Understanding contracts!

[Elandriel]

the bunker is the first co op mission. i believe its bunker east...and the challenge today was collect optic sights from the delta bunker east. well back to the basics. not just any npc will give the sight. its the rifleman that does.

as for the rioters i didnt search here for defiance rioters. i start a contract like this. it says collect whatever from farm rioters. well from doing arkfalls i know the farms are in the lower left portion of the map. so i go there. then i target different the different enemies to see if one had a title with rioter in it. they did. so instead of driving around to look for different farms with rioters i quickly did that area 4 times. its grinding yeah but still quicker than driving around forever instead of spending 20 min doing it much faster.

there was one for collecting shield material from miners called goldrushers today. i dont pay attention to what im collecting so much but i look at is the title of the enemy im collecting from. i had seen some goldrushers in a co op map but im not doing those long missions 5-6 times so i waited for a arkfall with the ninety niners. got it in 10 minutes. its like a puzzle dude. dont let the "oh sh^t it dont tell me where to go" way of thinking over shadow the easy ways to finding these things

Thanks.

But you have just proved my point. You have to remember or use some "strange" logic to succeed. If you will go and look at the map, you will see that "farms" (at least what looks like a proper, visible, logical farm) are on N and NE side of the Madera.That's the logic I used and (almost) failed.
There are quite a lot of different NPCs in this game. Am I expected to memorize every one of them? And locations, and events and all other relevant things? My memory is not that good.

I understand them wanting us to do more than just go to the zone that is circled on our map and kill everything there. It's called "something that works brilliantly in TSW". And maybe that is the reason I find this system so poor. TSW requires a extensive search and a lot of logical mind to find a lot of things for their quests. BUT, they give you tools to do so. You know there is information to obtain about these things if you search for it.
Where can I search for information about Defiance? Where are NPCs listed so I can know that "Bigbuttforhead" is a robot I met once and is located under the bridge to SF?
I have never had so much trouble finding relevant info on net. Do I really have to wait for arkfalls.com to do their work before I can enjoy my time in not spending it on pointless searches? Pointless meaning there is no info on net to find to begin with.

Edit: So you would understand me better: How would you approach farm contract, if you didn't remember meeting a rioter and didn't even know they existed in the game?

Edit2: did you know bunker was Co-op mission and you did it to complete a contract, or did you accidentally finish contract by finishing Co-op? And how to know it's a Co-op mission?

[kajun mulisha]

Thanks.

But you have just proved my point. You have to remember or use some "strange" logic to succeed. If you will go and look at the map, you will see that "farms" (at least what looks like a proper, visible, logical farm) are on N and NE side of the Madera.That's the logic I used and (almost) failed.
There are quite a lot of different NPCs in this game. Am I expected to memorize every one of them? And locations, and events and all other relevant things? My memory is not that good.

I understand them wanting us to do more than just go to the zone that is circled on our map and kill everything there. It's called "something that works brilliantly in TSW". And maybe that is the reason I find this system so poor. TSW requires a extensive search and a lot of logical mind to find a lot of things for their quests. BUT, they give you tools to do so. You know there is information to obtain about these things if you search for it.
Where can I search for information about Defiance? Where are NPCs listed so I can know that "Bigbuttforhead" is a robot I met once and is located under the bridge to SF?
I have never had so much trouble finding relevant info on net. Do I really have to wait for arkfalls.com to do their work before I can enjoy my time in not spending it on pointless searches? Pointless meaning there is no info on net to find to begin with.

Edit: So you would understand me better: How would you approach farm contract, if you didn't remember meeting a rioter and didn't even know they existed in the game?

Edit2: did you know bunker was Co-op mission and you did it to complete a contract, or did you accidentally finish contract by finishing Co-op? And how to know it's a Co-op mission?

http://www.ign.com/maps/defiance/world

if you look over the map and have ever seen a farm/ over head map of farm area, its kinda obvious that the majority of farm looking area is in the lower left of the map. i dont see that i proved your point. its not some strange logic, its looking at details and putting 2 and 2 together.

to reply to your first edit...i didnt remember the rioter. i saw the npc but never paid attention to his name. i remembered the farm. which is to me easy to see from the map. and i went there and checked the npc's names till i found one.

your second edit...i did the first co op mission on launch day before the contract was even out. and the name of the mission isnt bunker nor does it have the word bunker in it. it gives the name of it on your screen when you enter the mission. i remembered. then went back to seek what npc would most likely have optic sights..

the game wasnt made to be easy and just walked through...but still most people have got far in the game in alot of different aspects. between reading the clues in the description and maybe asking a question here, i dont see how it could be to hard. hard enough for people to blow it this far out of focus.

