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  1. #1
    Member WhiteStrike's Avatar
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    Back to the roots

    Introduction


    Over the years, PvP as suffered a lot of changes:
    • Weapon rarity and rolls had no effect in PvP;
    • Weapon rolls and rarity now work in PvP.
    • All weapons have a 65% damage reduction on body shots.
    • All weapons have an overall damage reduction based on their weapon class. (current iteration)

    My plan to address PvP's issues is to merge the first iteration of PvP with the most recent one.



    Suggested Changes


    My plan is to create the following conditions for PvP:
    • Cyber Rigs, weapon rolls, weapon synergies and weapon rarity would have no effect in PvP;
    • Weapon Mods would affect weapons in PvP;
    • The overall damage reduction would stay in PvP but the body shot damage reduction would have to be toned down;
    • Crouching cooldown of 1 second;
    • Masteries would either have no effect in PvP or would be normalized to a certain rarity tier, ie. A Supreme mastery would have the same effect as a Common mastery.
    • Perks would work as they do now;
    • Nanos would work as they do now (although I wouldn't oppose to Bio's slow becoming 30% instead of 95% so that Sludge spam wouldn't be so powerful).


    I will justify these changes:

    Cyber Rigs are hard to balance because not only are the Bitstore Jackpot variants much stronger than their Expo counterparts, but they also tend to have abilities based around PvE content, which can make them obnoxious to fight against (ex: the Electrocutioner Cyber Rig). Cyber Chips are also terribly balanced between each other.

    Weapon Rarity and Rolls make PvP more about getting the unicorn gun than getting good mechanical skills and tactics. If spending time/money to get a certain gun with certain rolls is a better time investment than spending hundreds of hours learning how to properly play PvP then you have a problem. PvP is supposed to be about skill, not who has the biggest gun, remember that. This isn't a turn-based RPG, it's a shooter.

    While synergies always worked in PvP, even in its first iteration, they used to be somewhat balanced. We had synergies like Grenadier, Rolling Thunder, Assassin and Cannoneer, synergies that gave minor boosts to one category, allowing specialization and interesting gun possibilities. Then, power creep arrived, and now we have synergies such as Isotropic Decay and Cleansing Napalm, synergies that are impossible to balance simply because they're caused by PvE's power creep. As such, Synergies should have no place in PvP.

    Weapon mods are exactly the same as they did back in the beginning of the game so they remain the same. While you could argue that mod rarity plays a role in a gun's power, which I agree, there are weapons that benefit from not having a set tier of mods, namely burst weapons and their interaction with Magazine mods or weapons based around Ego on full reload. Since Legendary mods are relatively simple to obtain an due to the previously mentioned reasons, these could stay the same.

    To avoid the return of Explosive wars, the weapon class damage reduction could stay as is, as it gives the developers freedom to balance weapon classes easily.

    The body shot damage reduction could then be toned down, since the main power creep factors have been addressed and as such weapon damage as been normalized. You could argue that we could still keep the crit-based PvP, but since roll spamming and crouch spamming exist, which is only a real problem in the crit-based PvP since shooting these animations in the body isn't too hard, it's best to return to then body shot based PvP while still leaving some room for crit based PvP.

    Crouching would need a cooldown to avoid it's spamming in Sniper battles;

    Masteries are tied to Weapon Rarity so they should either be disabled. Not to mention, they can break some balancing points in Semi-Auto Sniper Rifles. That is, unless they're normalized to Common values in PvP, in which case they'll provide some minor but noticeable boosts that wouldn't break balance while allowing for some diversity.

    Perks aren't very problematic so they can stay the same;

    Nanos could stay as they are. Since Cyber Rigs and rolls have been removed, the overall nano trigger rate will take a massive hit. However, this means that dedicated nano proc weapons will have some use, such has the Disruptor and Nano-line of weapons (Ultimag, the Nano charge shotgun, etc). Bio could have a weaker slowing effect though, as 95% movement speed reduction for just a bit less weapon damage is not a balanced trade off, especially since Sludge RLs and Corrupters exist.



    What would this accomplish?


