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  1. #1
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    Patch notes - PvE or PvP?

    I'm starting this thread, because I see something starting with this latest batch of patch notes that Sledgehammer posted that bothers me:

    First off, what doesn't bother me is all the bug fixes. Thats a LOT of bugs, and thankfully most of them are small, but it's good to see them fixed.

    What *DOES* bother me is the rampant use of the nerf-bat on just about every weapon out there. LMG's are taking a hit, sawed off shotguns are taking a hit, grenade launchers are taking a hit, rocket launchers (already underpowered for many versions) are taking a hit, and INFECTORS are taking a hit.

    Now, on the surface, this may seen ok to some people, but to me, it's totally the opposite. These changes really do nothing more than NERF the PvE players and favor the PvP crowds constant complaints on the forums and in game.

    Devs.. is this REALLY the way we want Defiance to go from the start? Do we REALLY want this game to be nothing more than a console-ported-PvP extravaganza?

    Now mind you all, I don't partake in PvP.. it's not my cup of tea. And I sure don't mind that other people do. However, when the complaints of the PvP crowd (most of which, sorry to say, are UNFOUNDED) start to affect the playability of the PvE and RPG-based players, then there's a problem with the way things are being developed. Sorry to say it, but it's true. Now do I feel for those of you who are getting one shotted in the back by someone with a tweaked out sawed off and cloak? Nope.. sure don't. You decided to play PvP, deal with it. Learn to beat it. Take the EGO powers that limit damage from behind AND the others that reveal cloaked players. Do I feel bad for you because some uber-noob with a rocket launcher and a penchant for bunny hopping keeps swatting you down like the little insignificant bug? Nope.. sure don't.. learn his patterns, learn to run and gun, and pwn his backside like the nooblet he is.

    If these "balances" in PvP are going to become the issue in this game, to the point that the Dev's are going to constantly Nerf PvE players, then this game is going to rapidly become a wasteland instead of a success. We have seen this happen previously in other games, and we've seen the results. Personally, this is not something I want to see happen in Defiance.

    The Devs need to take note of this, and there have been on other threads, a multiple litany of ways to address this problem, including making weapons specifically for pvp, which would address the PvP balance vs PvE balance issue entirely.

    What are your thoughts....?

  2. #2
    Having the same ruleset for both PvE and PvP is a disaster waiting to happen. In a perfect PvP environment, everyone has the exact same weapons, equipment, health, etc. Using those same rules in PvE can make for a boring game, and removes potential for character progress. The better solution would be to create static gun loadouts for people in PvP.

    I can only speak for myself, but I bought this game for PvE. If I wanted a large scale PvP fest, I'd be playing Planetside still. If I wanted fast action 6v6 deathmatch, I'd already be playing one of the other thousand FPS/TPS games already out on the market.

    I'm hoping this isn't a sign to come. I'm hoping that the PvE 'fun' side of things won't be hamstrung by how closely balanced the devs are going to make the PvP side of the game.

  3. #3
    Senior Member armedpoop's Avatar
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    I made a thread about the whole seperate pvp and pve weapin stats and just destroyed. So i agree with OP on that matter, but as for your opinion on pvp and how weapons feel, your opinion was completely invalidated by the FACT that you stated you DO NOT play pvp sooooo yeaa. I do agree that the nerf is way too much.
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    By telling people "Its a Beta" on the Defiance BETA forums you're just making yourself look like an idiot.
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  4. #4
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    history has shown that games that start gearing more towards PVP over PVE = die

  5. #5
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    Probably the only thing that can kill this game off in a couple of months. Balancing it for PVP.
    And even if they do, the PVP is still very mediocre at best. Even after the nerf, the most efficient way to go about things is cloak/blur + shotgun. That is not going to change. It is just spectacularly dull. There might be some hope for Shadow Wars. It has the potential to be fun. I wish they had focused on it more rather than the generic nonsense that we got.

    Balancing your PVE loot fest of a game over PVP is a series of terribly stupid ideas and I got a bad feeling the Devs are going to go ahead in some sort of deluded attempt to think they can get a slice of the pie from the market, especially the console side.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Era's Avatar
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    You realize that Shadow Wars takes place on the world map and you HAVE to balance the game for both PvP and PvE simultaneously, right?

  7. #7
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    I'd agree with you if we had the numbers to back it, but I don't so I'm going to assume the damage was too high all around on Sawed Offs and the LMG needed tweaking.

    Not to mention it's Day 9 of the game. Give it a month before you claim the direction of the game.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Pasha's Avatar
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    I see there is yet another futile PvP "balance" attempt.

    If PvP will be removed tomorrow - I won't notice the difference because I don't play it. When weapons will be nerfed further - I'll quit because I already cannot finish any "kill boss in under X minutes" co-op achievements and barely can do quests solo.

    Probably that was main idea - to force players to leave in 2 weeks for the sake of saving server resources for new wave of customers.

  9. #9
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    "I don't play PvP, but I can say that all the PvP complaints are UNFOUNDED"

    To paraphrase the OP ^

  10. #10
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    I have to agree that the bug fixes were massive, and I have rarely seen bug fixes of that size from any game. I have to give Trion a cyber high-five for that massive fix. I also have to hope and pray that the weapon balances come from a shortage of time and Trion will do it correctly in the future.

    With all of that said, I have said the same thing about a lot of games that do this. I am not sure why PvP always seems to steal the attention, maybe PvPers are just bigger whiners or something else. If a game is going to have separate PvP and PvE systems then they need to separate them completely and call it a day. There needs to be changes to how a weapon works PvP and how that same can work PvE, a weapon that is very useful in PvE gets nerfed because of the PvP QQers can make that weapon completely useless in PvE, and in my opinion that is just wrong. If you look at games like Warhammer Online that game was almost purely focused on PvP so it made it easier for them to keep gear in check and balance; however, this is not WAR and the PvP and PvE system are kept separate so the balancing should be kept separate.

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