[Elandriel]

http://www.ign.com/maps/defiance/world

if you look over the map and have ever seen a farm/ over head map of farm area, its kinda obvious that the majority of farm looking area is in the lower left of the map. i dont see that i proved your point. its not some strange logic, its looking at details and putting 2 and 2 together.

to reply to your first edit...i didnt remember the rioter. i saw the npc but never paid attention to his name. i remembered the farm. which is to me easy to see from the map. and i went there and checked the npc's names till i found one.

your second edit...i did the first co op mission on launch day before the contract was even out. and the name of the mission isnt bunker nor does it have the word bunker in it. it gives the name of it on your screen when you enter the mission. i remembered. then went back to seek what npc would most likely have optic sights..

the game wasnt made to be easy and just walked through...but still most people have got far in the game in alot of different aspects. between reading the clues in the description and maybe asking a question here, i dont see how it could be to hard. hard enough for people to blow it this far out of focus.

You keep talking about easy or hard. Ok, I guess that's so you can feel better. I am talking about helpful or not. I am talking about relying on more than luck to find something in reasonable time.

Farm contract is such an example. You remembered being on a farm in the south, went there and found rioter. I've been on all those farms except the ones at the far SW. And where do you think I found my rioters at the end? On the NE side. So, yes it's luck with good memory. I am willing to spend my time going from farm to farm to get the required amount for contract. But to spend this time trying to have a lucky draw and find the NPC at the exact moment you are at the site, is not something I am willing to do.

Bunker... again...remember or "die trying".

Tell your friend to go and bring you 2 cans from 3rd isle from big market. But you don't tell him which market or which isle you re thinking about. Now let's see him bringing you those cans.
Having to spend hours finding something does not equate hard. It's moronic. A better info system, NPC database, wiki that actually has something or any other source of information would help a lot.

[Nepumuk]

Arkfalls is your friend!

http://www.arkfalls.com/

This seems to be a very nice site, but I could not find any information concerning the topic about contracts. Is it within the leveling guides? But they seem to only cover up to EGO 250, so I guess they don't deal with contracts yet.

[DustOfDeath]

tho is there anythign even worth buying.. .considering how slow the rep currency builds up,.

The stores... really didnt have anythign special.

[Atticus Finch]

There is a sticky on the top of the forums that addresses contracts

[Atticus Finch]

You keep talking about easy or hard. Ok, I guess that's so you can feel better. I am talking about helpful or not. I am talking about relying on more than luck to find something in reasonable time.

Farm contract is such an example. You remembered being on a farm in the south, went there and found rioter. I've been on all those farms except the ones at the far SW. And where do you think I found my rioters at the end? On the NE side. So, yes it's luck with good memory. I am willing to spend my time going from farm to farm to get the required amount for contract. But to spend this time trying to have a lucky draw and find the NPC at the exact moment you are at the site, is not something I am willing to do.

Bunker... again...remember or "die trying".

Tell your friend to go and bring you 2 cans from 3rd isle from big market. But you don't tell him which market or which isle you re thinking about. Now let's see him bringing you those cans.
Having to spend hours finding something does not equate hard. It's moronic. A better info system, NPC database, wiki that actually has something or any other source of information would help a lot.

Elandriel,

When I first started contracts I also had some frustration because I was looking for raiders on docks and I didn't know which docks they were referring to. I only progressed to Madera up until that point and I know there are raiders on docks in Madera. No luck, but long story short, I did eventually complete other contracts though I couldn't complete the raider/dock one.

Was it a bit frustrating that I couldn't figure out the contract? Sure at first. But after playing for a bit I figured it out and completed some contracts.