    These changes would change PvP in the following ways:
    • Blast Rifles would have some serious recoil to balance their power;
    • Sawn-off Shotguns would have high power but due to the absence of Reload and Mag rolls, they would be a high-risk, high-reward weapon, as they would be able to fire at most one powerful shot every 2 seconds;
    • Semi-Auto Sniper Rifles would finally be balanced: the absense of Recoil, Fire Rate and Crit rolls would make them powerful weapons in the hands of skilled marksman but not worth it for those unable to tame their recoil to get those headshots. Their damage could be tweaked to require 2 headshots to kill, which would be balanced due to their recoil. Rangers would be incredibly powerful but one of the hardest to use weapons. Don't believe me? Try headshotting twice in one tap someone with a Ranger with no Recoil rolls, no Fire Rate rolls and without a Cyber Rig at any decent range;
    • Bolt-Action Sniper Rifles would be slow, low mag or long reload weapons due to the only source of Reload / Mag bonuses being their mods. Due to the return of body shot based PvP, they wouldn't be overpowered as they could get mowed down by Assault Rifle and SAW users if they engage badly.
    • Swords would be more counter-able on consoles due to the return of body shot based PVP;
    • Explosives would remain the same since weapon class damage multipliers still apply, meaning the game wouldn't return to Boomer wars.
    • The Thunder would be incredible at holding down choke points due to it's innate high mag, low recoil and the return of body shot PvP. It would have a long reload and be beaten easily at close range though, due to it's bad hip-fire capabilities;
    • Blast Bolters would be much weaker due to the lack of Recoil, Crit, Damage and Fire Rate rolls, making it a good beginner weapon but outclassed by other snipers in the hands of skilled players;
    • Due to the lack of access of Crit rolls to all weapons, Wolfhounds would be devastating in choke points in the hands of highly skilled players but useless to the average player, due to their innate high crit DPS but low body shot DPS. This would mean they would beat Assault Rifles and Light Machine guns at close-medium range but lose to SMGs and Shotguns at close range;
    • Pump Shotguns would have high power but due to the lack of Mag and Reload rolls, and especially the lack of Mag masteries, they would require some planning and benefit hit and run tactics due to their Reload - Shoot dynamics;
    • Combat Shotguns would have medium power and good mag size and reload, being good defensive weapons. Due to the Pump Shotgun situation described above, they would no longer be downgrades to Pump Shotguns;
    • Due to the return of the body shot PvP, BMGs would be able to heal effectively teammates well and finish off very low HP targets easily. This newfound power is however countered by the lack of Heal Charge, Damage Charge, Reload and Link Range rolls, making BMGs weapons that require the ability to observe a battle and understanding when it's time to heal instead of weapons you just hold the trigger with, and also meaning that infinite charge BMGs wouldn't break BMG balance;
    • The SAW and Assault Carbine would have high damage per shot making crit shots devastating but also very high recoil, requiring trigger discipline to counter balance their power;
    • SMGs would be powerful and easily kill players at close range but easily be beaten by Assault Rifles at medium range and destroyed by Pump Shotguns if they get to close to their target, making them weapons designed to dance with the engagement range. They would beat Blast Rifles easily in the hands of skilled players but lose in the hands of the average player;
    • Mass Blasters would still be quite powerful but the lack of Recoil, Reload and Mag rolls would make their power short lived and easily beaten by long lasting SMGs, such as the Nomad SMG and the Pulser.

  2. #2
    Member DEATHBRINGER210's Avatar
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    and how would this balance the spamming pumpkin launcher ? how do balance 12 pumpkins coming at u? and do you fix the instant reload ?

  3. #3
    Member WhiteStrike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DEATHBRINGER210 View Post
    and how would this balance the spamming pumpkin launcher ? how do balance 12 pumpkins coming at u? and do you fix the instant reload ?
    Since Masteries are disabled, it would only have 1 mag.

  4. #4
    Member DEATHBRINGER210's Avatar
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    t1 damage stats and mods on all guns, no rolls either ,nades, and t1 shields cap with no nano res or syns . no cyber rigs . no stims. no spikes. no crit multi . good snipers are still getting head shots. add even more recoil to rockets and dets . unpatch the last not fix for the perma bio glitch . fix the perma bio glitch. bio will be just fine as is after that. adjust weapons damage stats after a little testing phase . im game for that . even tho pvp is in a pretty good place right now . only about a hand full of guns need adjustments . and something needs to be done balance cyber rigs.

  5. #5
    Member DEATHBRINGER210's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhiteStrike View Post
    Since Masteries are disabled, it would only have 1 mag.
    good fix . it still doesnt solve instant reload part . or solve the extra mag on dc3,thumper, zaggers ,or snuggies

  6. #6
    Member WhiteStrike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DEATHBRINGER210 View Post
    good fix . it still doesnt solve instant reload part . or solve the extra mag on dc3,thumper, zaggers ,or snuggies
    "Sawn-off Shotguns would have high power but due to the absence of Reload and Mag rolls, they would be a high-risk, high-reward weapon, as they would be able to fire at most one powerful shot every 2 seconds"

    I adressed that. Rolls wouldn't have any effect. Therefore, no super fast reload RLs or multi-mag sawn-offs.

  7. #7
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    WHY WOULD YOU DISREGARD RIGS AND MASTERIES?? completely disagree
    ill start with sawed offs? every used a snuggie? if not do it and come tell me how you did.
    A shotgun is high risk high reward. you get close more chance of death.
    rigs make things personalised. for example in cod you have hardened to shoot through stuff, so you can play a certain way.
    masterties are the same thing. nuff sed

    Crouch cooldown? really? why dont you make it so we cant move too. because you can move left and right in them too.

    Now i dont want to seem like im attcking you, so pls do reply. i just think it would ruin pvp
    6K the Hard Way

  8. #8
    Member DEATHBRINGER210's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhiteStrike View Post
    "Sawn-off Shotguns would have high power but due to the absence of Reload and Mag rolls, they would be a high-risk, high-reward weapon, as they would be able to fire at most one powerful shot every 2 seconds"

    I adressed that. Rolls wouldn't have any effect. Therefore, no super fast reload RLs or multi-mag sawn-offs.
    remove t4 mag rolls got it. i never said rolls had anything to do with the instant reload.

  9. #9
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    Dont like most of your ideas ,crouching ,sawed off ,masteries just to name a few . I think individual damage reduction on weapon types and syn would be better ,snipers are useless in pvp now except a blast bolter they need to be fixed so body shots actually do some damage ,but i agree pvp was better when it was just the common syns.

  10. #10
    Member DEATHBRINGER210's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hate View Post
    Dont like most of your ideas ,crouching ,sawed off ,masteries just to name a few . I think individual damage reduction on weapon types and syn would be better ,snipers are useless in pvp now except a blast bolter they need to be fixed so body shots actually do some damage ,but i agree pvp was better when it was just the common syns.
    i have seen a lot of quick repeaters , and bolt action repeaters . in pvp getting head shots

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