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  1. #271
    Quote Originally Posted by Ea Rapture View Post
    Wow, that could be a really nice Idea!
    It'd be like printing money. Not exactly my ideal but not the end of the world, if that's what it takes.

    Dixie Cougar & Solicea, HAWT (Husband And Wife Team) | Consortium (PCNA) Leader & Founder | Est. July 2013

  2. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rashere View Post
    The latter is easy, fortunately. If it's got a red encryption icon, it wasn't born an oj and can't be upgraded.

    This is one of those tricky ones that I keep going back and forth on. The reasoning for the way it works currently is threefold:

    1) It's consistent with all other upgrades. You can only take an item up a single tier.

    2) True legendary drops are special and this helps preserve that.

    3) If we're going to err, better to err on the side of being too cautious. It's pretty easy to change our minds in the future and allow old epics to upgrade again. It would really suck to start that way, realize its flooding the game with supremes, and have to backpedal and turn that off.
    1. We never liked that idea in the first place.

    2. No it doesn't. It just allows your current low OJ drop rate to have a greater effect. It also will entice players to participate more when you increase the OJ drop rate once Supreme is released.

    3. You created a new revenue stream, and you want to limit the revenue stream? Did I read that correctly?

  3. #273
    Defiance Dev Rashere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dixie Cougar View Post
    None of us saw a new rarity tier coming. If we had, and we knew upgraded weapons would be stuck at legendary, rarity upgrades would not have been much of a thing.

    I hope you don't take it the wrong way, but having it implemented this way would definitely be a nasty surprise to a lot of people who ground out (or, even worse, bought with bits or PP) a lot of forge to make good weapons happen.
    Definitely a consideration. That actually brings up a point that I've been assuming, but realized I haven't enunciated.

    Supremes are intended to be rare and a lot of decisions about them come down to that. We aren't currently tuning content around people having them. They're certainly a nice bump, but existing legendaries will be just as useful the day after launch as they are right now.

    Over time, they'll become more plentiful since weapons and shields never go away. So, they'll accumulate and we may start making content based around that once they become relatively common. The goal, though, is to keep them special for a while and not immediately turn them into today's legendaries where everyone has a full loadout of them. I'd like to keep that thrill of earning a supreme and the pride of showing it off for a while. Players always amaze me at their ability to gather things, though, so we'll see how that works out.

    PvP is the one place where it could turn into an arms race and something we'll have to watch.

  4. #274
    Quote Originally Posted by Rashere View Post
    Definitely a consideration. That actually brings up a point that I've been assuming, but realized I haven't enunciated.

    Supremes are intended to be rare and a lot of decisions about them come down to that. We aren't currently tuning content around people having them. They're certainly a nice bump, but existing legendaries will be just as useful the day after launch as they are right now.

    Over time, they'll become more plentiful since weapons and shields never go away. So, they'll accumulate and we may start making content based around that once they become relatively common. The goal, though, is to keep them special for a while and not immediately turn them into today's legendaries where everyone has a full loadout of them. I'd like to keep that thrill of earning a supreme and the pride of showing it off for a while. Players always amaze me at their ability to gather things, though, so we'll see how that works out.

    PvP is the one place where it could turn into an arms race and something we'll have to watch.
    I know it's probably way beyond the scope of the current project, but the way another game might handle it is a lengthy series of activities, discrete component drops, and other tasks culminating in an account bound "Supreme Upgrade Kit" that could be combined with AF and applied to any weapon. That way at first you'd actually have to pick one or two guns instead of going hog wild, and you can be fairly liberal about what you let people do with said weapon (eg reroll multiple tiers, or have it be a formerly epic weapon made legendary, then supreme) without screwing up balance.

    For instance:

    Supreme Upgrade Kit. Costs 100 cores, 2500 arkforge, 10 million ark salvage, 1 million scrip, one arm, one leg, two left kidneys, three first born children, complete the story line and all the episode missions...