There's no doubt they could probably make the contract system a little better or easier to understand and I'm sure they will in time (hopefully). At the same time, I think part of the point of contracts and gaining reputation is going out of your way and figuring something out so you can get some better gear or get something that everyone else doesn't have

[jubakumbi]

I am happy there are parts of the game that don't lead you by the hand as to where to go and what to do.

Having a way point and walk through for every little things gets old fast.

[Warg]

Contracts are a nice addition to normal questing and add a new way of getting new and better gear. But first, you have to do them.
Like many other MMO developers, Trion has decided to not give us any real tutorials and help besides the most basic ones, and to let us discover all little things games has to offer. Of course the only reasons for this being their desire for profit over anything else and an artificial way for prolonging the play time.

"Collect 20 something from soldiers in Delta bunker." This is all my contract says in ways of my mission. Great! I know where Delta bunker is. Let's go there.
After clearing west and east side of Delta bunker twice of everything that moved, I still don't have even one single piece of whatever I was supposed to collect. Oh, and there were no soldiers, just mutants.

"Collect 15 something from scrappers in Scrapworks". Who are scrappers? Where is scrapworks? Oh, let me use my map ... no, only useful for general orientation, even though it's a map.
Let's use our info page. No, even less useful. Web ... no help. Defiance page ... you have to be joking.

"Collect 15 something from rioters on farms." Great, which farms? After 30 minutes of driving around, guessing what constitutes as a farm for Trion, I found one. Accidentally, I might add. I killed 10 NPCs on every "farm" I visited before that to see if they give me what I am supposed to collect. No luck there. And I did the same here and just as I was about to go for the next patch of strange terrain according to my map (that is the only way to navigate on this map) which I thought should be a farm, I accidentally got my first piece of "something".
"Wait, what, who did I just kill to get this?". After several minutes of continuous killing and not getting anything more, I found out. It's that "shield guy". But I need 15 of those thingies! So I will have to wait for 4 (!) of those repeatable quests to gather 15 pieces.
And I don't think those "shieldies" are called rioters, as the contract suggests.

So is this a new, ingenious way of artificially prolonging our game time, or is this just another example of Trion's "it's good as is" philosophy?

How are you supposed to find locations and NPCs required for contracts if info on contracts and everything else in this game is so vague? Farms are good example of that. I am either required to memorize every single location I have visited or make my own locations list, but even that doesn't make it logical. Farm is every piece of cultivated land, so I should visit and try my luck at every piece of such a land? And there is a lot of it in Defiance. Are we really supposed to drive all over the map, shooting left and right in hopes of accidentally killing the right one?

Weekly contracts, I would understand. But for one daily to take 2 hours to complete, of which only a portion of time is spent for actually fulfilling the contract and majority of time is pent on circumventing an idiotic map and info system, is too much. What about those that play for 1-2 hours per day? Are they supposed to do just one thing. Either PVE or one contract. Either co-op or one contract? For a game that was made for casual player, it sure demands a lot of time to do repeatable quests.
Is this the way contracts are supposed to be seen. As end-game PVE thing?

You will find that many of the locations are in fact in the co-ops.

[Elandriel]

Elandriel,

...

There's no doubt they could probably make the contract system a little better or easier to understand and I'm sure they will in time (hopefully). At the same time, I think part of the point of contracts and gaining reputation is going out of your way and figuring something out so you can get some better gear or get something that everyone else doesn't have

And that is why I mentioned TSW in one of my previous posts. Finding relevant information about quests through different ways is one of the best parts of TSW. I mean one of their first quests is finding a code for opening a phone. The code is the number of a church song which should have been the first on Sunday mass. And it took a little investigation to find where those numbers are displayed. You can't imagine my satisfaction when I discovered many of the quests will be like that.
But it works there! You have tools and more importantly, you know that information you are looking for is out there, and it has been put out there for this exact reason.

Here, we are talking about a system that expects you remember everything and everyone you encountered so far. For a daily! Maybe I am wrong but isn't a daily something that you are capable of doing every day?
How is someone with 1-2 hours/day supposed to do them? One contract per day? Maybe it's just the fact that I don't understand.
Another example where proper communication tools would help a lot.