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  1. #81
    Member DEATHBRINGER210's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Light Energy View Post
    Yeah ... nothing really stands out or has much personality IMHO.

    Hmm ... I think it's a sorry state of affairs if anything that seems powerful or fun would be labelled OP and then nerfed. I think all those arcade games I used to play would have been as dull as ditch water if all the "super" moves were nerfed. And I haven't seen many shows or movies where the protagonists complain that their weapons "are too powerful" . Not everyone has the Demolitionist class anyway.



    Oh ... so which is better or stronger? 1 or 3?

    I think Sorcerer is referring to Volge Boomerang gun:

    From this steam (around 8 m 30 s): https://www.twitch.tv/videos/262771270

    But I think that is something totally different - it's the one that shoots the swirling energy blast that Viscera's like to knock players over with. Nothing like that existed in the original game and it is unrelated to the cold fire Volge weapons players could use.
    warmaster loot weapons are what he means.

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Light Energy View Post
    It would be interesting to see what they think, if they now tried the original on PC.


    That's the thing ... I don't think 2050 is necessarily and inherently more stable because of the software ... it's just because the older generation consoles have very limited RAM etc by today's standards.




    That is a big factor in how Defiance performs on those systems, especially compared to most (modern) PCs. The original game is pretty stable on PC in my experience (barring the occasional blip) - I would not have played it as much if I was disconnected as often as the old consoles were.

    The stability (of 2050) on current generation consoles comes predominantly from their hardware (and having to meet their [64-bit] standards), not the software alone. We have seen the stability of the software when the July patch was released and then almost immediately recalled.

    On PC ... personally I actually find the performance of 2050 is slightly worse: because it seems more data is having to load it, actually takes longer for enemies to become visible for me. Reducing the visual settings to their lowest made little difference in this regard.

    I wouldn't suggest just emulation. I think it might have been possible to iron out more bugs, to make the game more stable and to retain far more of the original ... and to make it available to the current generation consoles. It might have taken a bit longer, more money or more "man hours", but then 2050 might have been more popular with the existing players. Some "design choices" for 2050 were not just about cutting costs: for example, it seems to me that they reduced the overall accuracy of weapons so that the special accuracy perks are more impactful.

    In 2050 I would miss all the gear in my original inventory ... but if (for example) more weapon types (e.g. mass cannons) had been kept in the game, I would have been happier. For me, mass cannons are part of Defiance - they were one of the fun weapons that spurred me to continue playing, when I saw them being used by others. They could have made the explosive VFX a toggle-able setting etc as people have suggested before, that would still help generally with some 2050 weapons.
    To me, the standard rocket launchers in 2050 seem so slow and have little splash damage - they seem really underwhelming: it feels dumb, unrealistic and boring that a bullet from a pistol is more effective than a rocket.

    Another example: I was happy when I got El Diablo in the original ... but in 2050 it seems like some crummy non-descript Nomad SMG . I salvaged my 2050 version the same day it dropped ... and yet I still have my El Diablo in the original game.

    It appears weapons have been made plainer to make the class perks and abilities more desirable.
    can you explain why so many other mmo game servers are so stable then? on xbox and ps3.

  3. #83
    Member Light Energy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hit the Deck View Post
    "1" since the numbers are ranks
    Thanks for the info .

    Rank 1 is the best, you say? Hmm

    So what is rank 0?!

    There is no universal rule or consistency about this. It will vary from place to place, person to person, country to country. A key is almost essential for any chart or graph

    For example: look at the 'new' numbering system they have for GCSEs they have in the UK:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-40826391

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by DEATHBRINGER210 View Post
    can you explain why so many other mmo game servers are so stable then? on xbox and ps3.
    I can't really give a complete answer in some bite-sized forum post, but I will say that it suggests other MMOs that you may be referring to simply either:
    1) have lower CPU or memory overheads / requirements in their operation. I'm not just talking about the quoted 'specs' – I mean what they actually use in practice.
    2) are better optimized for those consoles.

    It depends on how much is client side, how much is server side, how much data needs to be processed, the CPU load, the amount of active memory required and many other things.

