completed by the playerbase, and believe this can be done without “dumbing down” an encounter for everyone. In some instances difficulty levels have been used by games to achieve that purpose, with completion rewards increasing with difficulty level. At this point, I don’t think that is necessary for Defiance. Based on my current skill level, I have found the game to be fairly well balanced, and just think some tweaking here and there can help alleviate this issue.

    The primary thing I would like to see is the restart mechanic for this mission given the boot. Every other mission and emergency maintain your point of progress if you end up needing to extract after a defeat. Changing that now seems too much like an artificial barrier and difficulty gimmick. Barriers and gimmicks may be necessary in games (at least they were 20 years ago), but a player should never feel like they ran smack dap into one, and unfortunately, this does. So, the mechanic either needs to go and a normal extraction point that saves your progress put in place or the self-recovery cooldown needs to be removed so that the S-R is always available during this mission.

    Also, as I mentioned above, Rosa ends up being pretty useless in this mission and her in-battle comments do not really mesh with the fact that she does nothing during the boss battle phases – not even being a good meat shield. As mentioned, once the adds and boss see my character, they focus fire on me and not her. I would either like to see her act as the smelter shooter, or for purposes of story, give our character the option of jumping down or remaining on the platform after the cutscene.

    Finally, lacking all else, make the missions co-optable. Personally, I like the trend of MMOs becoming more solo friendly the past few years, but I also like the fact that I can group when I want and need to. Even as instanced as SWTOR was for example, I could bring in a normal group to my character’s storyline areas if I wanted some camaraderie or help with a particularly difficult mission.

    None of these would adversely affect the current difficulty of the mission for those who do enjoy it as it, but it would give options to those who cannot complete it the opportunity to do so and continue enjoying the storyline, as they should.
    It does seem silly that in an MMO you can't call in a friend to help with this mission. Lots of players won't have picked a build that works well for this mission and it's silly that they should re-spec for ONE mission.
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  4. #54
    Member BJWyler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacDeath View Post
    It does seem silly that in an MMO you can't call in a friend to help with this mission. Lots of players won't have picked a build that works well for this mission and it's silly that they should re-spec for ONE mission.
    Indeed - that is a good point I forgot to mention. In fact, I ended up paying about 6,000 scrip to respec my character to be more durable and it still didn't help (along with attempting many of the suggestions in tips and guides people have posted). Now, if I want to get back to my preferred specs, it's another 6,000 scrip. That's a lot of cash to try to make up, thus time wasted.

  5. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Livia View Post
    Does anyone know if you can group for this quest? I mean, someone who has already tried?
    No, you're on your own. But don't fear, it's really not that hard to do once you learn his patterns and a few tricks. Fight smart, not hard and use the game's mechanics to your advantage.

  6. #56
    Member BJWyler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3rdpig View Post
    No, you're on your own. But don't fear, it's really not that hard to do once you learn his patterns and a few tricks. Fight smart, not hard and use the game's mechanics to your advantage.
    The problem for a lot of people is not the learning, but the execution. As many have said here and in other related threads, there's plenty of information on tricks to beat the mission, but for one reason or another they do not work for everyone. With the restrictions the mechanics place on this particular mission, as such it essentially prevents any further progress in the game.

    I and many others have no problem with perseverance. But you can only bang your head against a brick wall for so long before you realize that the pain and the cost of stitches is no longer worth the effort. I have no problem with a mission taking me 5 hours to complete so long as I can keep inching along in progression during that time. This mission does not allow for that, therefore the progression for a percentage of the playerbase stops, and that is not a good thing.

  7. #57
    Senior Member Calysia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BJWyler View Post
    First of all, what the heck is Rosa doing in the mission in the first place. She’s pretty useless compared to Cass and Cooper. If it’s for story, well, just like you, my character certainly would not rashly jump into a pit from which there was no way to jump out, so that kinda ruins the story of the mission right there for me. At the very least, Rosa should be igniting the smelters so that our character can focus on doing the damage to the adds and the boss. Part of the appeal of the game is the different progression mechanics in that we don’t “level” our characters, but instead “level” our tools. As such, every mission needs to be able to be completed without having to resort to a specific weapon type or perk-set.
    Rosa plays an important role...she draws the attention of the two NPCs so that YOU can ignite the smelters' fuel tanks. she also draws Joe's attention...essentially making the final part with him rather anti-climatic.

    As for comments about changing the encounter either by enabling grouping and/or restarting where you were after dying...that would just trivialize it.

    What should be done...as mentioned by a previous poster...is to make it a side mission. This encounter is the equivalent of raiding in other MMOs in which you can spend weeks trying to kill one boss. Which is why I disagree with changing the mechanics but raiding in these other games does not prevent one from enjoying the other content available in ALL other areas of the game. That's where Trion has made a huge mistake.

    Like others, I struggled with this encounter initially not even knowing about having to ignite the fuel tanks to lower Joe's shield. So I went and finished all the side missions I hadn't done and did Arkfalls to level up some more. When I did defeat him I'd just hit level 700 and my main weapon...assault rifles...skill was level 10. I think this is considerably higher than some of the other posters who beat him so if you're trying this encounter right after getting the quest you may want to level up some more.

    I found the first part to be pretty easy but then I also had lots of practice at it when I didn't know about igniting the fuel tanks...just don't get too far away from the crate and grab ammo from the supply on the floor whenever possible. Fortunately it's only one click to top it off. You don't have to channel it.

    The key to the second phase was meleeing the smelter as others have mentioned. I remapped my keys so that the melee key was easily accessible for me...which made a huge difference...and then just waited behind the crate on the right for the smelters to come to me. They always came around on the right and when they reached me one punch and one volley from my assault rifle sent them running off with their butt on fire. I then jumped on top of the crate and aimed my weapon at Joe as to get off as many rounds as possible when his shield dropped.

    Killing Joe was actually pretty easy. Just do as others have said and keep on the move. Get in shots when you can and then go hide behind something and let Rosa get aggro back...rinse and repeat.

    It is a very frustrating encounter and I did more than my fair share of swearing but I wouldn't have it any other way. However, it does need the be changed so that it's optional and the reward needs to match the effort...not some piss poor green piece.

  8. #58
    Member Iceberg's Avatar
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    It's pretty straight forward, the cut scene shows you what you were suppose to do. I got up on a mine cart and shot the tanks. Jumped down for cover and then went and killed the mobs. Kept repeating this until Joe jumped down. Kept the cart in between me and him and the fight was pretty easy. Roll a few times away from his shots but other than that, should not take any longer than 10 minutes tops.
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