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  1. #1

    2050 Weapon System Analysis


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    (UPDATED: Text Analysis added to post along with community feedback that was missed and the above image)
    After multiple tests with different weapon types and the systems around those weapons, i have put together information about the systems, how they work, how they could effect end game, how the drop system works as of Closed Beta Test 2, and what doesn't work and seems to be creating issues with your favorite weapons. All of this information has been put together for the community and Trion itself to view in both video and text format below and if you find the information useful, please post a comment below and help bring this to Trions attention.



    Weapon System Analysis:

    Weapons in Defiance 2050 as of Closed Beta 2 have multiple different systems in place that make the weapon what it is. Firstly each weapon has a Power Rating which averaged across all equipped gear effects how well players will be able to perform in combat relative to the Power Rating of the Area they are located in. This also effects the Power Rating of items that drop in the environment to progress character progress. The Power Rating system is very reminiscent to how DC Universe Online or Destiny determines Champion Rating or Light level as an example. Weapons also have a Weapon Level which must be met to equip the weapon to the character. Each Weapon Level in Defiance 2050 has a Power Rating Minimum and Maximum. For example (demonstration purposes and not actual stats) a Weapon Level 1 may have a Power Rating of 1 - 50 while a Weapon Level 2 may have a Power Rating of 40 - 100 . What determines what the Power Rating for that Weapon Level is the Tier of that Weapon. The Tier is displayed as a number of stars from 1 - 10, 1 being Tier 1 with the lowest stats and 10 Being Tier 10 with the highest stats. Back to our original example, if a Weapon Level is 1 then a Tier 1 weapon would be 1-5 Power Rating a Tier 2 weapon would be 6-10 Power Rating and so on so forth (example only). Weapons also have a Color Rarity from white, green, blue, purple, and orange associated with them that determines the Weapon Bonuses amount. This is where the weapon systems start breaking apart. The Color Rarity should determine either how many Weapon Bonuses a weapon has or how good the Weapon Bonuses are at base value. Instead it doesn't do either but is exclusively used to determine how many times a weapon can be Enhanced.The Enhance System is used to add Mod Slots, Mods, and Increase the a Enhance Level of the weapon based on the Color Rarity of the weapon. A green Color Rarity weapon can be Enhanced up to an Enhance Level 5, a blue up to 10, and purple up to 15. The Enhance Level can be increased by adding Salvage Parts found in the environment. For each Enhance Level a weapon gains, the Power Rating is increased by 10 which also effects the Tier of the weapon. In the Enhance screen, Their are two numbers associated with how the Power Rating is calculated on the top right. The first number indicates the increase that the weapon has had based on the Enhance Level. The second number indicated with a "+ symbol in green shows the original Base Power Rating the weapon started with. However the Updated Tier only shows up in the Enhance System and will not show when the weapon is inspected. Weapon Points are gained for each Enhance Level a weapon receives which can be used to increase one of the weapons Weapon Bonuses. These can also be re rolled to player preference however once one has been re rolled, no other bonuses can be altered (which is a glitch). Mods can also be equipped to a weapon with Purified Gulanite to increase certain stats for the weapon but this does not effect the Tier or Power Rating of the weapon. Mods also have their own Power Rating values which don't appear to do anything to the weapon and Color Rarity which increases the mods bonuses relative to rarity color. Weapon Types also have a Weapon Type Rank which is passively increased over time with a weapon type usage. For example if you only use Assault Rifles, the passive Weapon Type rank will be high to grant increased passive stats on all Assault Rifles used. This further increases the damage, fire rate, accuracy and more for all weapons of the same type.

    Now that all of that is explained, none of the above information is relevant until end game (with the exception of Weapon Type Rank Passives). The Weapon Level is only useful to know if you can equip the weapon or not. Their is no reason to look at the Tier, Color Rarity, waste Weapon Salvage Parts, or increase the Enhance Level of a weapon until end game. The only thing that needs to be looked at until end game is the Power Rating of the weapon because it will determine what drops for you from other enemies in the area. Even increasing the Enhance Level of a Purple Color Rarity weapon the entire 15 ranks which will increase the weapons Power Rating by 150 serves no purpose until you have reached end game or start receiving the highest Weapon Level weapons. For this reason its convoluted and over-excessive how many systems are actually in place from the start of the game that serve no purpose until end game and to the average player not familiar with these systems, it makes it difficult to determine what he or she should be doing and prioritizing on without prior knowledge. Then there is the issue with Weapon Bonuses. Currently you can have a green weapon with better base weapon bonuses then a purple weapon which doesn't make any sense. This makes determining what the best weapon is an even more tedious experience then it already is. When end game is reached you need to take into consideration the weapons Power Rating, Weapon Level, Tier, Color Rating, the random Weapon Bonuses, Mod Rating, Mod Rarity, Enhance Level, and where the points should be spent for the Weapon Points. Then you add that the Enhance System changes the Tier and Power Rating things get even more complicated. That's only for one weapon. All this sounds like is a PVE and PVP balance nightmare.