    One aspect to note is that Rift was PC only. That was Trion's MO: Defiance was built on PCs and all 3 platforms share the same base code. So they made Defiance to run on a decent PC for 2013 ... and then they had to squash it into Xbox 360 and PS3 limitations. If they only released it on PC ... it would not have been as restricted (I have read an interview with an original developer which states this). It's obvious when you consider, for example, that PCs have more buttons (keyboard and mouse) and more options when it comes to designing the UI.

    Each platform doesn't have a completely separate code base – and I suspect that because the code was not built from the bottom up to be fully optimized on each console, it has memory leaks etc that cause frequent disconnects and the other issues seen on those systems.
    It can be a downside if you try to (re)use the same code across multiple platforms.

    Edit: Here is an excerpt from that 2015 interview (I found it very informative)
    Quote Originally Posted by AverageJoe - Developer Interview
    If Defiance was a purely PC game, how would you change the UI? Same for if Defiance was a purely console game?
    As a team we come back around to this topic about once a month. Usually the conversation ends in a collective, resigned sigh.
    If we could focus on just PCs, the first change would be to add tooltips to our buttons so that simply hovering the mouse cursor over a button would give you an idea of what to do with that button.
    Personally, I would love to have micro tutorials all throughout the game. Visually, I’d imagine EGO appearing next to some of the larger dialogs and screens in our game cheerfully explaining to the player how to interact with the screens.
    Because of consoles a lot of the actions that are listed out as rows in a table (like the Salvage Matrix’s actions) require double clicks. Personally, it took me a long time to figure out that I had to double-click the Salvage Matrix action choices listed underneath the selected weapon to get to the point where I could start an action.
    If it were just a PC game, Defiance would behave like any other desktop app in this regard and I would have intuitively known how to add mod slots to the guns I was picking up.
    As another example, I was tasked with adding a keybinding for gamepads that would triggered the in-game Store screen. There are so few keybindings available for the gamepad that a big part of the task was searching for a usable key combination. It took me forever to figure out how to add those gamepad keybindings for the Store to Defiance.
    If it had just been a PC game it would have taken me no more than an hour. As for the gamepad, it’s still not where I would want it to be and remains on my growing lists of things to do.
    Having said my peace about the constraints of developing for console, I’m glad that those constraints force the UI of Defiance to some new directions that you wouldn’t typically associate with an MMO.
    For instance, there’s no action bar at the bottom which is one less piece of UI to be distracted by. There’s a lot of real estate for the game itself.
    Instead of having to figure out how to see behind countless chat and quest dialogs that eat up the screen real estate of other games you can actually see what’s going on in Defiance (especially in situations where you are running the game in smaller resolutions).
    If it were a PC only game you would see UI panels for quests and actions and friends lists and …etc. I believe that consoles are the driving force behind Defiance’s unique approach to MMO UIs.
    It explains many things, like why we annoyingly have to double-click on many UI elements.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Light Energy View Post
    I can't really give a complete answer in some bite-sized forum post, but I will say that it suggests other MMOs that you may be referring to simply either:
    1) have lower CPU or memory overheads / requirements in their operation. I'm not just talking about the quoted 'specs' – I mean what they actually use in practice.
    2) are better optimized for those consoles.

    It depends on how much is client side, how much is server side, how much data needs to be processed, the CPU load, the amount of active memory required and many other things.

    One aspect to note is that Rift was PC only. That was Trion's MO: Defiance was built on PCs and all 3 platforms share the same base code. So they made Defiance to run on a decent PC for 2013 ... and then they had to squash it into Xbox 360 and PS3 limitations. If they only released it on PC ... it would not have been as restricted (I have read an interview with an original developer which states this). It's obvious when you consider, for example, that PCs have more buttons (keyboard and mouse) and more options when it comes to designing the UI.

