My post, I hope you enjoy

[Soulvak]

I'm saying if wow had no rise of power etc. was same as defiance made so a first time 10 mins in player can do things play against someone who was here for weeks yet still have a chance beating them. Can join in do anything game has to offer. If wow had a system like that and you took all it's content from launch fights quests all that. You'd do it in under a month. Not the average player but the people that race through everything who are the majority of people that have issues with content (note i never said all but majority) Defiance was set up stated before launch to not have that sort of increase your power or whatever you want to call it in whatever game. Increasing your EGO rating is a goal. Maxing out weapon classes a goal There are others. Before you say something like Ego is boring or don't count. That is like saying killing mobs in wow to increase a level is boring or does not count. Ego might not go "OMGZZ YOU KILLED 3333333 chickens USE DIS NEW WEP" but it will open extra perk slots help you unlock more, that's a goal. in fact there is a whole page with goals under season one which makes it obvious there are more to come...

[Anim]

Perhaps that was the case either way that is only 8 weeks or two months of 'content' which is a misnomer as time sink != content,

I love this, 'i was completely wrong but my point still stands!'. Defiance is the king of time sinks, kill 10000 enemies in major arkfalls to get 15 ego rating... I'm sorry but developing new tactics and learning how to beat an encounter is much better content than holding left click for x number of hours.

If you think you're going to get anywhere near even a days worth of stuff out of all the episode missions combined you're going to be dissapointed.

[Anim]

I'm saying if wow had no rise of power etc. was same as defiance made so a first time 10 mins in player can do things play against someone who was here for weeks yet still have a chance beating them. Can join in do anything game has to offer. If wow had a system like that and you took all it's content from launch fights quests all that. You'd do it in under a month. Not the average player but the people that race through everything who are the majority of people that have issues with content (note i never said all but majority) Defiance was set up stated before launch to not have that sort of increase your power or whatever you want to call it in whatever game. Increasing your EGO rating is a goal. Maxing out weapon classes a goal There are others. Before you say something like Ego is boring or don't count. That is like saying killing mobs in wow to increase a level is boring or does not count. Ego might not go "OMGZZ YOU KILLED 3333333 chickens USE DIS NEW WEP" but it will open extra perk slots help you unlock more, that's a goal. in fact there is a whole page with goals under season one which makes it obvious there are more to come...

You're hurting your own arguement here. If for some reason you did take away all the RPG elements of WoW and started people with the best gear in the game at max level it would still take them 30 days to finish it all? Not true but I'll go with it for now, then you compare it to those hardcore of the most hardcore in Defiance who finished it in a day, that's still 30x the play time comparing an 8 year old release on its launch day vs a modern game released last week.

Some of the big part of why it took people so long though wasnt levelling or gear, it was learning HOW to do the encounters. Trial and error, improving your own skill etc. Nothing in Defiance is remotely a challenge for anyone thats played an fps for more than a few months.

[Soulvak]

Actually i'm not hurting my arguement as part of my arguement mentioned a bigger dev team with more budget which in turn says they can add more content easier There is little skill in WOW. it's press this button. I'm not even WOW bashing, I enjoyed playing it for years before I stopped. I'm making a point. you're grasping at straws.

[Anim]

Actually i'm not hurting my arguement as part of my arguement mentioned a bigger dev team with more budget which in turn says they can add more content easier There is little skill in WOW. it's press this button. I'm not even WOW bashing, I enjoyed playing it for years before I stopped. I'm making a point. you're grasping at straws.

Your point is that they had more people to develop wow, that doesnt detract from the point that theres nothing to do in Defiance once you've played a few days, it's just a fact.

Theres skill in every game, if you think you're good enough to be in the top wow guilds by just installing the game you'd be in for a sad suprise. I'm a competitive fps player and even I think this game is less skillful than wow :\

[Soulvak]

With a larger dev team there is more and quicker out content which in turn makes more to do. I think that's pretty clear.

[Anim]

With a larger dev team there is more and quicker out content which in turn makes more to do. I think that's pretty clear.

I'm not argueing that, my point is that you could take out raiding and instances in wow at launch and still have more to do in it than Defiance. With more character depth, itemization, exploration etc etc. Unless Defiance had a studio of 10 then they spent 5 years spending a lot of time merely making it work on multiple platforms (without even having integration).

[Soulvak]

I won't argue with things like char depth exploration, but typical things to do content, when you put time took to make and the amount of people on the team, compare it to wow, without leveling, it turns out around the same. If wow spent same time with same smaller team the game would have been nothing like it was at launch.

On a side not, it has been a nice change disagreeing without the usual aggressive flamed hate responses that so often end up coming up.

[Anim]

I won't argue with things like char depth exploration, but typical things to do content, when you put time took to make and the amount of people on the team, compare it to wow, without leveling, it turns out around the same. If wow spent same time with same smaller team the game would have been nothing like it was at launch.

On a side not, it has been a nice change disagreeing without the usual aggressive flamed hate responses that so often end up coming up.

Plenty of raging morons on both sides of the fence :P The people who actually have some sense and knowledge about the subject will rarely get all heated about it.

Honestly, I dont know quite how many people were working on both games during their development time. WoW had an initial budget of $60m, rift was $50m and Defiance is unknown at this time but with SyFy support along with Dodge I can imagine it still being quite high. The real issue is whether they were pushed to release this in time for the show which couldnt be postponed? There was almost the making for interesting PvE content (motherlode) but it looks as though its as far as they got pre-release.

[Alyn]

Hey folks,

We've reopened the thread, but ask that you ensure your posts are on topic, civil and constructive at all times.

Thanks!