    You get the idea, minus the last few items.

    Dixie Cougar & Solicea, HAWT (Husband And Wife Team) | Consortium (PCNA) Leader & Founder | Est. July 2013

  5. #275
    I can see in theory that allowing purp-oj-supreme would flood the game with supremes. But when you factor in the af cost to go purp-oj then the rng (depending on af spent) to get to supreme, I don't see that being the case. Especially with the dreaded weekly af cap. Unless people buy af from the bit store, I don't see supremes as being available to the masses. Nice way to bring it back to the bit store. Well played, Trion. Well played.
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  6. #276
    Quote Originally Posted by Rashere View Post
    Definitely a consideration. That actually brings up a point that I've been assuming, but realized I haven't enunciated.

    Supremes are intended to be rare and a lot of decisions about them come down to that. We aren't currently tuning content around people having them. They're certainly a nice bump, but existing legendaries will be just as useful the day after launch as they are right now.

    Over time, they'll become more plentiful since weapons and shields never go away. So, they'll accumulate and we may start making content based around that once they become relatively common. The goal, though, is to keep them special for a while and not immediately turn them into today's legendaries where everyone has a full loadout of them. I'd like to keep that thrill of earning a supreme and the pride of showing it off for a while. Players always amaze me at their ability to gather things, though, so we'll see how that works out.

    PvP is the one place where it could turn into an arms race and something we'll have to watch.
    I can say with certainty that it will be an arms race for PVP as soon as its released. The same thing happened with cyber rigs, people grinded until they got the OJ rigs to have an edge. Everyone else had to catch up.
    Player name: Alexis Hassinger | EGO:6000 | Clan:CRONUS | Platform: PC | NA
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  7. #277
    Defiance Dev Rashere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dixie Cougar View Post
    I know it's probably way beyond the scope of the current project, but the way another game might handle it is a lengthy series of activities, discrete component drops, and other tasks culminating in an account bound "Supreme Upgrade Kit" that could be combined with AF and applied to any weapon. That way at first you'd actually have to pick one or two guns instead of going hog wild, and you can be fairly liberal about what you let people do with said weapon (eg reroll multiple tiers, or have it be a formerly epic weapon made legendary, then supreme) without screwing up balance.

    For instance:

    Supreme Upgrade Kit. Costs 100 cores, 2500 arkforge, 10 million ark salvage, 1 million scrip, one arm, one leg, two left kidneys, three first born children, complete the story line and all the episode missions...

    You get the idea, minus the last few items.
    Definitely. I would LOVE to do something like this, but as you noted, its significantly beyond scope.

  8. #278
    We shouldn't be punished for playing the game and upgrading weapons prior to supreme being added. This epic born oj restriction should count for weapons made after supreme is added to the game...so disappointing.

  9. #279
    Quote Originally Posted by Chump Norris View Post
    We shouldn't be punished for playing the game and upgrading weapons prior to supreme being added. This epic born oj restriction should count for weapons made after supreme is added to the game...so disappointing.
    Yeah, I agree. Let's try to think of possible solutions that address the "slow introduction" design intent. I need to ponder this further.

    Remember how old salvage matrix operations would actually take elapsed time? For instance, 10 minutes to add a mod slot to an item. Rashere, I assume this system was gone by the time you joined the team, but doubtless you've heard of it. And the code probably still exists somewhere. Maybe it's still being used with all the time settings turned down to 1 second.

    What if there was a time gate associated with turning weapons supreme? It would add a certain extra dimension to the decision to invest more or less forge in trying to upgrade the weapon in addition to slowing the rate of supreme weapon appearances enough to allow for upgrading encrypted guns.

    I could see it being frustrating, but not as much as being stuck at zero potential for many guns.

    Dixie Cougar & Solicea, HAWT (Husband And Wife Team) | Consortium (PCNA) Leader & Founder | Est. July 2013

  10. #280
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    So design the more difficult content before you release the Supreme weapons... maybe?

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