    Each platform doesn't have a completely separate code base – and I suspect that because the code was not built from the bottom up to be fully optimized on each console, it has memory leaks etc that cause frequent disconnects and the other issues seen on those systems.
    It can be a downside if you try to (re)use the same code across multiple platforms.
    so its the ps3 and xbox fault . the servers cant handle players. so many other games are on pc ,xbox ,and ps3. and dont have the server issues . what limitations? when others games server run so good? where is a link to this "original developer interview " ?

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by true View Post
    The 1st word in your name says it all. Your a ZERO. Quit the HATE. sayonara good bye!!!!!!!!
    Oh dear such a well thought out response using logic and reason..... Not!! Thanks for the Adhomin. Pretty much all Trion blow hards are capable of.

  7. #87
    Member Light Energy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DEATHBRINGER210 View Post
    so its the ps3 and xbox fault.
    What is? I already mentioned earlier that those systems do have rather low RAM compared to modern standards. The Xbox 360 was launched in 2005 ... 13 years ago. General technological progress and Moore's law has been effect since then.

    Quote Originally Posted by DEATHBRINGER210 View Post
    the servers cant handle players. so many other games are on pc ,xbox ,and ps3. and dont have the server issues .
    It depends on the quality of Trion's servers and their network capabilities.

    Quote Originally Posted by DEATHBRINGER210 View Post
    where is a link to this "original developer interview " ?
    I added it to my earlier post.

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Light Energy View Post
    What is? I already mentioned earlier that those systems do have rather low RAM compared to modern standards. The Xbox 360 was launched in 2005 ... 13 years ago. General technological progress and Moore's law has been effect since then.

    It depends on the quality of Trion's servers and their network capabilities.

    I added it to my earlier post.
    that trion servers crash a lot, and that they always be putting stability fixes for their servers.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Light Energy View Post
    I can't really give a complete answer in some bite-sized forum post, but I will say that it suggests other MMOs that you may be referring to simply either:
    1) have lower CPU or memory overheads / requirements in their operation. I'm not just talking about the quoted 'specs' – I mean what they actually use in practice.
    2) are better optimized for those consoles.

    It depends on how much is client side, how much is server side, how much data needs to be processed, the CPU load, the amount of active memory required and many other things.

    One aspect to note is that Rift was PC only. That was Trion's MO: Defiance was built on PCs and all 3 platforms share the same base code. So they made Defiance to run on a decent PC for 2013 ... and then they had to squash it into Xbox 360 and PS3 limitations. If they only released it on PC ... it would not have been as restricted (I have read an interview with an original developer which states this). It's obvious when you consider, for example, that PCs have more buttons (keyboard and mouse) and more options when it comes to designing the UI.

    Each platform doesn't have a completely separate code base – and I suspect that because the code was not built from the bottom up to be fully optimized on each console, it has memory leaks etc that cause frequent disconnects and the other issues seen on those systems.
    It can be a downside if you try to (re)use the same code across multiple platforms.

    Edit: Here is an excerpt from that 2015 interview (I found it very informative)
    It explains many things, like why we annoyingly have to double-click on many UI elements.
    [/INDENT]
    all i got out of that "original developer interview " is they are mainly a pc game co. and they have had very little experience building ps3 and xbox servers that are any good.

  10. #90
    Member Light Energy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DEATHBRINGER210 View Post
    that trion servers crash a lot, and that they always be putting stability fixes for their servers.
    The answer could be a whole combination of factors.

    Perhaps the Trion servers for consoles are not ideally constructed / configured ... and maybe that combined with memory leaks / memory overflow on the client side, it causes an avalanche effect.
    Maybe if a whole bunch of console players suddenly “crit”, that dumps a lot of erroneous data on the server and it just borks (To Bork is to break in almost any way. can be used to completely replace "break" esp. pertains to rendering software done (aka borked, broken) or completely unusable, similar to bricking as well).

    We already know that there are issues with processing player inventories, especially when many players occupy the same virtual geographic area in the game. Updating all the inventories of players, at the end of a major event arkfall used to cause disconnects (sometimes even on PC).
    Perhaps more of this data processing is handled on the console servers (since the consoles have little RAM to spare)?

    At the end of the day ... we can only speculate, there is no way of knowing for sure since we don't have direct to their servers and all the code.

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