    Then there are the issues with the drop system. Your characters Power Rating is supposed to be the average of both your weapons, your grenade, and your shield. Items then drop relative to that Power Rating to give you better items. In Closed Beta 2 the community was notified the Power Rating cap would be 1200 but the drop system eventually started dropping items that were 1 Power Rating higher 20 to 40 Power Rating below the characters average. The 1200 Power Rating was unobtainable (at least on PS4) due to the system not dropping items based on the average Power Rating and no where near what needed to be equipped to progress. The shields were also all glitched out showing up as level 1's throughout the whole Closed Beta which made it even more difficult to determine what should and shouldn't be used.

    With these problems on top of the issues with Color Rarity and Weapon Bonuses these systems need to be re-evaluated and the programming needs to be checked as the math isn't adding up the way it should be. Please bring this to the attention of Trion and let me know your thoughts below so we can raise more awareness of these issues. All of this is subject to change until the release of the final game but if there is something actually wrong with these systems, it needs to be addressed now before getting carried over to launch.

  2. #2

    Thread Update

    I have updated the original post with a typed up multi paragraph text Analysis of the information that is covered in the original video for those that cannot view the video or are looking for information directly on the forums. I look forward to your feedback. The entire system is really overly complicated.

  3. #3
    Member Ronin9572's Avatar
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    Currently you can have a green weapon with better base weapon bonuses then a purple weapon which doesn't make any sense. This makes determining what the best weapon is an even more tedious experience then it already is. When end game is reached you need to take into consideration the weapons Power Rating, Weapon Level, Tier, Color Rating, the random Weapon Bonuses, Mod Rating, Mod Rarity, Enhance Level, and where the points should be spent for the Weapon Points. Then you add that the Enhance System changes the Tier and Power Rating things get even more complicated. That's only for one weapon. All this sounds like is a PVE and PVP balance nightmare. Quoted from ChaoticD .
    I noticed the same thing. I had T1 (white) weapons with better stats than T2 (green) and T3 (blue) guns! This is crazy due to the fact that T1 guns don't have bonuses. I also believe that this could be exploited in trade (if/ when we get a trade system). As the OP and many others have said the weapons systems are overly complicated. Think this needs to be addressed before the game is released!

  4. #4
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    Biggest problem to weapons so far to me is the total inaccuracy they have,
    If you´re firing from the hip, you barely hit anything, bullet dispersion is totally of the charts.
    When you ADS, precision and accuracy are not that much better.

    In terms of behaviour i liked how snipers performed, now you can actually hit what you´re aiming for.

    The way that weapons perform must be in line with how they perform on Defiance, i mean comparing weapons in one game to another in its basic form, without mods.

    The light effects of the weapons must be toned down also, i had one submachine gun that when i was firing the light from the flash occupied half the screen and at the same time being blinding. This was a submachine identical to the Votan types we have on Defiance.
    Auto lobbers are blinding as hell, flash from explosions are to bright, too exagerated. don´t really understand why they keep those bright lights in explosions.
    There are a few more things that need to be fine tuned, but those are th things that i didn´t like at all.

  5. #5
    Member Ronin9572's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drackiller View Post
    Biggest problem to weapons so far to me is the total inaccuracy they have,
    If you´re firing from the hip, you barely hit anything, bullet dispersion is totally of the charts.
    When you ADS, precision and accuracy are not that much better.

    In terms of behaviour i liked how snipers performed, now you can actually hit what you´re aiming for.

    The way that weapons perform must be in line with how they perform on Defiance, i mean comparing weapons in one game to another in its basic form, without mods.

    The light effects of the weapons must be toned down also, i had one submachine gun that when i was firing the light from the flash occupied half the screen and at the same time being blinding. This was a submachine identical to the Votan types we have on Defiance.
    Auto lobbers are blinding as hell, flash from explosions are to bright, too exagerated. don´t really understand why they keep those bright lights in explosions.
    There are a few more things that need to be fine tuned, but those are th things that i didn´t like at all.
    Alot of good points there. Accuracy is terrible, while I'm not expecting to make 300 yard headshots with my pulsar this needs to be looked at. Bullet spread is off the charts! Muzzle flash for many of the guns was terrible. On occasion I'd lose my target for a second or two due to the flash. Reload times are off as well. Had a Thunder with a 3.6 reload and it was taking like 6 seconds to reload.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin9572 View Post
    Alot of good points there. Accuracy is terrible, while I'm not expecting to make 300 yard headshots with my pulsar this needs to be looked at. Bullet spread is off the charts! Muzzle flash for many of the guns was terrible. On occasion I'd lose my target for a second or two due to the flash. Reload times are off as well. Had a Thunder with a 3.6 reload and it was taking like 6 seconds to reload.
    Yeah forgot to talk about reloads, they were atrocious.
    Submachine guns were okayish but the rest, oh my...please just fix this.

    I understand the changes they made on synergies to (so they say) keep the inventory lighter but the weapons should at least have a similar behaviour as to the original defiance.

  7. #7
    Member WhiteStrike's Avatar
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    You can use Assault Expert to fix AR and SMG accuracy although that's a bandaid fix for a serious problem.

  8. #8
    Member Neutronenstern's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChaoticD View Post
    I have updated the original post with a typed up multi paragraph text Analysis of the information that is covered in the original video for those that cannot view the video or are looking for information directly on the forums. I look forward to your feedback. The entire system is really overly complicated.
    Thank you very much for this easy-to-understand analysis (video + text)
    I did not understand some parts of the system, but you explained that very well. (also for non-English speakers to understand well)

    I think this system is way too complicated. I don't think many beta testers have understood and tested it.
    My impression was: some mechanics doesn't work and what seems working doesn't make sense. Especially from a player's perspective ... I saw it in D13, players hang on the items in which they have invested a lot of time and effort. That's why we wanted to be able to upgrade our epics to supreme.
    I still can not see how it should be fun to put all my resources into an item that I just need to get the next item and then I can throw it away, and start all over again

    And then, let's imagine we have reached ego50 and have found the high-tier-high-powerrating-weapons and mods and all we need ... then comes an update and we can get to ego70 or 100

    My main concern is, that it gave me the feeling that I have to equip and use items I don't like. To increase my power rating I had to equip shields with less capacity and weapons with less damage. To get weaker items (with higher power rating) I had to spend all my salvage on gear which in turn became useless because of the lower power rating. At the latest now it makes this arkhunter unhappy.
    But it's not only that the items may be weaker ... we all know RNG ... what if I don't like shotguns and pistols but the highest power rating weapons I get are shotguns and pistols? I have to wait until I finally find a desired item or I've to play how I don't like and want to play ... I can not even trade for it.

    Also, I heard of a lot of players who have problems to understand the current systems and mechanics and they wanted it easier. Removing the synergies and complicating everything else is not the way to suit these players.
    I had the impression of spending more time in the menus than shooting things, managing and improving the items seems to take much longer with the new system. Especially modding a weapon took longer and I can hardly imagine that the menu control with gamepads is pleasant.

    This system must be revised in my opinion and simplified. There are too many things that influence each other but it's barely visible to the players. The game has never explained anything and the system at now is counterintuitive and illogical. We should be able to see exactly what affects the values of our item and how it does it.
    If we don't feel we can control our power, why should we join the grind?

    The Weapon Level ... I wonder, is it possible to get a drop with a weapon level above my EGO ? So that I can't equip my newest drop? Or what is it good for?

    ... I like (in principal!) some ideas of the new system but I think it is not yet thought out and still needs a lot of work.
    I would like to think that Trion really takes note of our feedback.
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  9. #9
    Member acidman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neutronenstern View Post
    I think this system is way too complicated. I don't think many beta testers have understood and tested it.
    I agree with you !

    Why should/must I use a green weapon , which has far more power and stats than a blue or purple one ?
    Where is the difference between the particular grenades ? Is a green 500 better than a purple 400 ? idk ?! The color stands for what ?
    And in the weapon enhancement you'll click your mouse-button to death (and not by killing enemies )
    Why there are several salvage types and why must I click 1000 times in the salvage screen to enhance the weapon?
    Isn't it possible to make a shortcut "right mouse button - select all" ???

  10. #10
    I didn't really get enough weapons to drop to realize that rarity didn't affect the bonus roll amounts. Nor did I see that rarity had no other influence on the gear. It did seem like the one OJ I got (auto fragger) had higher bonuses than my greens and blues I was getting but it wasn't by too much. It was in the 30.00s for each roll at base.

    I didn't have as much of an opinion on the weapon enhancing at this point because we still don't know how it'll be in the end game. Though as complex as the system is... I feel like there isn't much that it is offering. Certainly not as much in relation to how much is going on and the complexity. It did feel like to me that enhancement was meant to be an end game thing.

    Quality, or Tier level as it's referred as here, not sure what to think about that either. I did find it funny that they wanted to have us deal with less RNG yet this looks like RNG on top on RNG to me. I feel like this is another thing meant for end game... grinding for the top end loot. I did see it go up with rarity but I didn't notice it going up when I enhanced.

    But for closed beta... we pretty much had to enhance purples/oj weapons to max to level up our power rating any. If it's like that for full game people gonna get turned off for sure.

    Weapon rolls certainly need looked at. I felt like I wasn't getting the percents of bonus it said I was getting in the bonus rolls (there's UI issues here as well) but a 25.00 damage roll would give me more like 5% damage. The % amounts of these rolls need to be adjusted in relation to the different types of weapons. As of right now... the amounts are the same for everything and every roll. Clip Size, for example, is a problem one with this current system of rolls. It's only give like 5 extra shots for ARs, and for snipers/pistols/shotguns, you'd be lucky to get 2 extra shots.

    Rarity needs to matter a bit more though. Either through the bonus rolls or through a slight passive stat boost like in the first iteration of Defiance.
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